Satan's lie about inward prayer....Ancient Deception.

I wanted to talk again about lying prayer, and true prayer, and what the difference is, and the dangers of contemplative prayer; what it really is, and how it is divorced from anything holy.

I believe that CP is the motor that charges Babylon itself...and though the Roman Catholics have carried the torch in the West....Contemplative prayer has been paramount for thousands of years before the RCC; before the cross of Christ.

It, in practice, is an "inward gazing", a "stillness" to capture the void, a nothingness that enables one to discover, as Madame Guyon confessed......"The God who was always there....within me."

Her concept of being born again, was discovering him within her nature....and the process was "emptying herself"... as were all the mystics, along with her counterparts, the Gurus and holy men of Hindi-India.

At 19 she met a priest who told her: “It is, madame, because you seek without what you have within."

"Accustom yourself to seek God in your heart, and you will there find Him.”

Guyon wrote of no conversion, only a presupposition that Christ was always in her heart.

"Thus she started her incredible lifelong journey within. She responded to the Lord,

“Thou wast in my heart, and demanded only a simple turning of my mind inward, to make me perceive Thy presence. ... The kingdom of God is within you.”

There were, and are a plethora; a great number of these mystics, as there are today...in a variety of religions. Madame Guyon is just one of the more famous ones.

And so Contemplative prayer resonates the same drum beat with each and every mystic...and as the RCC championed her in the West, Buddhism and Hinduism, Sufi-ism and various Pagan cults Laud her in the EAST....Especially the Hindi Gurus...and the Tibetan Buddhists of today.

It's practices are identical, involving guided imagery, and the focus on a sound, or ritualistic chant,and bead repetitions. Off to an inward journey you go, seeking enlightenment. The end, is a demonic bondage to the lie...and a searing of the soul.

One of the more famous modern movements today, the IHOP clans, who practice these ancient methods; naming them as Christian..[ they are not, nor have never been..] is the prayer movement...with IHOP being the largest "Protestant" one.

There are many non-christian and RCC Cloisters where one can learn and practice these Babylonian methods...and call it with other nomenclature.

As Christians, we pray to a God seated Above, outwardly, through a Savior God, the Son, seated there at His Right hand....not to our fallen natures within our corrupt heart.

This lie has led millions and millions astray, and sets people below the seat of Satan rather than at the throne of God, and must be avoided, while we as true born-again Believers must learn how to intercede and touch the face of God.

I wish someone would explain to me what this is suppose to stand fer trekker.

International House of Prayer

The methodology employed by the IHOP for encouraging people to pray amounts to a demonic invitation. Its complete madness and foolishness.

Madame Guyon said: "Accustom yourself to seek God in your heart, and you will there find Him.”

Notice how it doesn't say, "It shall be in you". It says, "is within you". And He wasn't even saying this to His disciples, He was saying to it to a bunch of stiff necked sect.

Did you know that the Magi were mystics? And they sought signs from the stars being Astrologers and followers of Zoroaster. The Magi were what the book of Daniel calls, Magicians. Yet, here God is showing them a star (Increasing their belief in looking to the stars, talk about adding to their deception eh?) since they had an ability to read the stars, and manipulate the fate that the stars foretold, (we can see why kings favoured them).

How does one pray in the Spirit if not by inner contemplation?

[When we think of the word inner contemplation we think about] Buddhist contemplation, or Zen contemplation. Well, we're only dealing with Christic contemplation here, which is nothing less than a deep love communion with the triune God. "By depth here we mean a knowing loving that we cannot produce but only receive. It is not merely a mentally expressed "I love You". It is a wordless awareness and love that we ourselves cannot initiate or prolong. The beginnings of this contemplation are brief and frequently interrupted by distractions. The reality is so unimposing that one who lacks instruction can fail to appreciate what exactly is taking place. Initially infused prayer is so ordinary and unspectacular in the early stages that many fail to recognize it for what it is. Yet with generous people, that is, with those who try to live the whole Gospel wholeheartedly and who engaged in an earnest prayer life, it is common."

"I think that there is as much of a difference between saying prayerful words and truly praying as there is a difference between singing a hymn and truly worshiping God. It is like getting past the curtain of this life and into the Most Holy Place within the Holy of Holies.

Anyway, perhaps BrotherTom (or someone else) would like to start a thread about the meaning of prayer. I think that it is desperately needed in this day and hour."..Chris. ***************************************

"I would truly and sincerely love to hear what brotherthom also has to say about prayer...So then I can be edified rather than turned away...

In hope
Michelle***************************************

I think that you Chris, touched the heart of the matter; and the non-religious reality that every Christian who ever was who has learned to pray, has realized. Prayer is common Union with a Creator who is there.

One day I broke through, and learned, just like you Chris, and began to pour my heart out before the Lord. I began a secret Worship life...where worship and intercession and pouring out my soul before the Lord, melded into Spirit and Truth, and realizing that Jesus of Nazareth is ALIVE....and lives a God the Son to intercede as a Mediator to my God who lives on His Throne.

I have been born again from above, and experienced a mighty baptism from above too, and it is this Spirit that has led me into prayer, and a degree of revelation where I hear his voice....and respond...and fail, and respond, and in the middle of it all...I live life...and respond.

Prayer is a path of Union with the will of God and His voice and will, and it is extremely personal and private for me......and it never has nor ever will be something I found within me; but something given to me after I was born again the second time, and always stretches out to see Jesus risen above....and it is He alone who mediates, directs, and deserves my worship and focus alone to worship.

Chris and Star of God.....why don't one of you start a thread. Thanks Chris for your post; very edifying as deep rang to deep for me too.....Tom.

Just some more sincere questions for you brothertom...

For you what does it mean to be born again??

When Jesus dies and rose again He says it is for the comforter to come. What does that mean?\\

When the disciples received the Holy Spirit, what was that? Was this inwardly or outwardly?

I am just wondering your thoughts on these things...

Thanks...Star of God******************************

I was born again, and Baptized in the holy Spirit in March of 1972, on a Street Corner in Boulder Colorado. I had just traveled from Florida, with an odd promise from God, that if I travelled there He would save me.

I was a quasi-believer I guess...I just knew that Jesus was right...and somehow believed that He was Savior, but unaware and ignorant of His Lordship, and vaguely aware of His sacrifice...I just thought He was right. It was like I had faith as thin as a strand of my hair.

This was not always so. I spent years in the drug world at the ripe old age of 22, and had already served as a combat Marine in Viet Nam..[ wounded], and had committed atrocities and murder, and generally mocked Christians, and hated God....fornicated and occasionally shot heroin, and did every drug I could find, with a lot of LSD.

It was in this state of mind that I arrived in Boulder, and about 6 hours later I was approached by a group of "shiny people", Jesus freaks, led by a young man I still do not know.

They began to tell me about the 4 spiritual laws, and told me to kneel and receive Jesus...which I wanted to do anyway, and I said something like this; "Lord Jesus forgive me of my sins, and come into my life!"...and then...something like a wind entered me, and I experienced every SIN I had ever committed rush away from me, out of me! and a LOVE above Love possess me deep inside of me.........and I was drunk with Love.

I stood up clean, almost unaware of what had happened to me...and that Spirit that had entered me owned me, as I then began to tell others about being born again, and just said the name of Jesus; and other people would get saved it seemed. I led many people to Jesus those first few weeks.

The Bible became real to me; a living book and I devoured it, as I do yet today.

That Spirit that entered me, began to change me, and I learned to pray to my God who lived above, and from the inside where He lived, I communicated outside to Him on His Throne As MY FAITH GREW....AND HE OWNED ME MORE.

so..in ANSWER TO YOUR INQUIRY, THE HOLY SPIRIT ALWAYS ENTERS US, WHEN WE REPENT AND BELIEVE, AND BECOME A CHILD OF GOD, AND WE EXPRESS OUR FAITH OUTWARDLY WHEN WE WORSHIP HIM WHERE HE LIVES...ON A THRONE IN HEAVEN.

If you have been born again, you will know it, and when and where it happened....just like on your birth certificate.

He has never left me.

If AW Tozer quotes and approves of the mystics-- including Madame Guyon--- that is good enough for me. 

What do you think Jesus was doing for 40 days in the wilderness? tmk

Jeanne Guyon didn’t advocate living the life of a mystic or of practising outward measures in order to accomplish inner realities. Moreover she didn’t expect very may people to experience the things she was writing about. Even for those who she wrote about “experiencing” the depths of Jesus Christ, she believed it would take many years to fully experience it. It stands to reason therefore that any one who takes on the mantle of “mystic” should not expect any benefit any time soon. Moreover such a one had better be prepared to forsake everything including their very soul, according to Madam Guyon. Herein lies the difficulty with mystical writings! They express something that in words is inadequate and impossible to understand in the natural mind. The desire to go that way howsoever you come to conceive of it is fraught with every implication of deception and has proven more dangerous to many than a true benefit of that I feel sure. It is a distraction from the reality of life which few can afford to lay hold off.

Much more likely is the life of a believer accepting the mystery of the Cross-whereon Christ was crucified and in whose body we also are reckoned dead to sin and delivered of the old man through baptism? Seeking to comprehend and experience unity in Christ’s death will serve most believers better than seeking an inner unity that in any event is already fully accomplished. If you are born again you have the life of Christ fully the moment you believed. If you are going to draw inward then expect the outward to become a rag. For such is the inclination of the mystic. On the other hand you could just be content with being a vessel for God and rejoice in the fact that from the inner most part shall flow rivers of living waters. Who said we had to take a swim anyway? Really. Someone please show me where we are encouraged in God’s word to go inward in order to find union with God? That we have union with God must be self-evident or how else could we have been born again from on high?

As for The Lord in the wilderness it had about it no mystery whatsoever. Christ Jesus was then and is now The Word of God made flesh; Only one who is born of God’s Spirit is able to comprehend this and to such a one it is not a mystery but a reality. We do not know the fullness of what happened in the wilderness. We only know its purpose, how it came about and the end of it. Whilst I don’t doubt that hereafter we will all be astonished and amazed by seeing Christ in His fullness we will nevertheless not fail to recognise Him even as we recognise Him now if we indeed do recognise Him; even as He recognises us. Please try to remember that it is revelation and not mystery that informs us. Revelation can in an instant lay waste to your own ideas and in a moment you will be grateful of it. By revelation you can know mysteries as though they were not mysteries at all. I completely and whole-heartedly agree with Tom on this point. Know that God is in you without which knowledge you are not saved, but worship Him in heaven. Worship and prayer is not the same thing but they are inseparable. The omniscience of God comprehended in the inner man is not the same as the Majesty of God comprehended in the heavens by the Spirit. Yet God is one. Being conscious of God inwardly makes for inward prayer. Being in the spirit in heavenly places seated in Christ at the right hand of the Father makes for prayer also in heaven. Both the inward and the Heavenly give rise to true worship and the knowledge of God.

Philippians 4:6,7 "Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication make your request known to God and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Prayer is something that most of us struggle with at one time or another. There is a direct correlation between your walk with the Lord and your prayer life. There can be seasons of dryness, seasons of drought, seasons of abundance, there can be deep dark winters from which we may think we shall not emerge from, all of this is common to every saint.

There are many teachings about prayer, there are a thousand books one could buy that attempt to teach us how to pray properly, or with power, or with might and faith, and yet the truth is as simple as our relationship with Jesus. Prayer is our relationship with God. They are one and the same. If we attempt to separate them then we will get lost. There are no formulas, no secret methods, prayer is being in the presence of God.

When I was a teenager, I had to go to a school that required me to go by train. On the journey home, a guy in my class would get of at the same stop, and, as we lived in the same neighborhood, we would have about a two mile walk to get home. I used to dread that walk home. I did not really know this guy and so we both talked incessantly about anything and everything just so we could avoid any embarrassing silences. As we got to know each other better, there was not such a need to constantly have to think of something to say, and as time went on, we could be peaceful in the silence.

For most of us, we have a concept of prayer that is all about talking. We start of by giving thanks, then we make our requests, we pray for family members and before we know it has become ritualistic and barren. Prayer should be much more like breathing, when was the last time you thought about breathing? Your probably not even conscious of your breathing, yet you do it continually and it sustains you and gives you life, bringing precious oxygen through your lungs, sustaining the very nerve center of your body, your brain. While prayer times and quiet times are good, for many, that is our moments when we connect with God. In the morning and in the evening before we go to bed. If we have neglected His presence all day, our prayer times will not be effective.In our minds, we must take God every where we go, whispering to Him all through the day as we face the challenges, trials and temptations that come with life. Begin to see God everywhere, visualize His presence everywhere you go and you will be amazed at the depth of your relationship that will come. You will not just be talking to Him in your prayer times and quiet times, He will become an integral part of everything that you do.

Each whisper, every Godward thought, every word spoken, each moment of silence spent in His presence is like a musical note to the Lord. The Scriptures refer to the Lord as "He who sits above the circle of the earth." And so He who sits above the circle of the earth, sees each and every one of these musical notes from around the world from the Body of Christ, rising up in a majestic symphony of love and worship and it is a sweet, sweet sound in His ears. This day, become part of that symphony, let your days be filled with thoughts of Him, release whispers of love to add to the music of prayer. Simply whisper the name of Jesus, all throughout the day, remind Him of how much you love Him, thank Him for the day, no matter what kind of day that your having. Rediscover that bond of love and joy and peace that comes simply by being in His presence. When you do this brothers and sisters, your prayer life will change dramatically, but not only your prayer life, your life itself. For when we walk in continual prayer we begin to see the beauty of the Lord everywhere. If it rains, we see His beauty in the raindrops, if the sun shines we see His beauty as the flowers turn themselves around to face the glory of the Son. If it is cloudy we see his beauty break through the clouds in beams of light that remind us that despite the momentary darkness, He is not finished with us and that His light is ready to break through. Pray without ceasing brothers and sisters, it is not a bondage, but a glorious privilege that enables us and empowers us to be overcomers in a dark world that is desperate for the light of love, joy, peace, truth, justice and compassion. If we continue in Him, if we abide, then we will be all of these things and more and our lives will be dynamic testimonies to the glory of the risen Lord.

As I finished writing this, I sense that many who read this are facing "cloudy days," and the light of the Love of Jesus seems to have flown away. I pray that this day the Lord will give you eyes to see beyond the clouds and you will reestablish your connection with Him. I wrote this poem as I flew into Scotland, a country almost continually covered by clouds and darkness.
EVER PRESENT

BEYOND EVERY CLOUD
I KNOW ITS TRUE
THE SUN SHINES BRIGHT
AND THE SKY IS BLUE

IF WE ONLY HAD EYE'S
THAT COULD TRULY SEE
THAT DESPITE HUMAN CHAINS
WE ARE SURELY FREE

SO DO NOT STAND STILL
FROZEN TO THE GROUND
LET YOUR SPIRIT FLY
IN THE AIR TO BE FOUND

AND WHEN THE DARK CLOUDS
THREATEN TO CONSUME
ALWAYS REMEMBER
THAT THERE'S AN EMPTY TOMB

AND THAT JESUS OUR LORD
REIGNS ON HIGH
AN ETERNAL SON
AN ETERNAL BLUE SKY

And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:18-20)

Notice where the songs and prayers are to be made, 'in your heart to the Lord'. This is ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ (in or with the heart). This agrees with 1 Samual 16:7b,... for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. As well as the Psalmist, And the sayings of my mouth shall become good pleasure, and the meditation of my heart is before you always, O Lord, my helper and my redeemer. (Psa. 18:15 NETS from LXX / 19:14 KJV) Here μελέτη is rendered meditation. Both Old and New Testament religious practice included prayer and song in and from the heart. Robert Wurtz II

Arising from the heart, of the heart, make in the heart and a thousand similar expressions will never equate to look into the heart. IHOP models itself intellectually and vainly on what it imagines to be monastic life. Some Americans should remember that some of us live in countries where the monastic life has been around for 1400 years. It wasn't found on a Californian street corner. The IHOP has a paper thin conception of monastic contemplative life hence why it vainly imagines it can produce one.

There are growing numbers of testimonies as to what this IHOM life is really like for some people as they have experienced it on a day to day basis not just a flying visit. Ask yourself one thing brother. Would you allow your daughter or son to join it in community? All the drivel in this world comes out of America. God help us and keep us from America. Oppps too late!