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Believers Without the Holy Ghost

M
murrcolr Oct 28, 2012

Believers Without the Holy Ghost by Samuel Chadwick

The Church knows quite well both the reason and the remedy for failure. The human resources of the Church were never so great. The opportunities of the Church were never so glorious. The need for the work of the Church was never so urgent. The crisis is momentous; and the Church staggers helplessly amid it all. When the ancient Church reproached God with sleeping at the post of duty, God charged His people with being staggering drunk. The Church knows perfectly well what is the matter. It is sheer cant to seek the explanation in changed conditions. When were conditions ever anything else? The Church has lost the note of authority, the secret of wisdom, and the gift of power, through persistent and willful neglect of the Holy Spirit of God. Confusion and impotence are inevitable when the wisdom and resources of the world are substituted for the presence and power of the Spirit of God.

Proofs abound. The New Testament furnishes examples of Churches filled with the Spirit and Churches without the Spirit. The differences are obvious. The Church of which Apollos was minister had not so much as heard that the Spirit was given. The Church in our day has no such excuse. Ours is the sin of denial. He has been shut out from the province in which He is indispensable. Religion has been reconstructed without Him. There is no denial of the supernatural, but it is insisted that the supernatural must conform to natural law. It is admitted that truth is inspired, but its inspiration must develop along the lines of natural selection and growth. Religion cannot be allowed to have come upon any other lines than those of literature, philosophy, and ethics. The Christian religion has simply the honor of being less faulty than the rest. Jesus Christ must be accounted for in the same way. He is simply the crown and consummation of a progressive humanity. The emphasis is upon the Man, and in that emphasis there is reason to rejoice but the strange thing is that in the intense interest in Jesus the certainties about Him that come through the Spirit have been lost.

The Church still has a theology of the Holy Ghost, but it has no living consciousness of His presence and power. Theology without experience is like faith without works: it is dead. The signs of death abound. Prayer-meetings have died out because men did not believe in the Holy Ghost. The liberty of prophesying has gone because men believe in investigation and not in inspiration. There is a dearth of conversions be cause faith about the New Birth as a creative act of the Holy Ghost has lost its grip on intellect and heart. The experience of the Second Gift of Grace is no longer preached and testified, because Christian experience, though it may have to begin in the Spirit, must be perfected in the wisdom of the flesh and the culture of the schools. Confusion and impotence are the inevitable results when the wisdom and resources of the world are substituted for the presence and power of the Spirit.

The rebound from materialism is seen in such movements as Christian Science, Spiritualism, and Theosophy. It is the truth in these things that gives them their power, and it is useless to denounce them. They are the reaction of the spirit against the bondage of the flesh and of the mind. The cravings they represent must be met by the experience of Pentecost. Modernism and Mysticism are also the products of a religion that is not baptized of the Holy Ghost. Sacerdotalism is another. These things flourish on impoverished soil and dunghills. They are the works of the flesh, and the product of spiritual death. The remedy for them is not in reproach and bitterness, but in floods and rivers, winds and sun. The answer is in the demonstration of a supernatural religion, and the only way to a supernatural religion is in the abiding presence of the Spirit of God.

Edit to remove paragraph...

E
enid Oct 30, 2012


I think one thing we miss, is that the believers in Acts 2 did not have the Holy Spirit. Which is why Jesus told them to wait in Jerusalem.

They elected the replacement for Judas by drawing lots.

But, it can be that so many function according to the word of God, and yet not have His Holy Spirit.

As an aside, one paragraph was repeated twice.

God bless.

M
murrcolr Oct 30, 2012

Quote: As an aside, one paragraph was repeated twice.

Thanks it been deleted.

Quote: But, it can be that so many function according to the word of God, and yet not have His Holy Spirit.

Is this a good thing or bad thing?

E
enid Nov 1, 2012


How can it be a good thing to function without the Holy Spirit?

sermonindex Nov 1, 2012

To say that we can't function without the Holy Spirit is an oxymoron, everyone is saying they have the Holy Ghost, so what is the problem? Why the question? How can the question be valid for Christians seeing that everyone who believes has the Holy Spirit?

M
murrcolr Nov 1, 2012

Quote: How can it be a good thing to function without the Holy Spirit?

Just checking didn't want to jump to any conclusions..

M
murrcolr Nov 1, 2012

Quote: How can the question be valid for Christians seeing that everyone who believes has the Holy Spirit?

Take a look at this part of article

"The Church of which Apollos was minister had not so much as heard that the Spirit was given"

Also

"The experience of the Second Gift of Grace is no longer preached and testified, because Christian experience, though it may have to begin in the Spirit, must be perfected in the wisdom of the flesh and the culture of the schools."

So the article is about the Holy Spirit that is given in Acts 2.. not the Holy Spirit that comes at justification...

sermonindex Nov 1, 2012

Believers without the Holy Ghost by Samuel Chadwick can be found as this URL.


http://www.raptureready.com/resource/chadwick/chadwick.html


The article which is posted at the beginning of this thread is taken from The Way to Pentecost Chapter One. What is interesting about the article to me is the fact that it was written before 1932 when Samuel Chadwick died. Dr Chadwick was born in the north of England and spent his life ministering the Word of God. The article only really makes sense to an English historical setting. This is not to say that there is no correlation whatsoever between the description of England at that time as he perceived it and the USA in some measure at that time.

What a contrast between the "indifference" to the Holy Spirit at that time generally and the claim by many today to know Him personally and intimately. I think this intimacy which is claimed by many is a fiction of the imagination in our time. The Holy Spirit of Dr Chadwick seems to be a very different person. Today its all tongues, prophecy and hot air. To Dr Chadwick He was the fruit of godliness and virtue.

sermonindex Nov 2, 2012

Brothers and Sisters we may as well stop bothering with the subject of the Holy Spirit as a second work of grace, or the second blessing, nobody wants it. Everyone is settled with the fact that they have received the Holy Ghost at confession by faith. If that is the case, why seek for something more?

If I received the Holy Spirit when I repented and gave my life to Jesus, why should I bother looking for another Holy Ghost when I got the whole deal at the first?

Seems kind of stupid to me that I should seek for something that I already have.

P
proudpapa Nov 2, 2012

Hi Approved

Approved wrote ///If I received the Holy Spirit when I repented and gave my life to Jesus, why should I bother looking for another Holy Ghost when I got the whole deal at the first///

What is your definition of revivle??

What is your understanding of being filled with the Holy Ghost??

Was the early church in acts constantly filled with the Holy Ghost??

S
stevet83 Nov 2, 2012

Interesting title: Believers without the Holy Ghost...having the Holy Ghost is what makes a believer, a believer.
Quote: "Confusion and impotence are inevitable when the wisdom and resources of the world are substituted for the presence and power of the Spirit of God.Proofs abound. The New Testament furnishes examples of Churches filled with the Spirit and Churches without the Spirit. The differences are obvious. The Church of which Apollos was minister had not so much as heard that the Spirit was given." Is he making a contrast between churches with and without the Spirit, and using Apollo in a negative sense?

J
jochbaptist Nov 2, 2012

Quote-,
If I received the Holy Spirit when I repented and gave my life to Jesus, why should I bother looking for another Holy Ghost when I got the whole deal at the first?
Seems kind of stupid to me that I should seek for something that I already have.
End quote-,

Approved, please speak for yourself.

If you (edit - anyone) still cannot see it after the previous thread, and what is written in scripture, (Acts 4:29-32 for example) it is because you (edit - that person) do not want to see it. I find your (edit - such an) attitude stiff necked and rebellious, an attitude towards the Holy Spirit that is not uncommon, especially amongst the religiously proud.

Joch.

edit - After reading your post again, I might have misunderstood you. If that is the case, the above does not apply to you, sorry.

B
brothagary Nov 2, 2012

wow thats a false blanket statment ,,,many people are still seeking to be filled with the spirit and to be baptised with the spirit for power to serve and greater times of refreshings

it is close to a devilish statment ,,becasue it what the devil wants ,he wants us to have a laking in power to serve ,and an unholy satasfaction with our state of being

amamased to hear some one on sermon index say that

sermonindex Nov 2, 2012

There are no believers without the Holy Ghost. How can you be sealed by the Spirit into the family of God, and joint heirs with Christ... and not have the Holy Ghost?

C'mon people, let's get Biblical here. Lets pay attention to sound doctrine.

Having said that, we should be seeking daily to be FILLED with the Spirit. There is a different.

Krispy

S
stevet83 Nov 2, 2012

Why do doctrines on predestination get locked, but not clear false doctrine on the Holy Spirit?

T
TheophilusMD Nov 2, 2012

I think we need to understand first what Samuel Chadwick is saying (not putting words in his mouth) according to the quoted article (and the whole book, The Way to Pentecost, for that matter). He is not talking about salvation but in essence the need of believers to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit. That is why the second chapter is entitled "The Church without the Spirit."

Here's the link to the entire chapter 2 entitled "The Church Without the Spirit":
http://www.raptureready.com/resource/chadwick/chadwick31.html

As armkelly said the original post was taken from Chapter One of The Way to Pentecost. This book is highly recommended.

edited.

U
UntoBabes Nov 3, 2012

A Church without the Holy Spirit was the cause of grief to Martyn Lioyd- Jones as well.

The Baptism Of The Holy Spirit Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones by Pastor John Piper

http://youtu.be/LDIuYIDqeDk

sermonindex Nov 3, 2012

wow thats a false blanket statment ,,,many people are still seeking to be filled with the spirit and to be baptised with the spirit for power to serve and greater times of refreshings

it is close to a devilish statement ,,because it's what the devil wants ,he wants us to have a lacking in power to serve ,and an unholy satasfaction with our state of being, amazed to hear some one on sermon index say that

I am equally amazed as to why no one picked up on why I said it.

I left off posting for a few days but when I read this, I had to respond.

Revival to me is how Paul worded, 1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

I said that last post because I was protesting against the foolishness of how men believe today in calling the Holy Ghost "Second work of grace, or the second blessing" or some other "secondary". It's not secondary, It's what the OT Saints and Prophets longed to be partakers of. It's what Angels desired to be included but cannot. It's Christ in you the hope of glory.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit or the infilling the Holy Spirit is the outshining of the Fathers glory in a believer. We should all want it, but it's amazing to me how many people don't want it because they believe they already have it at confession of faith. To them they have it, why bother looking for this secondary work of grace or power, or whatever they chose to call it?

We who are praying and longing for a revival we may as well mark it down, there will be an outpouring of Gods Spirit like this world has never seen before and those that don't believe that God can take a man and move through Him with power and demonstration of the Holy Ghost may as well stop praying for revival because what I am saying right now is going to happen.

There was a group of believers who did not believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost. They were praying for revival. (this was well over 70 years ago). A group of them got together and sought God in a barn. When God responded and started filling people with the Holy Ghost and the people were manifesting signs from the book of Acts, they abandoned their prayer meeting, but the revival took off anyway. Those that accepted what God was doing moved on and evangelized the area and great things were done in the name of Jesus.

My post is meant to be positive with some negative overtones, but the negativity was unavoidable. If there are more questions, they will have to wait after my Sabbatical from SI.

God Bless Saints,

M
murrcolr Nov 3, 2012

Because I was sure of this, I wanted to come to you first, so that you might have a second experience of grace. 2 Cor 1:15 ESV

This scripture is where the saying of a “second blessing” or “second work of grace” might come from.

But does scripture point to two works of the Spirit in the believer.

Paul encountered Jesus outside of Damascus in verses 3-6, in a powerful vision. Here he met the Lord and committed himself to follow Christ's directions. There is little question whether or not this was when he became born-again. Then later in verse 17 Ananias layed hands on him that he might be filled with the Spirit.

Acts 8:14-17. Here the apostles ministered to a group of Samaritans who previously “had received the word of God” but had not been blessed with the fullness of the Spirit. Verse 16 explains, “For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Immediately the apostles laid hands on the Samaritans and they visibly received the Spirit's manifest presence.

Acts 19 Here again the distinction between salvation and Spirit-baptism is clear. They received Christ and were baptized with water as an outward sign. Then, encouraged by Paul's laying on of hands, they responded to the Holy Spirit Who had come to live in them, and began to pour out the praise of God in new languages. The release of the Spirit's power was therefore separate from the Spirit's earlier indwelling in their hearts.

S
stevet83 Nov 3, 2012

How do you know you've recieved the second blessing?

This discussion is locked.

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