Slandering God's Servants - SI Forums Note

sermonindex Oct 23, 2012

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I wanted to bring again this burden we have on SermonIndex to not sin with our mouths as we type messages in the forums that slander the names of God's servants. To me it is amazing that the enemy can convince so many Christians to speak ill of so many others in the body of Christ and not to busy about the work of the Lord. There is a lost world without Christ and we can argue over so many petty problems and not see our own sin in the meantime. Paul did speak out a few times in the New Testament towards a few individuals that opposed strongly the gospel or who were blatant false teachers.

Yet many of us can calmly and with calculated stroke blacken the name and character of a servant of God who perhaps does not see truth perfectly even and is still growing in grace. My wife brought this quote to my attention without any knowledge of my writing this small forum note: "I would rather play with forked lightning, or take in my hand living wires with their fiery current, than speak a reckless word against any servant of Christ, or idly repeat the slanderous darts which thousands of Christians are hurling on others." - A.B. Simpson

I write these things as reminder for myself firstly because we are all prone to judge others dear saints. I pray that the Lord would pour out His Spirit upon those who participate in the forums and that a beautiful unity and love for others would be expressed. God can make these forums a powerful testimony for His Name as we seek the best for Gods servants and to desire firstly inward purity in our private life's.

I want to also bring to attention the guiding principles for the forums and the point on slandering:

7. SLANDERING OTHERS - We have a zero tolerance on slander, evil-speaking and speaking against a person's character without warrant. 'Slander no one.' / 'to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.' NASB (Titus 3:2). This is a very important biblical principle and we ask that you would especially respect the biblical method of approaching a brother privately (Matthew 18:15). Also there are hundreds of websites in the internet that exclusively post wrong teachings, errors and question the character of Christians, we do not want SermonIndex to be seen as such a ministry and ask that all forum members do not participate in posting in what is wrong. We believe simply that truth dispels errors and to focus on the truth will shine a light into all the darkness.

SermonIndex Community Guiding Principles
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44556&forum=13

Thank you for taking your time to read these things saints, there is such precious washing and cleansing in the blood of Christ for our sins. Christ was struck in the mouth for perhaps the sins of our mouths. May we have a holy reverence for our communication especially when speaking of Gods servants.

May we also pray for each other on the site, for I surely need these prayers to walk in ways that please the Lord (Ephesians 4:1) in this area of my life.

R

rufnrust Oct 23, 2012

Amen. Again, Jesus intercedes, - the devil accuses. Who are we in agreement with?

Ruf

sermonindex Oct 23, 2012

I wanted to post this here, since the Contemplative prayer thread was closed. [ and in it were references to Ihop ]. I agree about unlawful slandering of God's servants....and I think it wrong.

On a personal note, I have a high degree of respect for Mike Bickle, and actually know him. I moved my family and business to KC, and lived a block away from him and was highly committed to the vision there; and participated in prayer there 40 hours a week for years. I would trust Mike with my checkbook and wife; He is a man of great integrity.

But let us not confuse "slander" with pointing out Bad Doctrine, or Heresy, and because a brother once knew the truth, and was honored, does not mean he is incapable of being deceived, as evidently once trusted Diotrophes became.

"I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God."

There is a great falling away occurring, and men are leaving sound doctrine daily, and sometimes it must become personal...as is repeated throughout the bible....specific men who became deceived.

I remember you Greg, and your Quote on a Rick Warren thread, where you stated that......................... "Rick Warren has done more good for the cause of Christ than all the "discernment ministries combined."****[ paraphrased to that effect] which to me....shows a total lack of Godly discernment...and yet....you named a name, didn't you......?

And more recently, You stated that John G. Lake was in effect a heretic, by stating he did not believe in Hell, and wondering why so many people referred to him as a Godly man. Is this not so? ...and when confronted by AbideInHim, and me, Brothertom.[ who have read all written by him and about him]...you just ignored us....but you did not lock the thread, did you?

If heresy is not confronted, it tends to spread like a cancer, and not everyone who names the name of Christ is God's servant....and that get mixed up around here.[sometimes]..and it is this that is dangerous.

I appreciate this site....but it is not all about getting along all the time, and peace is a division of the Truth....which always cuts through the darkness, and divides.

"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three."
JESUS.

And men are involved in this division, but we should not slander the Godly, for sure. Confronting them about false practices and beliefs is another matter, that Jesus and all of the Apostles practiced daily.**********

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.!"...Paul

It is this creed that a true Shepherd must devote himself; not unity and good vibes.

sermonindex Oct 23, 2012

While Tom and I differ on IHOP, I agree with what he is saying in his post. He is 100% correct.

Greg, I love you and respect you. You know this. But another point that needs to be mentioned is that the political banter on this forum has ineed gotten out of control... as it always does here... but I do find a double standard in the midst of it because many of the threads that you or the other mods have locked were started by you. You have posted articles concerning the current political climate here in America, or about whats happening while America is in the middle of election season... and then seem surprised a few days later that it has had the same effect as chum in the water.

I'm not chewing anyone out, or coming against anyone. We are blessed to know men like these mods. I consider several of them to be "friends". I agree with the premise of this thread! I'm just saying that we ALL need to consider what Greg has said here... including Greg and the Mods. We can not start a thread that has a history of turning ugly... and then act surprised and disgusted when it turns ugly.

(I also notice very little is ever posted by the Canadians about Canadian politics. It's always American politics.)

Love you all...

Krispy

sermonindex Oct 23, 2012

Saints,

I am not trying to self-justify myself or am concerned about my reputation but wanted to clear up some of these comments in regard to what I stated in the past:

Rick Warren has done more good for the cause of Christ than all the "discernment ministries combined.

Brother, yes I said something in that vien. My burden in that quote or something slightly different was to express the fact that discernment ministries that point to the darkness and speak evil of many are not doing the will of God. Such ministries seem righteous but are stepping in the place of the devil "accuser" and also stepping in the place of "God" judge. We each have a realm of responsibility in our own walks with the Lord and in our local areas and we are not to be the police of Christendom world-wide, I fell into this trap for a season.

So therefore to conclude my point was that God has problaby used Rick Warren more to bear fruit for His kingdom than all of the discernment ministries that speak evil and show wicked things only to accuse. (One should seperate some godly ministries from this who biblical and gently teach truth and sometimes use an example of error). I trust that helps clear up my thinking in this area so it is not a stumbling block to some.

And more recently, You stated that John G. Lake was in effect a heretic, by stating he did not believe in Hell, and wondering why so many people referred to him as a Godly man. Is this not so?

Brother, I wrote this thread in 2005 and never locked it but simply must have missed the last few posts and never personally responded: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=8606&forum=40&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=0 - I have always thought highly of John G. Lake and still do feel the Lord used him (I have posted an article by andrew strom to this fact manytimes) but did hear his lack of belief in an eternal hell near the end of his ministry. So the question was raised about him my heart not that he was not was he a "heretic" I never actually used that wording.

--

"I would rather play with forked lightning, or take in my hand living wires with their fiery current, than speak a reckless word against any servant of Christ, or idly repeat the slanderous darts which thousands of Christians are hurling on others." - A.B. Simpson

Again I would encourage brothers and sisters to read the guiding principles and the first post in this thread:

7. SLANDERING OTHERS - We have a zero tolerance on slander, evil-speaking and speaking against a person's character without warrant. 'Slander no one.' / 'to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.' NASB (Titus 3:2). This is a very important biblical principle and we ask that you would especially respect the biblical method of approaching a brother privately (Matthew 18:15). Also there are hundreds of websites in the internet that exclusively post wrong teachings, errors and question the character of Christians, we do not want SermonIndex to be seen as such a ministry and ask that all forum members do not participate in posting in what is wrong. We believe simply that truth dispels errors and to focus on the truth will shine a light into all the darkness.

SermonIndex Community Guiding Principles
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44556&forum=13

sermonindex Oct 23, 2012

Thank-you Greg for responding as you did, which frankly increases my respect for you in the matters of integrity, and DO understand the propensity to accuse and devalue the wrong thinker or heretic; and there-by elevate yourself in the process. I am sure that I too have fell into this trap also, as you confessed.

"So therefore to conclude my point was that God has probably used Rick Warren more to bear fruit for His kingdom than all of the discernment ministries that speak evil and show wicked things only to accuse."..Greg.

But, How? can an unsaved liberal one-worlder EVER bare fruit for God? It is impossible.....and discerning evil and error in men posing as Christians is what the Wolf and the false prophet are all about, and as I wrote.....the Holy Shepherd must expose and drive away. Jesus did.

I cannot see how you can deny this, and yes...it does open up a can of worms often....but it is necessary.

"Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

Saying that, I want to let this matter lay if it is alright with you....but encourage you that not all conflict is bad, or unedifying....and there are many "Christian" ministries that are in the process of falling away.

As Tozer said; the WAR is not over the Gospel, but the PURITY of the Gospel.....which Satan is constantly trying to corrupt. We need both; Edifying holy encouragement, and warning and instruction on what is sound doctrine, and what is not. This is the nature of teaching and Exhortation.

sermonindex Oct 23, 2012

Brother, I would ask you to respect the point of this thread is not to debate the points you brought up but rather to consider what was written in the first post. I believe we all need to consider these things and ask the Lord in our private walks how we slander others in a way that does not glorify Christ. Thank you.

S

Sree Oct 23, 2012

Yet many of us can calmly and with calculated stroke blacken the name and character of a servant of God who perhaps does not see truth perfectly even and is still growing in grace.

Brother, I understand that in a body of believers there are babes and there are mature believers. Babes may not know all the truths. But babes should not teach as well. This forum being public lets both babes and mature in Christ to post their thoughts. But if those posted by babes are against the solid teachings of the Bible, then how can one handle it? I do not mean that we should rebuke such posters but we should also let the truth know. What if someone who is a new believer in Christ, comes to SI and reads a thread posted by Babe and gets deceived?

One such example is, whenever someone posts about struggling with a certain kind of sins, there are many posters who do not believe in repentance, advice or teach that you don't need to repent as God has already forgiven the sin you are now struggling with. This is against the word of God. On one side we have Sermons on repentance preached by such God fearing men like Zac Poonen and on these forums we let anyone teach the opposite.

T

Trekker Oct 23, 2012

Likewise shame on anyone who criticizes a discernment ministry, for they are valid servants of the LORD!

Discernment ministries EXPOSE false teachers/heretics, as did the apostle Paul in his day. Discernment ministry saved me, and others, from the very subtle heresies/false teachings of certain heresies so prevalent today, including the tricky tentacles of Oneness Pentacostalism (which denies the Trinity) and which had me in confusion. Heretics (wolves in sheeps clothing) are NOT servants of the LORD but agents of the DEVIL. Paul EXPOSED them, he did not defend them in any way. He even said Let them be accursed. Unity at the expense of Truth is false unity.

R

richrock Oct 23, 2012

Greg,

I for one fully appreciate the terms with which you have stated in your first post. I do agree with them, and if any of my posts have slandered anyone, I will take this opportunity to repent of that slander.

However, like many things in our Christian lives, there exists a fine edged knife between what can be deemed truth according to scripture and what is in fact a clever distortion of the scripture.

Without discernment, and some (carefully reviewed) ministries I will not name, I would still be walking a self-centred, man-pleasing and doctrinally flawed Christian walk, even on many occasions uncertain that I was indeed saved. As much as we are to love our brothers, as much as we are to do good, to help, encourage, we are also to warn. I recall the example given by Paul Washer (whom many here would respect) who describes a child on a railway track. Do you whisper? Do you beckon quietly? Or do you scream "GET OFF THE TRACK!!!!" as the train approaches?

We all have to prayerfully consider what we write, which is also what we say, and even more so - what we are thinking. I am not perfect in this, in fact this is something that the Holy Spirit is challenging me in. To take a step back, think, pray, even breathe - before issuing a response or determining that it is better to walk away.

Sometimes (and there are some occasions in scripture) to call people out, in the expectation of repentance and a return to truth, but we are not to do this so lightly. Other times may call for a quiet word, then to meet together with another brother or sister, then in the congregation (the scripture for these escapes me at present). Also, was it not Paul who said that wolves had crept in unawares?

What I'm trying to get across is that some occasions call for it, but others don't - the ones that don't are the slanderous statements in my understanding.

Unless I am in grave error with this, I will not say any more on this matter. I appreciate this site for it's work in bring much quality teaching, and probably the best (I've found) Christian forum that does not typically degenerate into fights or flame wars. That says much for the Christ-like attitude of the mods and members.

sermonindex Oct 23, 2012

Brothers and sisters,
The spirit of the request from brother Greg is that we be very careful in speaking out against specific ministers and ministries and especially in naming names. Sure there are obvious wolves that "blind Freddy" can notice, but unless I am mistaken, brother Greg doesn't want this site to turn into another "free for all, discernment ministry". There are plenty of other sites who do this, but that is not the direction that brother Greg wants SermonIndex to take.

I don't think brother Greg or most people here think that discernment ministries are wrong and/or unnecessary (although some are way over the top)...but this is a side issue, the topic at hand is for us to be very careful who we speak against. I am guilty of getting over excited in the past and have shouted from the rooftops about certain false teachers and ministries and yes I have named names (not on SI but elsewhere). I have lost friends because of my immaturity and I am grieved because of this. I pray the Lord helps to restore those relationships.

Generally speaking it is not wise to name names and it is never acceptable to slander the name of anyone publicly.

Even if someone asks what do we think about so-and-so, lets speak in generalities and point them to the Truth, for the sake of keeping the unity of the Spirit. Now, all that I write I am speaking in regard to SI...what we do in our own homes and fellowships is another matter.

Its a simple request from SI and if we do our utmost to honor this, the Lord will bless us and build an extraordinary unity among us all.

Mark

sermonindex Oct 23, 2012

Brothers and sisters,
The spirit of the request from brother Greg is that we be very careful in speaking out against specific ministers and ministries and especially in naming names. Sure there are obvious wolves that "blind Freddy" can notice, but unless I am mistaken, brother Greg doesn't want this site to turn into another "free for all, discernment ministry". There are plenty of other sites who do this, but that is not the direction that brother Greg wants SermonIndex to take.
I don't think brother Greg or most people here think that discernment ministries are wrong and/or unnecessary (although some are way over the top)...but this is a side issue, the topic at hand is for us to be very careful who we speak against. I am guilty of getting over excited in the past and have shouted from the rooftops about certain false teachers and ministries and yes I have named names (not on SI but elsewhere). I have lost friends because of my immaturity and I am grieved because of this. I pray the Lord helps to restore those relationships.
Generally speaking it is not wise to name names and it is never acceptable to slander the name of anyone publicly.
Even if someone asks what do we think about so-and-so, lets speak in generalities and point them to the Truth, for the sake of keeping the unity of the Spirit. Now, all that I write I am speaking in regard to SI...what we do in our own homes and fellowships is another matter.
Its a simple request from SI and if we do our utmost to honor this, the Lord will bless us and build an extraordinary unity among us all.
Mark

Brother Mark, you have said it perfectly. Thank you!

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Oct 24, 2012

I think that this reminder is a very good thing to keep in mind.

I know that there is a legitimate gift toward "discernment." However, true discernment will not be short on facts or interpretive of certain points.

A few years ago, there was a debate on Bible translations. One poster repeatedly posted some accusations about certain "member" of the "translation committee" of a particular Bible translation. The accusation was cited from a source that was very biased toward a particular conclusion. The "source" that was cited within that "source" was another biased work.

After spending some time, I learned that most of the works that cited the claim were based upon a single source that was never verified. So, I decided that it was important enough to contact the individuals who were the targets of the accusations.

I actually suspected that the accusation would be true (or partially true) given how it was repeated so often by KJV-only sources. However, I learned that it simply was not true. I actually received an email and phone calls from the translators of that particular version...as well as directly from the individual in question.

This experience, and a few other "verification" issues like it, reinforced the idea that there is often another side to a story -- even if an individual claims to be gifted with discernment.

There are individuals who we can point directly to and say that they erred or proclaimed a false doctrine. I can point to the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics, etc... and point out the poison in their doctrines. Likewise, if a would-be prophet stands up and makes a specific proclamation that never comes to pass, then we can conclude that such a person was a false prophet.

For instance, if a man "prophesies" that the Eastern seaboard of the United States was going to be underwater in the 1990s (which obviously didn't happen), then we can conclude that it was a lie (even if it was inadvertent or the person proclaiming it was "well-meaning").

There is another issue about whether or not we NEED to go about pointing out certain offenses that we find in another man's list of doctrinal views. Are we truly called to point at a man and proclaim him a "heretic" if we disagree with him on a doctrinal issue? Is that "discernment?"

Whenever possible, we need to verify what others say. I don't think that anyone -- "prophet" or "non-prophet" (pardon my pun) -- would be afraid of someone questioning or testing their words or proclamations. After all, a disagreement is not necessarily an indictment of "heresy."

Interestingly, many accusations are difficult to verify. Why? Many of the preachers who are pointed out in threads on the SermonIndex forums are long since dead. Martin Luther? Dead. C.S. Lewis? Dead. The early Anabaptists? Dead. Wesley Brothers? Dead. Charles Finney? Dead.

As a result, we can't approach these men for clarity. For instance, I know that Charles Finney has been accused of having embraced certain things. "Evidence" (gathered mostly from books that he did not write but are supposedly taken from his notes...often posthumously) is pointed out, scrutinized and a verdict is rendered. Yet, other things that Finney wrote seems to contradict claims about what he actually believed.

Regardless, I agree with what Brother Greg has said here. SermonIndex was never intended to be a place where we scrutinize preachers and sift through each and every statement that they make. I love brother Greg...and hold him as a dear brother in Christ. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that we agree on EVERY issue.

If we were so motivated, I suspect that we could sift through EVERY believer on SermonIndex with a fine-toothed comb and find something that we think is "wrong" either in actions, dress or beliefs. However, I just don't think that this is what God has called us to do. It certainly isn't spiritual "discernment" -- but theological "deduction" (or scrutiny).

I can sit down with believers who disagree with certain issues. I would love to have been alive at the time of Finney, Luther, Tozer or other dead men and see what it is that they actually believed...or if they were as pliable with their doctrinal beliefs (maturing as they matured in Christ) as many of us have been. Were they the saints/sinners that people claim they were? Increasingly, I find that I don't care to know. I can judge a statement by the statement without sentencing the person for whom the statement is attributed.

I am blessed to have had the opportunity to sit down with Leonard Ravenhill for an afternoon in his home. He was as authentic there as I hear him to be in his sermons. Yet, when I see some preachers scrutinized, I can't help but wonder if Brother Ravenhill will one day be scrutinized in a similar manner (if the Lord tarries).

Thank you, brother Greg for this timely admonition.

P

proudpapa Oct 24, 2012

It's Not the Critic That Counts

It is not the critic that counts, nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, nor where the doer of deeds could have been done better.

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena—whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly—who errs and comes short again and again—who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause;

Who at best knows the end of the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while doing greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat!”

~Theodore Roosevelt

http://www.ephrataministries.org/remnant-2012-07-its-not-the-critic-that%20counts.a5w

sermonindex Oct 24, 2012

Is it me or does anyone else feel that the requests made here are childish?

We are constantly being herded into a fenced place, can't do this can't do that, don't go here, don't say this, don't say that.

They are childish to me because if you have the love of Jesus in you, your going to be careful how you say anything against another brother openly.

If we bite and devour one another or we are quick tempered, something is deeply wrong with our spiritual condition. For example, I can mention Jimmy Swaggart and I can see people vomiting their wicked heart against him. All they can see is his sin and can't get beyond it. Which tells me a great deal of how they view redemption and mercy, it's powerless to those who sin AFTER they are saved. Personally, I love the man, his preaching and singing ministers to me. But to other believers, they have a real problem with him. That is just an example, I didn't mention him for anyone to spew their hatred here, so please refrain.

Notice how I said the same childish request? I said, "so please refrain". If we have the love of Jesus in us, I shouldn't have to say that.

This is the problem friends. Like the Pharisees we love the bible, but we lack Mercy, Faith and Judgment which Jesus was reeking with when He went around doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil. The Pharisees were quick to judge, but Jesus wants us to weigh everything before we come to a fair conclusion but even than He wants us to show mercy. Jesus wasn't excusing the woman who was caught in adultery, what He wanted His accusers to acknowledge was that they were no different than she. But Jesus didn't say, "ok girly your accusers are gone, see ya". No, He told her, go and sin no more. He went beyond what the law demanded and pulled out another law, MERCY. God showed this same thing through David and Bathsheba. Mercy, Faith and Judgment were always there but no one could see it because few loved God. When you love God, you will have these components there and you will be quick to listen, quick to hear a matter before judgment is passed, and even then when a man loves, he even is more longsuffering not willing that any man should perish.

J

jimp Oct 24, 2012

hi, i can only say ;thank you Lord for this light that will hopefully dispell the darkness of slander and criticism in our midst and in our hearts.jimp

C

Compton Oct 24, 2012

I know that there is a legitimate gift toward "discernment." However, true discernment will not be short on facts or interpretive of certain points.

I've often noted that the enemy of our souls speaks in condemning generalizations and narritives about our character and identities, while the Holy Spirit's conviction is precise, touching something specifically that is actionable.

"And the crowds were questioning him, saying, “Then what shall we do?” And he would answer and say to them, “The man who has two tunics is to share with him who has none; and he who has food is to do likewise.”

And some tax collectors also came to be baptized, and they said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Collect no more than what you have been ordered to.”

Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, “And what about us, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages.”

Blessings,

MC

sermonindex Oct 24, 2012

However, true discernment will not be short on facts or interpretive of certain points.

Oh I wish that this was the case. Discernment usually comes in pieces. But one piece is enough to arrest our attention that more is going on than what meets the eye.

hi, i can only say ;thank you Lord for this light that will hopefully dispell the darkness of slander and criticism in our midst and in our hearts.jimp

I hope that we all would see this, but it's not going to happen. We need to have our minds transformed into the mind of Christ that the flow of God's instructions will be unhindered, than we shall know what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Unless there is a change, this information will only stave off for awhile, surprisingly, some believers will only be chomping at the bit waiting for an opportunity to spill their "truth". To me that is sad, but pride is the big player here and there are a lot believers that cannot let go of the idea that they have to be right.

It's not important that we are right, it's important that we know that Jesus Christ is TRUTH. When we know that we are right, we have a different mindset, not of pride that we have amassed great knowledge, but that knowledge can service others and not serve ourselves.

One of the wonderful things that God helped me to do was to be released from the idea that I was right. He put me in touch with people that knew more than I could ever know about anything. I would walk away deeply ashamed because they had something that I lacked. They had knowledge alright, but they had a balance of mercy which I did not have.

In those days I had a loose tongue and I spoke against other ministers of the gospel whom I thought had no right to preach the gospel because they didn't have the full gospel message that I claimed to have had. Looking back at myself, I was an ignorant fool. Sure I was born again, but definitely wet behind the ears.

I think this site helps other believers in that direction because of the way they view this site. Though innocent in every way, but the "remnant" idea may be producing believers from being indifferent in other preachers that they disagree with. It's a sad day but they may be comparing this site and it's contents, it's do's and don'ts, it's conferences, it's webmaster etc..,they may be developing this website as their base, a religion if you like, and any preacher that doesn't line up to the star preachers that are on this site are put down and ridiculed. This was a danger that Paul put down and if I may put Frank Bartlemen on the same page with Paul, he, by the Spirit quashed at every whip stitch.

sermonindex Oct 24, 2012

amen. Mark spoke well, Greg's request was humble, Mike Compton's Word was sound and simple.

It's a Simple Faith, embrace it like a child, humble and meek and you will not stray from the Kingdom of God.

make it so Lord, amen.

sermonindex Oct 24, 2012

Again, the sign of the Last Days is deception overwhelming people, not Revival or unity. This is especially true with more prominent people who have learned that the "ministry" can be a source of a good income and a seat of Honor. It is these that Paul warned about in Acts 20, concerning those who"rise up among you, drawing disciples after themselves."....."making merchandise from you."

So, again....Does everyone who names the name of Christ a true minister of Christ.....or could some prove themselves false, and actually be used to devour the Church, rather than bless the Church? ...with their bad doctrine and false practices, and their acting out the role to maintain their authority.

Let us look at the Shepherd's role and the lambs again;"

" Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you."

Do we look at the lie, possibly being believed by the naive, and thereby slaying them, as something we must and WILL give account to God for, as we were entrusted with light to warn others, and expose the wicked? I do. All of the Apostles did too.

For example I believe that the doctrines of the RCC are evil...ALL of them....and their methodology that is Babylonian to seek God too....and is poison, and will kill you . Also, their are the Ecumenicalists...One Worlders who embrace all religions as a path toward God, like Warren, and is it now illegal to say so here? [ After all it is just my opinion..] It is also true.

I concede that the propensity for venom, accusation and cruel dogma could arise, and does....but this should be dealt with on an individual level, in my opinion. There is such a thing as bad doctrine, and deceivers, and MUCH of the vitriol that I have experienced here isn't from discernment applied, but from those who opposed them being exposed as to what they were, and these same deceivers they accepted as true.

This is just life in the Church...and it always will be like this, as the war goes on. You may try to sink your head like the Ostrich, and hope for continued blessing and unity...but it will never happen..[ until Jesus returns.]

The site has done a great job maintaining the peace here, and I applaud Greg and his staff....but there also has been freedom....and an open door for the prophetic..[ to a degree]....and when this begins to be quenched over the "trouble" it may insert, I believe that then, the Lord just leaves...and you end up with the Letter and the Mind....which will leave you as dry as A BONE.

I am talking about something that John the Baptist, Jesus Himself, and ALL of the Apostle practiced every day....calling truth ,truth, and light, light...and frankly...I'm appalled at all of the honor of man being slung around commending one another as if you were anything.[ me too]. Where is the glory to God alone, and the reality that we are unprofitable anyway?

Is the prophetic discernment being slain here?...Looks like it to me...and it is precisely the same argument of the Pharisees...."We cannot let this continue!"

There has to be a balance where the truth, and yes the truth in individuals, [ even the moderators] is confronted according to the Word of God, otherwise you are guaranteeing usurpers accepted; whoever they may be.