The Brother Who Does Not Love Is Never Right Even Though He May Be Correct

Isn't it being judgmental and presumptuous to imply that believers who expose a false doctrine have no love?

Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins; Let them not have dominion over me. Then I shall be blameless, And I shall be innocent of great transgression.
(Psa 19:13)

You said:

"To the ‘discernment’ Church Jesus said this:

Revelation 2:4 But I have this against you, that you have left your first love."

So are you saying that all those who discern and call out false doctrine when it's promoted have lost their first love? Or is it only the ones that you judge through the internet who have done so?

Would you have written the same thing to Paul who cared, and love, the Galatian church enough to expose their mixing law with faith? Just curious...because it appears that if he appeared on this forum, in response to an article, and did so you would.

Maybe I'm misreading or misunderstanding your post. Feel free to help me understand what you are trying to say if I've missed your point.

I'm not judging anybody brother. We have to judge ourselves.

Jesus rightly commended the Church at Ephesus for exposing false teaching but He condemned the way they did it. 

I wouldn't discourage anyone from exposing false teaching but what is our motive? I think the difference is found between one who appeals to a brother in the hope that God will grant repentance and another who is a fault finder. But we have to judge ourselves as to which we are. 

I'm glad that God has raised up men who sound the alarm. I've benefited greatly from them. But every ministry and calling has it's own dangers and extremes that we should avoid.

You can pray for me. I desire to be someone who appeals in love and I can confess that I'm not there yet. Jeremy Hulsey.

Jeremy your original post and your reply to Mr Scott are sound enough. To me they speak of a reality which all believers have to contend with. On the one hand we know that we are commanded to love one another, on the other hand we know that we are often in the flesh. Whether a man will restrain himself when in the flesh and resist being critical and judgemental will come down to his temperament and attitudes. In the spirit it is impossible to be critical and judgemental. This speaks of a greater reality than the flesh and it is the portion of all who are born again if they walk in it. It is the portion of all believers at any given moment simply because they are born again.

The gift of prophecy has been turned into a “ministry” and this is completely false. When any believer with the gift of prophecy exercises that true gift by faith it ought to be according to the mind of the giver of that gift. If not it is not the gift of prophecy but the mind of a man. The giver of the gift of prophecy is of course the Holy Spirit according to His sovereign will, and the asking is of a man. One of the most singular characteristics of this age, which I believe you have called the “discernment ministry” is prophetic utterance. Could I share with you brother that discernment and the gift of prophecy are related but distinct. It is true that the exercise of this gift of prophecy does contain a reality of revealing mens hearts; in this sense it seems like discernment, but to the one exercising the gift it is not discernment but simple faith to speak as they are led of the Holy Spirit in that moment. To a more mature brother or sister this utterance will no doubt inform their minds also. But this is not the pupose of the gift. Nor is it precisely discernment because they may only conceive of the meaning of their words after they have spoken them and they come into their minds and thereby tested by their own spirit. This is not discernment.

Discernment on the other hand is something which all believers should have, just as all believers ought to seek for the better gift, which is the gift of prophecy. There is also a gift of discerning of spirits. This too is often misunderstood and misused, and when it is used incorrectly this gift also ceases to be the reality of the leading and gifting of the Holy Spirit and once again become a mere man. Just to clarify this gift of discerning of spirits. Firstly it is not possible to discern a man with this gift. Whether he is a false teacher or a true teacher you will not be able to discern the man by the gift of discerning of spirits. You can see the man. He does not need to be discerned at all. Moreover a man cannot be discerned in this way by a gift of the Holy Spirit. Only the gift of a "man" can know what other men are thinking and their motives. The gift of the discerning of spirits is not given to discern the spirits of men. Neither is the gift given to discern God Himself. If you are born again you know God already. He does not need to be discerned. Apart from that it is God Himself by the Holy Spirit who reveals Himself. He cannot be discerned in this way of exercising a gift of discerning spirits. Demons on the other hand spend their time hiding. They need to be discerned and this is the meaning of the gift of the discernment of spirits.

I could share with you that when sound brethren speak of “discernment” ministries they are in fact avoiding using another name altogether. This is because in this particular hour of the Laodicean Church it is necessary to do this. It is being led of the Holy Spirit; not to falsely name a ministry, but so as to deny the wrong use of the gift of prophecy which is so prevalent in this hour. At the same time the Holy spirit cannot deny the true gift of the "man" who is given as a gift. Herein lies wisdom brother I truly pray the Lord Himself will give you its meaning. This too is part of being led. It is always possible to fully understand why we think as we do in our renewed minds but we do not always comprehend why the Holy Spirit moves us to speak as we do. It is simply a matter of obedience and being led of the Spirit Himself.

Brother we are required to judge one another, but only after we have judged ourselves. Only then will we be able to judge one another in love. In this true context of obedience and faithfulness we will not condemn our brother or sister, neither will we hate them. Rather we will love them realising and remembering that we ourselves have been forgiven much.

Exposing false teachers is as simple as knowing the full council of God and the sound doctrines of Christ. Yet God Himself permits false teachers just as he permits false prophecy. There is a purpose of God in all of this and it is one of the most difficult things to understand. This does not mean that we need to expose them always in that vulgar sense even if we are truly aware of it. I have seen a man in 1994 who had a childish part in the Hebridean Revival of the 1940’s introduce a former satanist to the Isle of Lewis in the very same place where the revival was first directly challenged by men of God by four in number. I have seen this former satanist destroy households and men have lost their lives because of it. His name is Michael and when he was finally dealt with his reply was “need I to return to the black mass?”. Thereafter he was finished. I am not lying at all. It is the truth and can be easily established were it necessary to do so. Wisdom informs discernment else discernment merely informs the man. Nothing good will come of discernment if it is not exercised in wisdom. This too God permits. Love is greater than all these things and more effectual as you have said.

"The Brother Who Does Not Love Is Never Right Even Though He May Be Correct"

And when someone says something we don't like it easy to tell ourselves they "do not have love". Then they exalt themselves in some high thoughts of love while falsely judging others while killing the prophetic spirit thinking that they do God a favor. How great is the hypocrisy of those who cry "do not judge" or "no love" when they themselves are doing the very thing through vain conceit.

If that doesn't qualify as being an angry watchman, I am not sure what does.

"And when someone says something we don't like it easy to tell ourselves they "do not have love". Then they exalt themselves in some high thoughts of love while falsely judging others while killing the prophetic spirit thinking that they do God a favor.

How great is the hypocrisy of those who cry "do not judge" or "no love" when they themselves are doing the very thing through vain conceit."...Jimmydied2sin

Thanks, Jimmydied2sin It has always been so; accusing the prophetic spirit of warning as "lacking love" because it confronts pride and selfish sin. All of the prophets were persecuted for this very reason.

I might ask you, How can you determine what love is? Love is rooted in Loving the TRUTH, not in the happiness or well being of another. The Truth will slay us all if we embrace it, and eventually we see that the Truth is a Person; Jesus Himself. "A seed MUST fall into the ground & die Before it bears much fruit." That is US too.

The Spirit of God is Named the HOLY Spirit,and Holiness is at the roots of Purity, and it is this that Satan Wars against. The Devil seeks to undermine the purity of the Gospel, and mix the Truth with the Lie, thereby defiling the garments of the Saints: while God is always striving to keep them pure and UNSTAINED from idol worship & the honor of man, and the Religious spirit that kills.

I would exhort some here on SI who justify this mixture that you have embraced with soberness.

"I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten."
[This is the true nature of walking with God, the Loving One. He is Truth.]

Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me"

"Little children, keep yourselves from idols." Amen.

I have seen some I love die and most likely go to hell recently trusting in the demonic catholic church to save them. I love my lost family and coworkers, in 2006 I could send them here to listen to messages and as a help towards Christ. This forum was on fire with the Spirit of the living God. Today if I sent a catholic here they would come back to me and say Greg Gordon says mother theresa is quite alright and the people in the catholic church are going to heaven so what is your problem Jim?

For all those who speak of love while supporting rome in any way - I don't think you are very loving for helping damn those whom I love! I know I must sound like an angry watchman, but would you please be kind dears and stop strengthening those whom I love in lies that keep them from pure devotion to Christ and send them to hell!

Thanks and much appreciated in Christ.

Jim

"And when someone says something we don't like it easy to tell ourselves they "do not have love". Then they exalt themselves in some high thoughts of love while falsely judging others while killing the prophetic spirit thinking that they do God a favor. 

How great is the hypocrisy of those who cry "do not judge" or "no love" when they themselves are doing the very thing through vain conceit."...Jimmydied2sin

How do you know brother that those who cry “do not judge” do so in vain conceit? By what calling and by what power do you discern such things? The prophetic spirit cannot be killed only a man can be killed. If by this saying of yours you mean that a prophet can be killed then say it. Or else if you mean that a believer can be killed say that. Perhaps you mean that one with a gift of prophecy can be killed and thereby the “prophetic spirit”. If so say that also. What do you mean to say? If you desire to comprehend the true prophetic spirit then comprehend Christ Himself and you would not make such ambiguous statements.

Is there a prophetic spirit? Is it even sound to speak in this way as though somehow it were a spirit of the air. For many the prophetic spirit is precisely of the air. Yet there is a prophetic spirit. It is in the first instance the Holy Spirit, in the second it is Christ Himself and in the third it is men given as a gift of prophet to the body of Christ for a purpose. There is also a fourth meaning and it has to do with all believers who at any given instance could speak as though they were speaking for God Himself. Even a little child could be found in it.

What should we say is evidence according to the spirit of prophecy? Is it words or is it power? If it is words then we are become sorcerers and have no comprehension at all. If it is power then it may be a man and this too is sorcery. But if it is the power of God working in and through a man then it is first evidenced by love.

Anyone can use words. Any one can become a sorcerer. These things are quiet naturally of the flesh. First comprehend that the purposes of God and its evidence are the power of the Gospel of Grace manifest through the mind of Christ in love. Only the one who walks in the spirit can truly exercise the power of God to correct others and to say of them “you are wrong”. If this is not true of each one of us we will have merely caused a curiosity in some men and rebellion in others. Sides will be taken because we will have been speaking through the air and not by the power of the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ in us. If we learned to speak by the power of the Holy Spirit through the life of Christ in us, we will see a good effect and the many who are lost in the Roman Church will be found.

Many men will be found in hell. Yet not all who are found in hell are to be thrown into the lake of fire which is the true eternal place of the rebellious. It is not death which determines the end of men, but the second death.

I too have been over critical of people at times, even though my heart was in the correct place, my spirit was not.

I beleive in giving a harsh message/warning/rebuke when needed, but I need to make sure that my heart is correct with the Lord before I jump in that endeavour.

Brother,

Thank you for writing this, it is sad but many christians are being corrupted by reading 100's of discernment sites and news articles that slander, expose and malign teachers such as apprising.org Though there can be some helpful things posted overall these days it is a slander-fest with no accountability. Many public forums are the same.

I have had a harsher critical spirit in the past and I believe the Lord has helped me to see the greatness of mercy and grace. One of the messages that was the start of the process was the Angry Watchman message that Carter Conlon preached at the 2007 Canton Revival Conference.

I believe those men such as Washer, Ravenhill, Wilkerson, etc had the walk with the Lord, platform, and also authority over them to say such things.

These forums are not a place to condemn and preach what is wrong everything only but it is chiefly a place to exalt the truth, what is right. To expose all that is dark will only glorify the darkness in the end.

The example of this is when I used to open air preach I noticed men could preach against sin and show people how wicked they were but then they could never preach of the glories and wonders of Christ and the goodness of Him that would make people want to come after Him. Whenever whitefield preached on hell, he wept.

The title of this thread may or may not be correct. Love is by far the greatest way to sharing the gospel, sadly, sometimes it comes through another avenue, not as effective, yet still be effective. (A cold chill has just entered the room, hehe)

I have no arguments if anyone should disagree with these verses, I am merely pointing them out.

Phil 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Philippians 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

I take this to mean that even though some are called to preach, they are doing it reluctantly, yet they will do it anyway. They may do it for money, but Christ is still preached and to this Paul rejoices. I have known people to have come out of sever pastoral bondages and get free and go on leading fruitful lives. I can understand why Paul is rejoicing.