Hi, Someone I know is thinking of taking someone to court. This person is a Christian, and the man they want to take to court did some work on their house, and is probably not a Christian. It's a long story, so I won't go into details. I am wondering if this is something that should be pursued, since they are out several thousand dollars, and could be much more. The man was deceptive and did shoddy work. What would be your opinion?
hi, it was common among the jews to lend money to other jews at no interest and to settle disputes out of court with each other. we have courts to protect the meek and the weak. this "contractors" behavior is not christian and he should be sued.jimp
However the Spirit of God leads them, is how they should respond, if the Spirit of Christ dwells in them. Let them pray, and ask God to direct them through the Scriptures, in sincerity and brokenness.
I agree Yeshuasboy :-) And not to forget that Jesus told us, "Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Matt 5:38-42.
I know a Christian man who lent his car to an unsaved man, as he was being kind to him and sharing the gospel. The man stole the car. My friend, the Christian, asked Jesus about it and the Lord had him turn the other cheek and send the man the deed to the car so he would not be arrested.
Another Christian man I know gave prisoners jobs as they got out of prison. He shared the gospel with them and trusted them. Many were grateful and came to know Christ, but one man stole $600. from him and ran with it. The Christian man could have had him arrested and he would have gotten a very stiff sentence, but he found him and told him if he would pay it back over the year with small interest, he would not report the crime.
The man was humbled and ended paying the Christian the debt.
God will work in people's hearts if we forgive them.
Just some personal stories I know.
Sister Leslie
hi, the bible also says that if we do not take care of our families we are worse than infidels
1 Corinthians 6
New International Version (NIV)
Lawsuits Among Believers
6 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!
7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
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Eye for Eye
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
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Though he is free to do as he wishes, the most godly thing to do in many cases is allow God to judge this fellow in the end and send him a note of forgiveness, etc. God will make all things right in the end.
OK, so it seems the majority here believes that a Christian should not take anyone to court. But what if the perpetrator is not a Christian? Are we still supposed to allow them to do things to harm us ( and possibly continue to harm others if we don't stop them)? Are not our courts set up to help us, even as our laws are put there to keep order? If someone is driving drunk, I appreciate the laws that try to protect us. If I was hit by a drunk driver, I would want to report him to the police, because he could hurt someone else as well.
According to the people involved in this, they had tried to give the man time to fix, and/or pay for damages, and he did not. So they wanted to go the next step, to take him to small claims court. It seems he is licensed, but has not been following the code restrictions required.
there is nothing wrong with seeking justice if one has been wronged. That's why the courts are there to protect our rights and liberties and when someone infringes on those liberties then that person has every right to sue.
The bible says to work it out between yourselves and not to go to court, in some cases when there is no compromise, either you take your losses and forgive or go to court and retrieve your money. Personally, I would go over the work with the person bit by bit and point out the good and the bad writing everything down and then negotiate on the price. Even be open about paying the full price if the work can be done over better.
Press the fact that you paid for work to be done and then show the bad that was done, no one is going to argue against the facts that are staring them in the face.
I just read your update on that he is not willing to fix his mistakes. With prayer proceed to take him to court. But show kindness and present the facts, not railing at each other back and forth. Let him do the railing and let your lawyer present the facts. If you have before and after pics that would be helpful.
I don't think 1 Corinthians 6 is between a believer and an unbeliever. It is between two believers in Church. That is why it is very important not to take divorce situation to court. When two believers (husband and wife) standing before an unbeliever (judge) asking him to separate what God has united, they already became unbelievers, because they are breaking what God has united by the hand of an unbeliever.
Coming back to this specific case applying Sermon on the mount here is very important.
Matthew 5 -38:-You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person.
If anyone wants to follow Jesus he knows what to do here. If the contractor knows that You know he has cheated you and you still willing to forgive him then that is good enough. These are the situations in which a man has to stand for his faith. A disciple of Jesus has very higher standard which normal men cannot understand.
If we take him to court then it means that we believe in a very feeble God who cannot bring Justice but the Judge is very powerful and he use the law and order to serve Justice. Then why don't we go to the judge for salvation as well?
There was man of God in India named Sadhu Sundar Singh, he was once walking on a street, where a Conman showed him the body of his friend who acted dead and asked for money for his funeral. Sadhu gave whatever he had and kept walking. After few minutes this man came running towards Sadhu and returned all his money and cried out that his Friend is now actually Dead and he wanted him back alive.
What would Jesus do?
To be ripped off is not unusual. Happens a lot. I suggest this person make a serious study what the scriptures says about suing, about turning the other cheek and then follow what the Holy Spirit is leading him to do.
What would Jesus do?
Would suing enhance his witness with this man? What would it do to his witness in the community?
What would Jesus do?
I can't speak for God on your friend's behalf for this situation, but what I can do is share a similar testimony which happened to me and my wife some years back.
About 12 years ago we took one of our cars into a local automotive shop for some minor repairs. This particular shop had one of those "Jesus fish" symbols on their business logo, and being relatively new and therefore gullible Christians we decided to trust the mechanics that they would do quality, fair work. We were wrong. They didn't put a belt or pump on right, and as a result it destroyed the engine and it caused thousands of dollars in damage. When my wife went down to the shop to see what they would do to make it right, she was treated with profanity and told to leave.
I remember her coming home in tears, and she told me not to go back there because the mechanic threatened her and she feared for my safety. I immediately sought consulation with our church pastor concerning the very question this thread asks. Our pastor said we could sue them and not be in violatation of scripture, since these guys clearly were not Christians. So, the next day I went and filed a complaint against the automotive shop and had a sheriff's constable serve them with a small claims summons.
Then I got alone with God because something just didn't feel right. The scripture "vengeance is mine" kept coming to my mind. So I sought God concerning it and soon came to the resolution that I was to drop all charges and just let it go. I talked to my wife and she agreed. I told God I forgave the mechanic for speaking to my wife like that, and asked Him to be kind and have mercy on him. I prayed for his family, that God would be gracious to his loved ones. A great peace came over me and it was all done.
It wasn't even a week later, the whole automotive shop was boarded-up, shut down, the signs were down, the "Jesus fish" logo gone. My dad then called me out of the blue and gave me a check exactly for what the repairs would have cost. It all happened like clockwork.
From this I learnt that pastors don't always hear from God. The best advice you can give a person in this situation is to go and seek God's heart on the matter for themselves. God tests people during these times, to see where they'll go. Will they go to man for a quick answer based upon logic and dry scripture application, or will they die to their own resources and place their needs all in His hands, trusting His justice.
Remember, we are the children of a Great King. Why go to a measley earthly judge when the Judge of the Universe is a prayer away?
Brother Paul
Great Post Paul and thanks for sharing. I know this verse was already quoted: Jesus said: "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." What is Jesus asking us to pray? I have run into similar situations as Paul W. and I realized that the offender might have NEVER had anyone pray for them to be granted repentance and to become a Christian. OHHHH, even as a Christian, how I have been an enemy of God and hostile towards His ways when I have been in the flesh and yet Jesus intercedes on my behalf and His blood and mercy triumphs over judgment while bringing me to repentance and victory.
Let us also learn to pray for our enemies. OHHH that we would learn how to ALWAYS pray in the Holy Spirit and be vessels meet for the Master's good use.
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
"Epaphras, who is one of your number, a bondslave of Jesus Christ, sends you his greetings, always laboring earnestly for you in his prayers, that you may stand perfect and fully assured in all the will of God" (Col. 4.12).
I think the legal issue posted about Gospel For Asia by ArthurRosh is a good example of when some legal representation is necessary; although everything must be bathed in prayer and guided by the Holy Spirit.
Kenneth
Excellent post brother Paul, I can relate to what you said. Let me please comment on one thing though.
You stepped out and tried to do something but then stopped because you didn't feel right.
Many a time that I have stepped out to do something and I feel that check in my spirit that something is not quite right but every time that I do nothing, nothing happens. I mean when I wait on God BEFORE I attempt to do anything even if it's my own flesh, I never get that prompt from God to do anything. Do you know what I mean, or at least have an inkling of what I mean? It's as if God wants to see what we will do first so that He can step in to offer a solution if we are willing to ask Him when He impresses Himself upon us.
If they don't do it because the bible says they shouldn't, than they are treating what they read as law. But if they get a word from God like you did then it's faith obeying God. They are taking what they hear and obeying, like you did. Do you see the difference?
By the way, I am not putting your post down, I am adding to it or at least extracting a portion out to further it.
Thanks bro.
It's as if God wants to see what we will do first so that He can step in to offer a solution if we are willing to ask Him when He impresses Himself upon us.
The immature believer will often seek the Lord only after he manifests his own will and realizes the folly. More mature believers have already considered the potential folly in the secret chamber of their hearts, and have called upon the Lord to override their fleshly inclinations (which are often predicated upon emotion) and reveal His own will in them as it is revealed in heaven.
If we can learn to humble ourselves while yet these stirrings are in our heart, and call upon God for the grace to know His will, we can have faith that He will reveal it. I do not believe for a moment that God calls us to make decisions like this based upon our own faulty, human intuition like unbelievers do. God will instruct us precisely every time if we will mortify all the noise around us to humbly hear His voice speaking through the Spirit and the Word.
Brother Paul
If they don't do it because the bible says they shouldn't, than they are treating what they read as law. But if they get a word from God like you did then it's faith obeying God. They are taking what they hear and obeying, like you did. Do you see the difference?
Every scripture is God's word. Obeying scripture is therefore obeying his word. Forexample God does not need to speak to some one to stop committing adultery, his word is clear, if the person still does not obey then he is willfully ignoring the scripture. Even in the case of Paul here it is a scripture that came to his mind which he already knew but he was ignoring. This is the work of Spirit to bring God's word to our memory. I believe obeying the scripture first time is way above standard than realizing it later and correcting it, because that is how Jesus lived.
I believe the word says that we are to:
Hbr 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again.
But because we have come to treasure our goods so much we find it very hard to live by these scriptures. The early church had all things in common so if one suffered loss the rest met his need. We live too much in the world these days and are too fond of it. One of these days we will return to the faith of our fathers and the sermon on the mount, and we will walk free of all things.
Beautiful testimony, Paul. Just proves once again one cannot improve upon God's directives: "And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also." Matthew 5:40.
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QUOTE:
"Remember, we are the children of a Great King. Why go to a measley earthly judge when the Judge of the Universe is a prayer away?
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Beautiful!
Thanks for sharing that testimony Paul.
This week i had a situation where i also suffered a setback (minor compared to your situation back then) and my initial reaction was to just let it go but i prayed also and sought the Lord. Long story-short, i am getting together with that party later this week and we are 'meeting half-way with the situation'. And they are very happy with that. This will give me the opp to meetup with them face2face and go beyond taking care of the compensation and share God's love. The world needs to see we are different and we don't just seek money in everything. Even if its just or right to. This is a great testimony that we don't love money.
Looking at the example of Jesus, He suffered the most injustice throughout his entire 30+ years of life. If there was anyone who had the 'right' to take people to court, it would be Him. He would have been in court probably daily. He followed the leading of the Holy Spirit in everything. Thats the bottom-line.
Clearly the scriptures are talking about a believer taking another believer to court. And clearly scripture teaches that if someone (believer or unbeliever) takes advantage of us we are to forgive and even give them more than they took.
At the same time tho, we have an obligation to protect others as well. The Bible does not say "dont do anything about a person who lies, cheats, steals, etc.". It says do not take another brother to court. Sometimes a situation can be handled by the church leadership. There is plenty in scripture that supports that and spells out how that can be done.
What is at stake here is the reputation of the church. Clearly the world will have a hay-day with believers sueing other believers. It's a bad witness. It goes against the saying "you will know them by the love for one another".
As far as secular courts, if an unbeliever does something that threatens your well being... it's safe to say that this person is also a danger to other people, and in such circumstances it is highly appropriate to use the judicial system in order to ensure that others are not harmed by such a person.
I've seen people state on this forum that if a gunman entered their home and threatened their family they would do nothing... they would "turn the other cheek". I dont believe thats what Jesus meant. A man who would do nothing to protect his wife and children is not a man at all, and a lousy husband and father.
This is one of those things that is not black and white. Scripture also says that as far as it is in our control, we should leave at peace with every man. This is clearly implying that sometimes it will not be possible.
Clearly we need to seek and follow the Holy Spirit's leading in every situation. No one here can give a solid answer to every situation. This is why we need to be in the Word... praying... and seeking the Father's guidance daily.
Krispy
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