Today’s church is more about serving a cause or a person. Though promoted as such, it is not about serving Jesus Christ except in a social way. Its message is about keeping resolutions and commitments [committees and programs] that, absent intimacy in relationship with God, that is never taught, cannot ever succeed in establishing a "sustaining" message.
Hi Croref,
That does seem to be the "way" of many Christian "fellowships" now.
Here is a wonderful quote from a godly man I know who had written this in his Bible.
"You cannot be both goal-oriented and God oriented at the same time. One orientation will always take precedence over the other. When our desire to achieve takes the lead, He becomes the means to an end rather than the end. We tend to use God rather than to worship Him. We will find ourselves seeking information about Him rather than transformation by Him." Charles Stanley
by lesmanto on 2012/11/4 5:50:55
Yes! But I wonder why Stanley isn't more of a Pentecostal" mindset in actual practice in what preaches? I mean, how many times does one who belongs to his church need to hear the salvation message? When is one supposed to move on in the afterwards of hearing and responding? If it isn't preached that there is more in the afterwards the only option is to have more programs-more church involvement__and then the church eventual dies.
hi, somebody should find out who the head of the church is and fire him so that those of us who gripe can be happy. come to my town and you can find a lot of churches doing wel and preaching the gospel.jimp
by jimp on 2012/11/4 6:30:52
hi, somebody should find out who the head of the church is and fire him so that those of us who gripe can be happy. come to my town and you can find a lot of churches doing wel and preaching the gospel.jimp
Mine as well, jimp. Probably more than yours. But__ Gripe? Be happy? Did not the Lord say there would only be a few because the way is narrow? A church doing well means "what" to you, jimp?__ alot of people? Great chicken dinners maybe?
By what you declare I imagine one would have no problem finding one that taught son-ship in the Father as He purposes for Himself? Know anything about that?
We need to stop looking at tbe church. Particularly the organized structure. And focus on Jesus. Grow in your relationship to him through the word and prayer. Let our fellowship be the fruit of union with Jesus. Even with just two or three people.
Bunyon records the experiences of Christian getting fellowship wherever he could in his spiritual journey. If Pilgrim's Progress be the spiritual autobiography of Bunyon's own spiritual journey. Then Bunyon's own fellowship was tbe result or fruit of his union with Christ. If memory serves tbis dear saint spent more time in jail than in church. Thus he grew much in his relationship to Jesus.
Tbe same was true of Richard Wormbrandt. Though he spent many years in solitary confinement for his faith in Jesus. God blessed him much with rich fellowship with Jesus.
We need to think with the mindset of the persecuted in restricted nations. Tbeir fellowships a in house churches. Often referred to as tbe underground church. Often they are meeting literally.underground. If persecution will be coming upon America as some are saying. Then we need to think in terms of 'church' as being where two or three come together.
Greg has been encouraging the SI forum to explore gospel fellowships. There is a section on this. Something all of us may want to look into.
Bearmaster.
Even when the Church is in full swing and filled with the Spirit and is moving in the realm, there is always something to complain about. If we were all Borg, than we would have less mistakes. But we are not, we are so many with many minds and thoughts and different ideas. Even in the midst of all that mess, God is working through His Body. He knows who are His and who is not. The Church of Jesus Christ is the called out ones who are called according to His purpose.
Whatever is going on outside of that is messy and it may or may not be of God, only God knows.
We are really not to get involved beyond the border to which God has placed us. If we didn't have the news media and the spread of radio/tv and technology, we wouldn't know what is going on in another country for several weeks or months depending on the distance. We are to live in the area that God has placed us and be the light there. I cannot be a light in New York City as I am not placed there. But since I am connected with the saints there by the One Baptism, I may or may not feel their infirmities when the Spirit of God should move upon me to pray on their behalf.
To look at the whole Church the way we are doing it now and to watch the news, hear about the horrific stories that are being reported, the Charlatans that are making merchandise of Christians worldwide, it's absolute disheartening and it only makes the heart sick. We need to just be concerned about the saints that are within the area we live in. If the Spirit of God moves upon us to go beyond that than we obey. But right now, God would have us to stay within the border to which we have been assigned.
That is my thinking.
hi, the narrow gate and way is Jesus and Him only.He said that He came not to condemn the world but to save it.with your attitude the day of pentacost where thousands were added was somehow a bad day.every number that is added to the church is a person who will not go to hell.numbers are very important to God.He numbered everything in His word and even has a book in it called numbers.the great blessing to abraham was that his children shall be numered like the stars.the end times will not begin until all the earth has been preached to and the times of the gentiles be fulfilled.all talking about bigger and bigger numbers.if a friend of yours gets saved ,aren't you happy for him .he is another number.the church i attend has started 20,000 churches around the world in the last 10 years. many in very dangerous places.i like big numbers.jimp
Jimp when you read Acts, 3000 being saved looks pretty impressive. But set against the backdrop of Pentacost. It's small. Because there were over a million people in Pentacost. Number wise just a drop kn tbe bucket with just 300 souls. That us if your looking at quantity.
But tbe quality of tbe first century church was powerful. Though small in number. They were mighty in the quality of power they had in tbe Holy Spirit. And this us where the emphasis must lie. Jesus was never a num ers person. He as never a mega church leader. Jesus said he would be present where two Ir three saints fathered together.
In a nation such as Irran there are several million Moslens. Yet it is a few thousand Spirit filled Christians that are making the government and religious leaders nervous. President Amandinajab and Supreme leader Ayatolla Khomrnemi have vowed to stomp out these few thousand Christians. Honestly. What do they have to fear. Could it be the devil fears what a few on fire believers can do to change tbe world?
It is not numbers. But what a few believers can do filled with Jesus and his word.
Bearmaster.
hi, now how many did Jesus feed while He was preachin? both times...
Quote:It is not numbers. But what a few believers can do filled with Jesus and his word.
What will a few believers do add numbers
Come on !!!!!!
by bearmaster on 2012/11/4 7:25:15
We need to stop looking at tbe church. Particularly the organized structure. And focus on Jesus. Grow in your relationship to him through the word and prayer. Let our fellowship be the fruit of union with Jesus. Even with just two or three people.
Sign me up, bear! I long for it!!
by jimp on 2012/11/4 7:52:46
hi, the narrow gate and way is Jesus and Him only.He said that He came not to condemn the world but to save it.with your attitude the day of pentacost where thousands were added was somehow a bad day.every number that is added to the church is a person who will not go to hell.
This isn't about heaven and hell, jimp. It is about having an intimate relationship with God as our Father and Jesus Christ whom He sent.. cf John 17:3 and try not to sell the understanding by revelation of it, short.
hi, ok each number represents another sinner coming into a loving relationship with Jesus.i don't want to make it too hard for you to understand.jimp
hi, it is obviousto me that we come to things here from different purspectives. i am 73 and have been saved for 50 years and have ministered with and influenced by many great men.i have been in the pastorate and a missionary but mostly i have been a minister to the homeless in new orleans.soul winning and discipleing are what i am all about. i am not religeous at all and for many years the do nothing church folks angered me.Jesus is the only message i have and Him crucified.i could care less what some theologeon has to say unless he was like my friend dr. clarke pinnock who was also out there with us.jim
by jimp on 2012/11/4 15:47:37
hi, it is obviousto me that we come to things here from different purspectives.
Who you talkin' to jimp? If it's me__I'm on your side.
Brother why tbe sarcasm? What did 120 Spirit filled saints do at Pentacost? Why is a small house church movement in Iran making the political and religious leaders nervous? Why is the minority church in restricted nations persecuted to such a degree?
I think if you look to the examples above a few believers filled with Jesus and his word can be far more effective in the things of Christ than a mega church.
Bearmaster.
dear bearmaster, did it occur to you that of the 20000 churches we started and support from a megachurch that we have a few in iran and china and north korea and all the arab countries. we have a number in prisons who have suffered severe persecution all over the world.why would you let your biased thinking effect you.someone has to feed the native pastors and their families. let God use the small and wonderful home churches and the medium sized churches and the megachurches to do His will without being criticized and lumped in with other groups that have real problems. let us pray for the body of Christ throughout the world.there are a lot of things going on that you know nothing about.revivals in closed countries that would surprise you.jimp
Let's see Jimp. Are you talking about tbe house church movement in Iran?. The fact that before 1979 there were less than 500 believers in Iran? And now with a gospel revolution there were upwards of 100,000 believers in Iran? Are you talking about upwards of 30,000.a day coming to Christ in China? Are you talking about 3000 believers imprisoned in Eritrea? Or 40,000 imprisoned in N. Korea.
Must admit brother. My understanding of he persecuted church is sketchy. Guess I have to stop moderating our prayer call that prays for the persecuted church..
Bearmaster.
no, i am talking about who is doing the sending and the giving of finances and prayers.we need not to be so haughty as to criticize what we don't know. what church that is a megachurch might not be on fire or on fire with the presents of God.to lump all of them is wrong.jimp
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