Peace, but at what price?

In 1939 Neville Chamberlain the Prime Minister of England thought he could negotiate a peace accord with Hitler. He went to Hitler and asked what it would take appease him. Hitler asked for part of Czeckoslavakia. Without any consideration to the Czechs. Chamberlain hammered out an agreement with Hitler who promised not to take any more land.

Chamberlain returned to Britain with the classic statement. We have peace in our time. Thus England rested under the illusion of peace. And Hitler grabbed more of Europe. A compromise was made and England paid for it.

Now there is peace in tbe forum. Jeff has departed. Now there is peace, sweet peace. But at what cost. Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?

Something I hope all will ponder. I respect Jeff and his stand for tbe gospel. For sure this man has shown more courage than what I have seen displayed here. Yet no one will listen to his warnings.

So sleep dear forum. But when you awake it may be too late and there will be a terrible price to pay.

Bearmaster standing down.

Brother Blaine you shouldn't believe everything you read in history books. At this very instant I am sitting in a building which was designed in 1936 and built in 1938. It is just one building amongst 10 others like it. Each building is between 16,000 and 80,000 square feet. This gathering of buildings is just one of 20 similar gatherings built in preparation for war with Germany. Each site had 50,000 men working to erect them in just one year 37/38. The cost today would be several billion pounds sterling. They are small bomb proof and built to the highest standard. They were built by men because of the foresight of other men who comprehended that war was inevitable. England could not stomach Hitler and was always going to be his enemy.

Neville Chamberlain was a weak minded man who at the time of the piece of paper believed that he was dying. In the end he lived for another 15 years after the war itself. God raised up another man Churchill who said at the time, how dreadful and fearful it was that God could raise up such a man as himself who took delight in war and had such a dread mind to persist in it.

Today this building I am presently sitting in is dark and cold yet it belongs to the saints of God and therefore God Himself. It will be used for many things one of which will be as an end time sanctuary for the most fearful. Things are not always as they seem brother. Behind every Chamberlain there is a Churchill. Chamberlain was English aristocratic. Churchill was also a nobleman yet he was also the son of an American mother whom he preferred over his father.

Without supporting Bearmaster's intention in starting this thread, I'd like to point out that your take on Neville Chamberlain is not accurate.

The Munich accord which Chamberlain had brokered was met with widespread approval in the media. Upon his return to Britain, he was invited by the king onto the balcony of Buckingham Palace where he was met with thunderous applause.

Yes brother I understand the historical point and the enthusiasm which Chamberlain received after the “agreement” with Hitler, which Blaine convoluted. I have no doubt that Mr Chamberlain hoped beyond hope that war would not come as did those poor men and women who believed Mr Chamberlain. However their was a preparation for war which belied the hope and drew more from other men who approved the preparations. In any event this is a spiritual forum not an historical one as such and I was really trying to make a spiritual point as was Blain of course. I wanted to leave room for the Lord. But here it is brother.

Churchill was called a war monger before the war and he was in a real sense a political “prophet”. He was actually despised in Parliament and regarded as something of a trouble maker and non entity so far as the aristocratic political elite were concerned. Yet when war came so did sobriety and Churchill the rejected man became a nation treasure. Many times Britain could and would have sought to deal with the National Socialist party of Hitler even at the beginning of the war itself.. In the Channel Islands where the German Army invaded it is possible to see British Policemen saluting and obeying German authority right in the midst of war. Not only this but The British establishment required it of their police officers. We even collaborated in preparing lists of Jews on the iIsland to be singled out for "special" treatment". In the end Churchill would have no such agreement and fully intended to run the course at all cost. After the war Churchill was once again rejected and was defeated in a political election in which he should have won hands down. Britain was not only financially broken but the people has suffered deprivation on such a scale that it was not possible to reward politically the man who had personally driven them to it. Yet before the war for several years Churchill warned of the inevitability of it all.

This is the political context. The spiritual one is that of Brother Jeff who is now as it were rejected, yet will prove sufficient to rise when the storm actually comes. Today is a day of preparation and not the time for war. Before the war comes it will be peace peace. This battle is not of flesh and blood it is the binding of principalities and powers in High places. In the end the war will be in heaven itself and it will never be on this earth until Christ Himself return and by the breath of His mouth He will destroy His enemies. Brother Jeff will know this reality already. As do many others. Today we do not preach peace peace, but neither do we preach war war. It is a day of preparation. This my understanding for what it is worth brother.

How wrong you are "bearmaster"...how wrong you are.

Now there is peace in tbe forum. Jeff has departed. Now there is peace, sweet peace. But at what cost. Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?

Something I hope all will ponder. I respect Jeff and his stand for tbe gospel. For sure this man has shown more courage than what I have seen displayed here. Yet no one will listen to his warnings.

So sleep dear forum. But when you awake it may be too late and there will be a terrible price to pay.

"courage?".....how many here, have absolutely repudiated the roman institution, over and over again?

many, myself included. No, what Jeff and Sscott did was to make the most base accusations against a man who DARED quote a woman, who are one of the many people who LOVE and FOLLOW Jesus, yet are trapped in this dark institution...it takes NO COURAGE to sit behind a keyboard, and cut, eviscerate and devour, with words, men who have shown themselves worthy in Messiah.

and you write "I respect Jeff and his stand for tbe gospel."

to do a cyber hit and run on a discussion forum is a "stand for the gospel"?...its no wonder you Gentile followers of Messiah Jesus in the western world have become so limp, how many "denominations" have been carved out of the Body of Christ?

and you ACTUALLY believe that Greg Gordon, any of the moderators, or myself GIVE COVERING to the roman institution, which is the accusation that both Jeff and Sscott made?

i can only speak for myself, but i'll tell you, that my people, the tribe of my flesh, the Jews have suffered ravages beyond reckoning at the hands of evil and vile men, not only those WITHIN the roman institution, who on their "crusades", would murder whole communities of Jews, while saying, "kill a Jew for Jesus, save your soul"....or "you killed our god, now we kill you"....and i'm sure, in their wicked minds, they thought THEY..were making a "stand for the gospel".

or what about Martin Luther, who started his ministry so fine, yet in his madness, finished up with the infamous screed, "On Jews and Their Lies"....you ever give that a read?....hitler and his demonic legions sure did, and i'm positive Luther when he penned THAT thought he was "making a stand for the gospel".

which is rather ironic, considering that the roman institution , speciffically the vatican, and papa, the man of perdition, was the first "body" to officially recognize the nazi state, while at the same time, holding up Luther's evil pen as a blueprint for what was to happen to the Jews....so the enemy KNOWS he can use either the roman institution or the innumerable "protestant" denominations to wreak utter hell on earth,with a little help from the global atheist organizations that have been formed.

and you lift up a man, who decided to accuse a brother, who posted up some writings from a nun, who while imperfect, as we all are, tended to the sick and disfigured, hungry of India, as a man who made a "stand for the gospel"?....and insert in your posting the question "Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?"

God help us, because confusion reigns, and reigns supreme. Do you have any idea where you are, the land you live in? the land and people who decided to open the gates of hell in March 2003,and become the 'new crusaders', a land that spends more on weapons than all the nations of the world combined, and to this day continues with this mayhem, Libya, Syria? Do you really think those "rebels" islamic "jihadists" are driving around in bright shiny Toyota pick-ups, with the newest anti-aircraft missilery, because they held a bake sale at the nearest mosque?

think.

and all the while, brooding silently in silo's and sub's, are the very tools God will use to bring down fire and judgement upon a worthless people.

in return i say, sleep well dear "Bear"...the Day is coming.

Now there is peace in tbe forum. Jeff has departed. Now there is peace, sweet peace. But at what cost. Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?

Something I hope all will ponder. I respect Jeff and his stand for tbe gospel. For sure this man has shown more courage than what I have seen displayed here. Yet no one will listen to his warnings.

So sleep dear forum. But when you awake it may be too late and there will be a terrible price to pay.

Brother, I am discouraged that you would say such things. I do respect you and your burden for intercession also. As Neil said I am not defending the Roman system but desiring to defend the precious saints who have been in it and most were maligned and persecuted, ie the Fenelon and Madame Guyon's etc.

But towards brother Jeff my problem was the way that he attacked personally, privately and publically almost all at the same time. And the tone was not of the Spirit of Christ but his own flesh mostly. Galatians 5:22 says: Love, Gentleness, Meekness, Long-suffering, patience, self-control.

Sadly I did not sense or feel this from any of the interactions. I am a lover of truth and desire it but not at the expense of Christ-likeness. God raises up those who have spoken towards and against the Catholic system and I am thankful for those who God has. And we have posted their sermons and featured their messages.

But this forum is not a personal pulpit for a brother to flood the forums with warnings, I did not sense God nor love in any of it. I have had a personal almost 3 hour phone conversation where I sought peace with this brother and felt we obtained it. That was several weeks ago.

I do not feel that this site gives covering for any cults or any false churches brother.

"Now there is peace in tbe forum. Jeff has departed. Now there is peace, sweet peace. But at what cost."

God bless you bearmaster, this has been happening hear slowly over the years, Jeff just forced it to the surface. 2005-6 I would send any believers I met here, now I wouldn't dare (speaking of the forum - the other resources are a spiritual gold mine). Sure there are some precious brethren here still and the Lord is moving, but their are many wolves, and much compromise even among the true saints here. There was a shift, if you will, that took place sometime, an underlying spirit. Maybe it started innocent in response to carnal divisions of cal/arm or pre trib/post trib or some other thing. It swung to the other side though and their is a lying spirit of false unity at work for sure that I would never expose a weak believer to.

" Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?"

Look at another former ministry that was precious in God's site. Voice of the Martyrs. They refused to stop their subtle endorsing of catholicism and they recieved of her plagues just as the sowing and reaping principals of God demand. I say that with much sorrow. I say all of this with much sorrow, though surely some lying spirit will tell some key person that I am angry watchman and they will believe it because it is the easiest thing to believe. it has always been that way and those "in power" have always killed the Jeremiahs and the Steven's. The shift is in place.

For those who immediately listen to the religious spirits that make you want to yell "this man speaks against our forum and traditions" aka (he is attacking the forum). Think upon these things soberly in humility of heart first. It so sad to see Jeff demonized through those who were themselves believing lies of demons and thinking that they were doing God a favor while standing for love and truth. If the light in you is darkness how great is that darkness? For those who think Jeff was attacking the forum - I tell you those who killed Stephen also thought the same thing.

In Christ- Jim

NEIL said "o do a cyber hit and run on a discussion forum is a "stand for the gospel"?...its no wonder you Gentile followers of Messiah Jesus in the western world have become so limp, how many "denominations" have been carved out of the Body of Christ?"

Jeff has been on this forum for like 8 years. Using deceptive debate tactics to slander people is not of Christ. In another thread you told frank something like "this is how it will happen, with the persecution coming from the inside" while talking about Jeff. If you were talking about inside your own heart that would be a true statement.

When you are ready come out of the woods and visit Detroit. I know a homeless man, an old nam vet, that after offering him some food in the name of Jesus sat me in a chair. He proceeded to tell me in detail how he was going to kill me in front of the other brethren if I mentioned Jesus again. He has a lifetime permit because of his special ops status to carry guns and the police wont even mess with him. The Lord gave me grace that day as I preached Christ anyway. He was just testing us to see if we were true believers. He let us give him one minute of Jesus talk after that whenever we ran across him and gave him food. Come on up and we'll go track him down and see how spiritual you are instead of sitting behind the keyboard falsely accusing Jeff who is out doing hard works on the streets for the kingdom.

May Jesus bless you Neil, those aren't empty words either. I love you and you are welcome anytime. Even if it so you can rebuke me in person dear brother. My old email address is gone but you can contact me easy enough.

In Christ -Jim

Elias said " Still quite shameful though to see many of you all at your age still fighting over silly things."

As my mom laid dying in her hospital bed and the priest was called to her side my wife and I went out into the hallway and prayed that God would kill the priest on the way to the hospital to avoid his name being blasphemed. I was in utter anguish over the death of my beloved mother and the Lord name being blasphemed by some demonic priest. The spirit of the Lord came upon me and gave me grace and we prayed instead that he would just get a flat tire or not be able to make it to do last rites.

Meanwhile, I had not had 5 minutes alone with my mom when all of the sudden the room clears besides a nurse. I ran to her side, grabbed her hand and said something along these lines through my tears "Mom - dont worry about those foolish last rights, you know what Christ did in my life, you can't deny it. (I was a terrible druggy before Jesus saved me) Jesus Christ died to save sinners who come to him for salvation. You can call upon his name from your heart in truth like the thief on the cross and be saved.". She was half unconscious but squeezed my hand as a tear ran down the corner of her eye between all the equipment". I do not know what happened, only the Lord knows, that was the last time I ever spoke to her. I told the Lord I would love Him if He saved her and I would love Him if He sent her to hell.

So Elias - please take your silly comment and go get a shot from heaven, purchase eye salve from Christ that you may see and not be another lying voice on this forum. That is my sincerest prayer for you friend. -Jim

PS - the priest never made it for last rites and the nurse who was in the room when I started talking to my mom fled like lot from sodom. I will never forget that site.

elias said "lol. Jim, your post was completely irrelevant to anything i said"

No it wasn't, you said that the conversation over roman catholcism was a silly debate. For those who are burdened for souls it is not silly at all. For those who sat in awe as the VOM fell to the plagues of rome there is no silliness in it at all. May your lol's be turned into a deeper burden for your masters bride as your precious quote by David Wilkerson says. You can have the last word if needed, but I wish you nothing but the best in Christ Jesus either way friend.

-Jim

I would be curious as to how many ex-Catholics there are who are commenting? I know Maryjane is an ex as am I. To people like Maryjane and myself this is no mere academic exercise. We came out of this organisation that has held sway for 1700 years. If i were on this forum and had not came out of Catholicism I would pay careful attention to the words and the wisdom of those who have. I always find Maryjane to be thoughtful and kind and loving, slow to answer and quick to want to understand. I think yo will find that genuine born-again Christians who have come out of the Catholic church will have the maximum amount of love for Catholics and have the minimum amount of tolerance for false teaching and know better than anyone, the oft-time subtleties of the Catholic apologist............. bro Frank

2005-6 I would send any believers I met here, now I wouldn't dare (speaking of the forum - the other resources are a spiritual gold mine). Sure there are some precious brethren here still and the Lord is moving, but their are many wolves, and much compromise even among the true saints here. There was a shift, if you will, that took place sometime, an underlying spirit. Maybe it started innocent in response to carnal divisions of cal/arm or pre trib/post trib or some other thing. It swung to the other side though and their is a lying spirit of false unity at work for sure that I would never expose a weak believer to.

Brother, if you are going to say these things publicly and believe this then I would recommend that you consider stop participating in the forums yourself if you feel that the agenda that myself and others are promoting here is evil or wrong.

"So Elias - please take your silly comment and go get a shot from heaven, purchase eye salve from Christ that you may see and not be another lying voice on this forum"

Elias, I wanted to come back and apologize for the way I said this to you. I definitely don't think that this forum needs any more comments that contribute to the validation of catholicism being just another denomination, but the way I said this was uncalled for and I sincerely apologize.

-Jim

"Brother, if you are going to say these things publicly and believe this then I would recommend that you consider stop participating in the forums yourself if you feel that the agenda that myself and others are promoting here is evil or wrong."

Greg-

That is up to you, I will always try and say such things peaceably with the knowledge of my own shortcomings hand in hand but where relevant I will say them. If you feel that is not ok for the forum, or that i have to be a spiritual "yes" man, I can not dishonor Christ like that who paid such a high price for His bride. I prayerfully took a seven month break until a couple of days ago when I saw your quotes that started this but don't really feel the need to withdraw again at this time. If you feel otherwise that is another thing.

So we are perfectly clear I consider you a dear brother who I hope is not above correction because you have the "big name" ministry and rub shoulders with the "big name" preachers. You have been given much and are responsible for much. I would admonish you the same way if you were sitting in my living room and we were looking each other in the eye.

In Christ -Jim

Greg-

That is up to you, I will always try and say such things peaceably with the knowledge of my own shortcomings hand in hand but where relevant I will say them. If you feel that is not ok for the forum, or that i have to be a spiritual "yes" man, I can not dishonor Christ like that who paid such a high price for His bride. I prayerfully took a seven month break until a couple of days ago when I saw your quotes that started this but don't really feel the need to withdraw again at this time. If you feel otherwise that is another thing.

So we are perfectly clear I consider you a dear brother who I hope is not above correction because you have the "big name" ministry and rub shoulders with the "big name" preachers. You have been given much and are responsible for much. I would admonish you the same way if you were sitting in my living room and we were looking each other in the eye.

Brother,

This is not a private conversation but public for the entire world to see and read. I really feel if you had a genuine godly concern you would pray and also even privately approach and share these things with the moderators.

I believe what you are sharing is not truthful for I do not have a hidden agenda in anyway to protect or promote the Roman Catholic church system. To think that these forums are a bad place to send believers should also be enough of a concern for you to leave participating in them.

If you feel you have a responsibility to preach the truth in the forums that you feel is doing damage to christianity then that type of ministry is not welcome in the forums. There are 4 other godly brothers who are moderators who I believe know the truth of christ and have a great love for the body of Christ and are able to do this role.