I know the American culture sees God as, He hates sin, but loves the sinner. In light of Ps 5:5 and believing the Bible is the word of God I have had to conform my mind to this. Something else that might be of good is a video on Youtube of David Platt about God loves and hates sinners. Any other thoughts?
"For God so loved the world..."
world - Greek: Kosmos
This is the same word for which we derive the word "cosmos" or "universe." This seems to indicate a far-reaching love rather than just a remnant that is "chosen" by God to be saved.
After all, we are all sinners.
hi, Jesus said that if you had seen Him you have seen the Father. Jesus spent His life with sinners and loved them wherever He went. He hated the pompous religeous people (scribes, pharisees,saduceesetc.)He said that He came not to condemn the world but to save those who believe into Him.He died for sinners like you and me.jimp
The problem with most of Jesus loves sinners preaching is, they miss to stress on the point of Repentance that Jesus preached to sinners. The problem in preaching Repentance is, you have to tell the people what sins they need to repent from, and this will hurt people and hence the reduction in number of converts.
Jesus forgives only Repented sinners. If you take repentance out then faith is of zero value. Repentance is required every time we fall. The Prodigal son had to turn back to his father from pigs food, then only Father came running after him. When the prodigal son was longing for Pigs food, was the father loving him? Yes he loved his son. But did he give him his inheritance in his (fathers) house? No he did not until the son turned away from pigs food.
The father in the Prodigal son's story is the representation of God the father.
InLove, I would agree with you that God both loves and hates sinners simultaneously. More than once we read, "Holy,holy,holy is the LORD God Almighty", not love,love,love. Holiness is His highest, ultimate attribute. All His other attributes must be seen in light of His holiness.
While God's Word declares that God is love, it also declares that His holy wrath remains on all those that remain unrepentant. Those two truths are crystal clear in the Bible. What troubles me is when I see Christians trying to deny either one of those clear truths of the Bible. If someone is shown clearly from scripture that God's wrath remains on unbelievers, for them to still deny it is concerning. Likewise any who would deny God's love.
The fact that so many churches and Christians today deny God's wrath is to me just another sign of the days of apostasy we are living in.
hi, repentance is turning the rule of your life from your rule to His rule and dying to self gal 2:20 wrath of the father was poured out on Jesus at the cross Is.53.rom.8:1.God IS love.he that knoweth not love, knoweth not God.Jesus dealt with the sin problem at the cross and conquered sin ,death,and hell for us who believe. we live under a new and BETTER covenant then the jews of the old for He no longer covers sin ,but removes it. we are a new creation with BETTER promises. all this because of the greatest gift of Love ever given;Jessus and Him crucified.jimp for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believe into Him shall have zoe (everlasting life.)
If you take repentance out then faith is of zero value. Repentance is required every time we fall. The Prodigal son had to turn back to his father from pigs food, then only Father came running after him. When the prodigal son was longing for Pigs food, was the father loving him? Yes he loved his son. But did he give him his inheritance in his (fathers) house? No he did not until the son turned away from pigs food.
Well said.
"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”-John 3:36
I don't think it's safe to say that that verse applies only to Old Testament times? Nowhere in God's Word are we told that God changes His attituded toward unrepentant sinners. The cross shows how serious God takes sin. He does not punish the sin but the sinner in hell if he does not repent and trust in Christ.
There are so many New Testament verses that warn about God's wrath.
Jesus said, “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!-Luke 12:4-5
"26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."-Hebrews 10:26-31
"6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”-Rev.14:6-7
“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."-Prov.9:10
"In mercy and truth Atonement is provided for iniquity; And by the fear of the LORD one departs from evil."-Prov.16:6
Edit: included the scripture reference(John 3:36) after first verse posted.
hi, then only the father would go meet him.you are dead wrong in putting more emphasis on what the son did or did not do (which the father did not know about) than the love of the father for his son.MERCY is what the new covenant is all about.jimp
I remember that decades ago it was common for Christians to say to a stranger "Jesus Loves You". But after a while it changed. I guess they figured out that if you tell a lost person that Jesus Loves You and just leave it at that, the lost sinner would get comfortable in there lost sinful condition. So it changed to "Jesus Loves You and has a wonderful plan for your life". Or perhaps you have heard the other one, "Jesus loves you where you are at but loves you too much to leave you there". These revised sayings go a long way in getting the message across that Jesus loves you, but not your sin.
I've heard Christians point out that the Bible says that God hated Esau. I suppose they want to justify there own hatred for the lost. I think that even though Esau was a real human being, in the Bible he is a Type. In this case he represents the flesh (and the self-life) so that is why hate is directed toward him.
The tension in the dual truth of God hating sin but loving the sinner is so great that it beggars belief. Except for the fact that Jesus the sinless only begotten Son of God died to save lost sinners when he hung on that Cross.
As Christians, it is us who are to hate the sin and love the sinner and have no feelings of hatred toward them. Only God has the authority to hate both the sin and sinner.
"Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord."-Romans 12:19
One important way to express love to lost souls is by sharing the gospel with them, warning them of God's wrath, just like the prophets, our Lord Jesus, and the apostles and disciples did, as well as sharing the good news of God's mercy and grace with them. Hope that wasn't too long of a sentence :)
God hates the sinner as much as the sin. Sometimes we view things from the wrong perspective. God is holy, He has the right to hate the sinner. There's nothing wrong with that. Or dont you know man is sinful?
hi, if God hates the sinner why would He give His only begottenSon to die in the sinners behalf?why would He pour out His wrath upon Jesus as He bled and died on the cross for sinners? that is the greatest gift of love ever given. in that one act on the cross, Jesus conquered sin, death,and the grave. He did not cover our sin but took away the sin for us. Jesus said that He did not come to condemn the world but through Him the world might be saved. the world was nothing but sinners from then til now. the statement that God hates sinners has no place in the gospel message because it is an obvious mistatement of the truth.God is love. i can hear Him saying "niether do I condemn you, Go and sin no more.jimp
hi, we can try to reason away the clear teaching of scripture on God's wrath from the both the old and new testaments, but it won't change that truth one bit. To deny the reality of God's wrath upon unrepentant sinners after being shown that truth clearly from the New Testament is dangerous ground. It is border-line heresy at best and complete apostasy at worse.
Jimp,
Please understand that I simply stated what I believe. If you disagree,(which I think you do) there's nothing wrong with that.
" if God hates the sinner why would He give His only begottenSon to die in the sinners behalf? why would He pour out His wrath upon Jesus as He bled and died on the cross for sinners?"
In one word: grace. There wasn't anything I did to give God a reason to save me from the wrath I deserve.
hi, take a look at how Jesus treated the sinners He met in the bible and you cannot find any hatred. if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.it is impossible for Love to hate.jimp
Okay, I'll play the game of logic or reason for a moment. If God is not wrath-filled or angry with the wicked everyday like Psalm 7:11 tells us, why does He cast them into eternal hell-fire? Again, He does not only punish the sin but the sinner if he does not repent.
The word wrath means fierce anger and it is found throughout the new testament in reference to God. Why would you want to deny something so clear in God's Word?
Many folk make up a nice santa clause god in their mind(an idol)who has no wrath, because it makes them feel comfortable in their sins. That is the way of the world, false religions, cults, and apostate Christianity. Don't go that route which leads to the damnning of your soul.
Embrace the one true living God of the Holy Bible. He offers mercy through the cross of Christ, but will by no means clear the unrepentant sinner if he dies without repentance.
hi, because they were condemned already. the rejection of the provision of the cross,even the eating of the wrong tree and rejecting the tree of Life.we condemn ourselves and sentence ourselves by not putting on Jesus.God does not hate (hate is evil) God is not evil.God is more than just...he is merciful.that is not hate.think about hating your own children of which i have8...i have seen mothers and fathers go get on a bus to go to a prison every week to visit someone who tortured a man to death. if you being human will give gifts that are good, how much more shall your heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask.jimp
hi, take a look at how Jesus treated the sinners He met in the bible and you cannot find any hatred. if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.it is impossible for Love to hate.jimp
hi, Jesus' message was not all about God's love. What did He do in the temple to those who sold religion? Jesus warned about God's wrath more than any other preacher who has walked this earth. Don't just take one side of Jesus and run with it while ignoring the rest of Him. The Jesus of the Bible is far different than most people have in mind. Jesus is coming back in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God -2Thess.1:7-9. Many will fall under the wrath of the Lamb. Read Revelation 1 and you get a picture of the real Jesus. Don't worship a false Jesus who is only about love. Embrace the real Jesus of the Holy Bible.
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