Is It The Doing or the Trusting That Makes Us Believers?

sermonindex Nov 28, 2012

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

I would like to complain a little.

When I got "saved" I had no idea that I was being recruited to save others. That was the farthest thing from my mind, I needed help and help arrived in the form of Jesus Christ.

When I look at an animal I sometimes will speak to it and say, "You have no idea how lucky you are. You live out your life and you die and that is the end for you. Nothing is expected of you but for you to naturally do what you were built to do." That certainly is not living, but when the bible demands that we be doers of that word and we have not the knowledge and withal to do it, I sometimes envy that animal.

But for us, we are born again for misery. A people of sorrow and acquainted with griefs and then forced to perform the word of God to only add failure and depression because we simply have no idea how to perform what James is telling us to do, "Be ye not hearers only but doers".

Someone told me that trusting is being a doer, but than we have another crowd that demands that we get out there and preach and believe me brethren I personally do not have the power nor the boldness to stand up and preach.

Let me be even more blunt before all of you and the Lord, I do not want to preach the gospel. I want the salvation that I had at the beginning where it was just me and Jesus and my bible. I don't care about sinners for salvation outside my immediate family, right now it's too much a stress to be bothered with that. It's so much easier to give to a ministry in support of a work than to actually participate in something that is filled with stress and anxiety.

I am serious brethren. I was not briefed before I was brought into this great salvation that I was to be recruited into a stressful work or being a doer of the word. I mean if the Children of Israel couldn't do it, how can we? Why can't I just live as a believer, trusting God for my life, trusting Him to save my family and live out this life and then die and meet Him in glory?

Saving others should be a joy. But the Christianity that is being presented in modern times is stressful. The demand from the Church says to get out there and save others and do do do do do. I want God and I want my salvation, but I have often wondered why I could not have been that thief on the cross. He got saved and then died. What a wonderful testimony.

Signed: A tired old dog.

E

enid Nov 28, 2012

'...Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' Romans 4:3

Believing God is our salvation. If we don't believe, we are not believers, are we?

Jesus said to His disciples, "...follow Me and I will make you become fishers of men." Mark 1:17

I don't know if they understood what He meant by that, but He did tell them, up front, what they were to do.

Again, in Jeremiah 20:9, Jeremiah wanted to restrain himself from speaking God's word. However, the compulsion to do so was too great for him. He described it as a fire within.

As it is, if we believe, and understand what the wrath of God involves, and the eternal danger the lost are in, how can we not warn others?

If it is ok to sit in church, and not warn others, would we ourselves be saved now? It's a horrible thought to what might have been.

We might not want to share the gospel, but we are to obey the will of God, and to ask for His help to do so.

Thankfully, many have a heart to see their families won to the Lord. That should have us in prayer daily.

God bless.

C

Croref Nov 28, 2012

by enid on 2012/11/28 0:58:44

'...Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' Romans 4:3

Believing God is our salvation. If we don't believe, we are not believers, are we?

None of the above.

It is "being" that makes us believers___the purposed result of salvation__ and there is no salvation without repentance.

C

Croref Nov 28, 2012

by Approved on 2012/11/27 21:37:27

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

I would like to complain a little.

When I got "saved" I had no idea that I was being recruited to save others. That was the farthest thing from my mind, I needed help and help arrived in the form of Jesus Christ.

Nor should you now believe in such a recruitment. Jesus saves! He is the only One who can. To be used of Him is another matter for which we must qualify.
To be a witness for Jesus is to speak from personal experience__intimate knowledge.

E

enid Nov 28, 2012

Croref,

If believing is not salvation, then what is it?

'For with the heart one believes unto rightousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.' Romans 10:10.

I don't know what you mean when you say 'being'. What does that mean?

Scriptures rather than opinion would be welcome.

Thanks.

R

rookie Nov 28, 2012

enid wrote;

'...Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' Romans 4:3

Believing God is our salvation. If we don't believe, we are not believers, are we?"

If one studies the Scriptures which speak of this testimony, one will find that God and Abraham had a relationship prior to the event where God "accounted to him" or the acknowledgment that Abraham did believe. You see, Scriptures teach that for one to trust God one must first receive the grace necessary for 'belief." Abram walked with God for some time before God declared him righteous. This righteousness is ascribed to Abraham because he responded to the call of God. The work of God leading him became the foundation on which Abraham truly "believed."

The Scripture teach that the grace of God goes before the response of man. The response of man is necessary to realize the goodness and love of God. The Scriptures teach that trust is the result of understanding the ways of God.

E

enid Nov 28, 2012

I accept that grace is necessary.

I still don't know what 'being' is?

C

Croref Nov 28, 2012

by enid on 2012/11/28 4:07:22

I accept that grace is necessary.

I still don't know what 'being' is?

G'Mornin' enid!!

I pray you will see something that will satisfy that issue in my new thread.

PAX

Cross

E

enid Nov 28, 2012

Sadly,

I don't think the original post has been dealt with. It somehow seems to have got 'shelved'.

Brother Approved, I understand your concerns. It would be fine if we could just get on with it, that is, living the Christian life to please God. And if others don't want to live for God, so be it.

But God wants us to reach the lost, the same way in which we were reached before we truly understood the gospel.

God bless.

C

Croref Nov 28, 2012

by enid on 2012/11/28 4:41:01

Sadly,

I don't think the original post has been dealt with. It somehow seems to have got 'shelved'.

Brother Approved, I understand your concerns. It would be fine if we could just get on with it, that is, living the Christian life to please God. And if others don't want to live for God, so be it.

But God wants us to reach the lost, the same way in which we were reached before we truly understood the gospel.

God bless.

So be it??!

How were you reached?

BTW: I wrote "None of the above" with regards to the OP. I stand by that to point up the immaturity of the question~~[s]~~.

sermonindex Nov 28, 2012

BTW: I wrote "None of the above" with regards to the OP. I stand by that to point up the immaturity of the question~~[s]~~.

Personally, I believe all the questions were valid. The forums here on SermonIndex are not so we can teach everyone else what we know thinking it is superior but it is a place in humility to learn from others and not belittle them in anyway. We all see as in a glass dimly. I feel that just because a brother has more of a vision of the indwelling Christ or the Sanctifying Christ he should not condemn the brother who sees the justifying Christ clearly. This is all part of a larger picture of the salvation in Jesus Christ and we should humble ourselves to learn from each other but in the process not speak down to each other from our own vantage points of what we feel is more important or were we are seeing from.

Yes it is by "belief" in the truth and in the person of Christ and His finished work on the cross that we enter into eternal life. It is not by works of righteousness that we do. But once we believe in Christ we receive His indwelling Spirit and are enabled by this Spirit to do good deeds by His grace and for His glory. This does not merit but validates our salvation. Our hope is not in daily trying to save ourselves but our hope in in what Christ did for us. That is where the weight of Scripture is. There is a need especially for workers in the Gospel such as Paul and timothy as Apostles to walk more circumspectly than others because they would be judged more for what they spoke and did as "leaders" and apostles in the body of Christ.

And we all should be sober minded towards sin in this life for the potential to apostasy is real and should not be shrugged off. But those that fully trust in Christ and not their own righteousness daily who look to the grace of Christ and His love for them in personal relationship, that one does not quake at the thought of forsaking such a redeemer for there is a surety of the hope in the personal relationship and communion with Christ (John 15). Knowing Jesus Christ by personal speaking, communion and life is what is important and not only trying to live by the commandments of Scripture.

Our fear of the Lord should be a child-like fear that brings life. And not lead us into a legalistic trying to obey commands to please God. For to please God we hear His voice and obey Him out of love and devotion and not only demand for such was old covenant.

M

mguldner Nov 28, 2012

Brother Approved I share your sentiment really I have struggled with this here lately especially. What does God expect from us once we have come to Christ? I honestly am at a loss.

Some confusion from the others that have posted can be cleared up with proper definition. The word repentance was thrown in there as an act of Salvation. Repentance is caused by revelation of the Holy Spirit. Essentially Repent means "change of mind" if you are looking at the greek word for repentance.

I pass this nagging feeling of "Do something" with church activity but it still there even when I do that so I don't believe I have found a viable solution to the problem.

I believe God is focused on a relationship with you as an individual there are days He brings people into your life that need to hear you testimony (please note this is not "sharing the gospel" in the traditional "can I ask you a question") its telling people what God has done for you and how He has changed your heart.

BUT what's more important is that people not only hear about how God has changed you but that they see the difference in you. That to me is a more powerful testimony.

I am almost 99.9% sure we are in the same boat.

J

jimp Nov 28, 2012

hi, you quote how abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness. but he left his country and roamed about seeking and being led ...he offered the son of promise and had to be stopped. and this is how we know he believed God. noah also beieved God for the saving of his family...he built the ark in dry and barren area in obedience to God...and that is how we know that noah belived God.this is what is meant by faith without works is dead(or not faith at all)obedience to the directive word is faith.jimp

C

Croref Nov 28, 2012

by sermonindex on 2012/11/28 5:43:27

BTW: I wrote "None of the above" with regards to the OP. I stand by that to point up the immaturity of the question~~[s]~~.

Disrespect or belittlement from me was not my intent but rather by using the word "immaturity" to illustrate what was, from my perspective, an elementary conclusion per Heb 6:1.

I am sorry you weren't able to view it that why. Perhaps my immaturity lies in my choosing of words.

Thanks for the accusing reply.

sermonindex Nov 28, 2012

Brother,

My concern is after reading many of your posts you are convinced on certain doctrines and ideas that you feel the need to teach everyone else on the forums here. This is not a place to argue the extremes of grace and works, calvinism or armianism, repentance or faith, having security in christ and not having security. For my belief and others on this site is that there is a balance in all these teachings. Thus the need we should have to try and learn from each other in humility and lowliness preferring each other better than ourselves.

I do not state this to say that everyone you write is wrong or even any of it is wrong, but the balance needed to learn from other brothers. Also we encourage saints on the forums here to try and simply encourage each other not by promoting our doctrines but by a charitable word from the Lord that would simply encourage each other on this pilgrim walk.

No matter what the scripture says about denying ourselves, repentance and the fear of the Lord, we must before all of this promote and speak of a personal intimate relationship with Jesus Christ through faith in His atoning blood and death. This is where the true life of the Christian faith lies not in our own repentance but in the death of Christ for all who would believe.

I wrote an article on this subject:

How Precious Is the Blood of Christ To Us? by Greg Gordon
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=29594

excerpt:

But now consider that this blood was poured out for you.

When Christ died, this death was for you. When the Romans plunged the nails into His hands and the spear into His side, this was for you. Christ became sin for you.

Oh, can you even begin to understand what this cost God, dear saints?

For God in love to shed His life-blood for you? It only took one drop of this inestimably precious blood to atone for all your sins that were against God. One drop to appease the anger and wrath of God against you. One drop to free you from all the power of sin in your life.

The passage says that this blood “redeemed” you to God.

“For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son He loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.” (Colossians 1:13-14)

Such truths should bring a deep enduring thankfulness and joy in our souls. Have you been purchased, redeemed and saved by God? Has this blood saved you? If so this should be the true motivation to follow in obedience to the way of discipleship with Jesus Christ.

C

Croref Nov 28, 2012

by sermonindex on 2012/11/28 6:29:08

Brother,

My concern is after reading many of your posts you are convinced on certain doctrines and ideas that you feel the need to teach everyone else on the forums here.

You promote the doctrine I believe. How can I be wrong??
Indeed. Paris Reidhead is one of the paramount teachers in my life along with Oswald Chambers and Devern Fromke you promote for our understanding the scriptures; Teachers who go beyond the issues of initial salvation and get into the "Ultimate Intention" of God for having created us in the first place. Do you also take issue with them as well? Apparently not. Therefore I feel you have given me the freedom to further express what they believe. Having said that, what points in my comments or threads do you believe are not in complete agreement with those teachers, What do you believe I get wrong. Where do I need to be taught, . . er, corrected.

Please help me out here: If folk have questions, are not replies intended to teach?

Thank you

M

mguldner Nov 28, 2012

The issue is not your doctrine but the fact that SermonIndex is not a place for many teachers but many students. It is not a place of self promotion. Looking solely at the "Scripture and Doctrine" section I counted 9 threads posted by yourself just on the first page you could see how a moderator can conclude you have come here to teach rather than learn when you do those kind of things.

J

jochbaptist Nov 28, 2012

Dear Approved
I just want to share something.

I too turned to Jesus to save me from a deep pit, and received the promised new start in life. With my baptism I received a regenerated heart and a freedom in life that was indescribable.
However, after a short while I sensed sadness in me that I could not put my finger on. It grew till I was compelled to share it at a meeting with fellow believers. The Holy Spirit revealed through them that I carried guilt and needed to confess my sinfulness. Although I realized that I was a sinner and what my sins had cost me, I was unaware of the grief it caused Him. Trusting their counsel I started confessing and as I confessed my heart began to fill with grief over my sinful past and words of confession started to pour from my lips and tears from my eyes. i got off the floor that day with such joy and thankfulness that I just HAD to share.
That is one of my earliest and dearest personal encounters I had with God.
I identified a lot with what you shared in your post, and while thinking on your words, I was reminded of this particular incident, and refreshed by the memory of it. These scriptures also came to mind ...

Romans 4:8 - Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Ps 32:1 - Of David. A maskil. Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.

Luke 7:47 - Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven--for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

Proverbs 11:30 - The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and he who wins souls is wise.

sermonindex Nov 28, 2012

mguldner said;

I believe God is focused on a relationship with you as an individual

I think you are correct. For a long time I have gotten away from this all important truth, to love the Lord our God with all our heart soul mind and our strength, this is the first and paramount instruction and the second instruction is akin to it, to love our neighbour as ourselves.

I think when we drift from this that we will end up looking at Christianity as something that is hard work and failure and yet, I have experienced that when we walk in the light as He is in the light that walking with the Lord is not stressful at all, it's only when we lose sight of that all important commandment.

When we walk in fellowship with Him the object goal of saving souls will be constantly there, but it's no longer anxiety that one feels rather a mixture of joy and sadness depending on what He is doing within you at the time.

Enid, what Croref meant by "Being" is the who you are, a statement of fact. The scripture that says, "Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Using Paul's words as an example (for there are many other such examples) he is saying "Recognize the fact that you are dead to sin." It is the fact that you are dead is your "being", the fact is that we are dead to sin. Another fact is that we are "alive" unto God. That is another state of being. The fact is that we are alive. So basically the word "Being" is being used to state a position of who we are in Christ Jesus. It's the essence of who we are.

Here is a better example of this essence, 2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The latter part of this verse is stating our "being" in Him as Righteousness, that is who we are. I am not a Canadian, I am not an American, I am not a Jew nor am I a gentile, I am Righteousness (of God in Christ). If we were to go deeper in this, we could say that "As He is, so are we also in this world". But that is another subject altogether and I have digressed from the topic, my bad.

sermonindex Nov 28, 2012

Dear JochBaptist, I hear you on your beginnings as I can relate to all of it, for I had similar experiences. Thank you for sharing that, it has caused me to think about those earlier days. :-)