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Huckabee: Schools ‘A Place Of Carnage’ Because We ‘Systematically Removed God’

sermonindex Dec 15, 2012

Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee attributed the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in part to restrictions on school prayer and religious materials in the classroom.

"We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools," Huckabee said on Fox News, discussing the murder spree that took the lives of 20 children and 6 adults in Newtown, CT that morning. "Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?"

Law enforcement has released few details on the alleged gunman, but Huckabee suggested that the separation of church and state may have spurred his rampage. ...

read more: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/huckabee-schools-place-of-carnage-because-we-systematically

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White_Stone Dec 15, 2012

Job 1:21 . . . . , the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD

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AbideinHim Dec 15, 2012

Mike Huckabee is right on his assesment of the tragedy at another one of our schools. Not only have we shut God out of our schools, but we have endorsed the ungodly philosophy of "humanism".

May we not miss what God is saying to us as a people and a nation.

Mike

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AbideinHim Dec 15, 2012

History of Bible and Prayer in schools

History of Schools

The name of the first education law in America was the Northwest Ordinance Act which required that territories that wanted to become a state needed to first agree to an education plan that would include teaching Religion, morality and knowledge.

The founder of Public schools under the Constitution was Dr. Benjamin Rush.
In 1791, Dr. Benjamin Rush wrote a document stating that the reason we should start public schools in America is to teach the Word of God.
In 1791, Dr. Benjamin Rush wrote a book titled, “Use of the Bible in schools.”
Dr. Benjamin Rush lists as one of the reasons the Bible should never be removed from America’s schoolrooms, “Because if the Bible is removed their will be an explosion in crime requiring educators to spend so much time on discipline at the expense of academic education.”

Phonics and the alphabet taught in the New England Premier was taught by connecting each letter of the alphabet with a rhyming sentence that taught Christian doctrines or Bible verses.
The following was a question from the 1st Grade New England Premier:

What are the benefits that in this life do accompany or flow from justification, adoption and sanctification?


Effects of taking the bible and prayer out of schools

Since the Bible and school prayer were outlawed by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1962 and 1963, America has seen a 694% increase in violent crimes after crime had been decreasing for decades before.
Founding father Dr. Benjamin Rush said I believe there is the most knowledge in those countries where there is the most Christianity.

By studying the nation’s six nationally recognized national tests that are given from first through twelfth grade we find that students that attend a Christian school where the fear of the Lord is taught have a higher level of knowledge.

The U.S. Department of Education statistics reveal that the SAT scores coming out of Christian schools are identical to what they were in the public schools prior to the 1962 and 1963 U.S. Supreme Court rulings that outlawed teaching the fear of the Lord by having voluntary prayer and Bible reading.

Dr. D. James Kennedy points out that most nations are destroyed because they compromise their nation’s foundational beliefs loss of faith in the values that made them great, and the lawlessness and disorder that arise as a result.

Benjamin Rush said, “Let the children….be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education. The great enemy of the salvation of man, in my opinion, never invented a more effectual means of removing Christianity from the world than by persuading mankind that it was improper to read the Bible at schools.”
The top discipline problems in public schools in 1940were: talking, chewing gum, not putting paper in the waste paper basket, making noise, running in the halls, getting out of turn in line.


After the Supreme court banned God from schools in 1962 and 1963 the top discipline problems in schools way back in 1982were: Rape, robbery, assault, burglary, arson, bombings, murder, suicide, vandalism, absenteeism, extortion, drug pushing, drug abuse, alcoholism, gang wars, pregnancy’s, abortion, venereal dieses, homosexuality, and aids. When we jerked God out of schools we taught them this.


Famous facts

Noah Webster dedicated his dictionary to the glory of God and the advancement of the Kingdom of Christ.
Noah Webster placed his personal testimony and how the reader could become a Christian in the front of his dictionary.
In his dictionary Noah Webster would provide sentences after defining a word to show how the word is used. 27% of these examples were Bible verses?
In 1690, the New England Premier was the first textbook printed in America and used in American schools for 210 years. This book, which taught untold numbers of children to read including our founding fathers, was reprinted by Noah Webster, Samuel Adams, and Ben Franklin for their children.
In 1774, Thomas Jefferson personally introduced a resolution calling for a day of fasting and prayer.
While serving as the Governor of Virginia (1779-1781) Jefferson decreed a day of public and solemn thanksgiving and prayer to Almighty God.


Outlawed

In 1962 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that voluntary school prayer was unconstitutional in America’s public Schools.
In 1963 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Bible reading in America’s schools was unconstitutional.
In 1985 the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed silent prayer in our nation’s public schools


Government

The founders said they wrote the Declaration of Independence out of the book called, “The two treatises of Government.”
This 360 page book that discusses the biblical role of government sites the Bible 1700 times.
24 of the 56 men that signed the Declaration of Independence had seminary degrees.

Political science professors collected 15000 original writings of the founders and found 3154 direct quotes from in those writings. When the professors tracked each quote back to its original source 34% of the founders quotes came from the Bible.

George Washington and Alexander Hamilton say they got the idea for our government’s separation of powers from Jeremiah 17:9.

The concept for our three branches of government, legislative, executive, and judicial, originate from Isaiah 33:22 where God is described as the judge, lawgiver and king.

The founders got the idea of tax-exemption for churches from Ezra 7:24.

Deuteronomy 17:6 discusses judges and can be found in Article 3, Section 3, paragraph 1, of the U.S. Constitution.
Ezekiel 18:20 is found in Article 3, Section 3, paragraph 2 of the U.S. Constitution.

John Adams said the founding fathers used the general principles of Christianity to achieve independence.
The “wall of separation of church and state” is a myth.

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staff Dec 15, 2012

Hi,
This is heartbreaking beyond description,I cant watch the news programs.
I am not sure the direct link specifically with this school shooting and the removal of God from the class room.(granted that this erosion is totally detremental)
It isnt clear to me from the reporting whether the school had a christian ethos or not or the mental state of the shooter.
I doubt whether in this specific shooting whether it would have any effect on the young man who did the shooting.
No doubt the debate will drift quickly to Gun control vs the right to bear arms.The USA has a problem with this type of violence and that could be linked to removal of God from schools.I may be wrong but doesnt Canada have roughly the same amount of guns but dont have the same violence,why is that?Other countries have eroded God from Schools but dont have near the level of violence that is in the US.
.The attack by the anti gun lobby on an American's right to bear arms is an attack on your freedom but not on your Christianity.Remember that the founding fathers of our faith Paul,Peter,John etc didnt need weapons to live the life of a Christian or should I say that the weapons they used were different.
I like Mike Huckabee alot and he is right generally but not specifically in this instance.
It is just heartbreaking beyond what a parent can take,
God help them all whether they are believers or not,
Staff

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jimp Dec 16, 2012

hi, on another fox news show a psyc. said to please do not call this a sickness ,it was way beyond sickness; it was pure evil.jimp

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AbideinHim Dec 16, 2012

It is heart breaking to see the families and friends of those innocent children that were gunned down trying to cope with what is going on, and looking for answers as to why this happened.

The news media and president Obama are showing genuine concern and grief over this tragedy, and president Obama has made the following statement: "The majority of those who died today were children, beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10. "They had their entire lives ahead of them, birthdays, graduations, weddings, kids of their own."Obama sighed."Our hearts are broken today for the parents and grandparents, sisters and brothers of these children and the families of the adults we lost."

But where is the concern over the estimated 54,000,000 babies whose lives have been taken due to leagalized abortion in this nation since Roe vs. Wade was enacted in 1963? Didn't they have their entire lives ahead of them? Didn't they have a right to live?

Mike

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PaulWest Dec 16, 2012

But where is the concern over the estimated 54,000,000 babies whose lives have been taken due to leagalized abortion in this nation since Roe vs. Wade was enacted in 1963? Didn't they have their entire lives ahead of them? Didn't they have a right to live?

I know what you mean brother. As I posted yesterday in my Facebook update, "When we begin to see a mother's womb as God's elementary school, and an abortionist's forceps as a loaded Glock, Washington's sympathy will hold more water with me. A flag at half-mast without the Holy Spirit's breeze is a platitudinous offense."

Brother Paul

sermonindex Dec 16, 2012

What occurred in Newberry Connecticut is grief beyond imagine. And breaks our hearts. And we will pontificate over the rise of humanism that has permeated are schools and society in general. We lament the taking of prayer and Bible reading out of our schools. And the doing away with the gospel.

But saint let's get real here. Where does the fault lie? This and other countless tragedies has happened on our watch. How can we cry out about the lack of Bible reading in our schools. When we do not have Bible reading in the church? And I speak of the evangelical church. How can we talk about lack of prayer in our in our schools. When we do not pray in the church?

Those Christians who decry the lack of prayer and Bible reading in the schools should ask is their church doing the same? Does their church pray? Does their church read the Bible?

Saints it is easy to point our finger at the evil ills of society. And say it is under judgement because it does not know God. But does not the word tell us that judgement begins with the house of God. And if it begins with the house of God what will be the outcome of those who do not obey the gospel of God.

What has happened at Stony Brook elementary school is tragedy beyond reckoning. But what is even more tragic is we let this happen on our watch. Thus what has happened in Newberry Connecticut is ultimately our responsibility. And the church needs to repent.

May the church wake up and repent. And may she turn back to her God. And be the light that Christ called her to be.

Bearnaster

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TMK Dec 16, 2012

I agree with you Bear. The fault for much of what is wrong in America belongs to a complacent Church.

Hillsong United sings a song with the line: "The time has come To stand for all we believe in"

This line is a throw-down challenge. Do we stand for what we believe in, or are we just whistlin' Dixie? Isn't it time that we put our money where our mouth is? How long are we going to allow ourselves to be intimidated? Intimidated by what, you ask? Well, whatever is holding us back from being all that Jesus wants us to be.

Sometimes it seems that our Enemy is shoving us in the chest, over and over again, like a big bully, and saying, "What are you gonna do about it, punk?"

Well, what are we gonna do about it? Are we going to be a bunch of namby-pamby "sort-of" believers, or are we going to be the Church of Jesus Christ- this same Jesus who "disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities...[and] shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross"? (Col. 2:15)

The choice is ours. The most important thing we can do is come together in prayer. I still don't think that we have even yet begun to grasp the power of praying together. I attend a pretty good sized church that is very strong in the word but only 5 people regularly show up for prayer meeting.

I don't know- maybe we need a Pep Rally. They seem to get people fired up for football games. What will get us fired up for Jesus?

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AbideinHim Dec 16, 2012


"What has happened at Stony Brook elementary school is tragedy beyond reckoning. But what is even more tragic is we let this happen on our watch. Thus what has happened in Newberry Connecticut is ultimately our responsibility. And the church needs to repent."

Bear, I agree with you 100%. What has happened in our nation is the result of the Church not being salt and light, and not standing up for the truth.

God said that He would heal our land "if His people" would humble themselves, seek His face, and turn from their wicked ways (repent).

Mike

sermonindex Dec 16, 2012

For thou, O Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel, hast revealed to thy servant, saying, I will build thee a house: therefore hath thy servant found in his heart to pray this prayer unto thee. 2 Samuel 7:27

This same Samuel who, when Israel asked for a king to reign over them said “Moreover as for me, far be it from me that I should sin against Jehovah in ceasing to pray for you: but I will instruct you in the good and the right way. Only fear Jehovah, and serve him in truth with all your heart; for consider how great things he hath done for you. But if ye shall still do wickedly, ye shall be consumed, both ye and your king.” 1 Samuel 12:23-25.

It has been the churches themselves who have changed the apostolic simplicity and direction of the churches. Even in the last 60 years or so the changes have not been forced on anyone it has been sought. Those who spoke against these changes have been lamented and bound by their elders to remain silent or else to be cast onto a bed of rebellion. Those who remained in obedience were snared and those who rebelled were cast down. From one folly onto another the churches have asked God and God has permitted it according to His purposes.

Unless the Lord Himself expressly speaks then there can be no true prayer. How can a man pray when God does not speak it first? If God does speak how can it not be heard? Is the arm of the Lord short?

The difficult part is understanding what God’ purposes are in this hour! Individuals can always change their minds and repent. But the whole house is a matter for God Himself. No one can direct the house of the Lord. Responsibility lies with those who have authority and not with the flock. There calling should have been sufficient to know how to pray and to comprehend the reality of the times. In this they sinned because in the deceitfulness of their own hearts they did not comprehend, neither did they pray according to sound reason. As for the flocks their sin was in seeking for a "king" to judge them, preferring a man rather then God Himself. The man will flatter the people of the Lord if he himself asks for that which is foolish, and in his foolishness he will lead the sheep astray.

Samuel himself had the courage to speak the truth according to God, and Israel still declared, “we will have a king to judge us.” Today many men have neither sought God neither have they comprehended the sheep who may ask for that which is contrary to God. In order to establish themselves they have flattered the sheep. In this the churches have borne a double consequence. The blind leading the blind. Does this mean that the church is directly responsible for what happens in the world? Certainly not. What have we to do with the world? Our business is with God and Christ. Yet in the perversity of the hour we live many saints will bear in their own bodies the outworking of this foolishness. Just as Israel did in their day.

It is true that God will heal the land. But it is not the land of nations, it is the house of God which must be healed first. If this does not happen how can the nations be healed? Is it really likely that if apostasy can be found in the church, that the church in the nations will do that which God Himself cannot do in the face of the rebellion of men? Only the Lord has the power to heal the nations not the churches.

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staff Dec 16, 2012

Hi Bearmaster,
How is humanism directly related to this shooting?Why have they not got this problem in Canada?or other places?as much as the US.If we had a repented church this shooting in Sandy hook wouldnt have happened?
Yours Staff

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rainydaygirl Dec 17, 2012

Hey just thought I would let some know as there have been a number of typos in this thread. The schools name is Sandy Hook Elementary and it is located in Newtown Connecticut. I realize its not a big deal to some but just to avoid confusion and be sure we are all talking about the same thing thought I would put that info out there.

rdg

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staff Dec 17, 2012

Hi Rainydaygirl,
Thanks I changed my typo,
Staff

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DEADn Dec 18, 2012

I think that for anyone to say this tragedy happened because we are taking God out of school is very misinformed. I say this because in reading about the shooter and his background I question what does it have to do with taking prayer out of school or the God factor at all?

*The shooter has Aspergers disease which is a form of autism.
*He didn't like his picture to be taken though there are pictures of him.
*His parents went through a divorce and he really upset him inside. Apergers and anger can make for a time bomb.
*His mom had some guns and even took him to the gun range to shoot these guns. Could his mind be ticking away on a fantasy of some kind?

These are some highlights that I have read. The major component in this story is anger at his parents for the divorce and he had Aspergers disease and he was numb to pain/feeling, somehow. Being that his mom was a teacher and he also had attended this school when younger he sought it was a revenge killing for his past, most likely.

So, how we blame prayer being taken out of schools for this?

What I also find alarming something quite ironic. Westboro Baptist church says they are going to picket these funerals and that God sent the shooter because America is lost. Aren't some in Christendom saying the same thing only on the backside? Meaning many are saying this happened because Prayer has been taking out of school and now we have a vacuum and sin then comes in. Both are saying God is judging America and/or that Sin is showing itself because we have walked away from God. Only that Westboro takes a more non compassion approach to the scenerio.

I say this happened because of a kid who has/had issues and noone near him seemed to be able to help him. His mom, helping him around the gun, aided and abedded this tragedy. Remember that I wrote a post about this type of thing about how does a person in this state respond to the Gospel? If they cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality how many of them can react to God in an authentic decision in order to change?

Again, what does this have to do with prayer taken out of school?

I have a cousin who is similiar to this kid and is in jail for domestic violence toward his mom and dad. They all went to church off and on but his mom (my aunt) never allowed him to do constructive things except for watching cops and wrestling. Violence. He cannot distinguish reality from fantasy. His violence didn't come from lack of prayer. If he would have gone to the elementary school he went to and did this deed would it be because prayer was taken out of school? No, it would have been because of some issue he was dealing with inside and decided to bring it out in the open.

This is a reason why I sometimes have issues with some Christians because every circumstances seems to have to be because of absence of prayer or God in society. Is it really that simple? I wish it was but some circumstances don't dictate that. If I am wrong please enlightenment.
John

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allaboard Dec 18, 2012

I still think the root cause are the thousands if not hundreds of thousands of SSRI "Prescription" drugs given to boys with "ADHD".

http://www.totalityofbeing.com/FramelessPages/Articles/violence.html

Facebook Suspends Account For Questioning Official Narrative on Shooting

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/12/facebook-suspends-account-for-questioning-official-narrative-on-shooting-2-2516944.html

An image posted in the aftermath of the shootings that questioned whether “a clumsy 20-year-old autistic kid” could have pulled off the murders of 26 people was deleted and the user’s account hit with a three day suspension.

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/photo-2.jpg

sermonindex Dec 18, 2012

Dare I say that perhaps the young nan could bave been possessed by a demon. That same spirit that gets suicide bombers to strap on explosive vest and take the lives of others in tbe ME.

But then this simplistic answer may not fly well here. So perhaps the young nan was ADD. Or strung out on drugs. Perhaps ge did not get enough hugs. Perhaps his mother was too hard on him. And so forth.

Whatever you come up with. It is still a tragedy.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Dec 18, 2012

Many interesting thoughts on this thread. I think we may all agree that there is not one single problem that produces these events. Yet, there is a perfect storm that is beginning to envelop us. The generations of seed sown are coming forth from the ground. The Bible tells us that God is not mocked, what men sow they reap, as go men so go nations.

I have lived in America for 21 years. Moved from Scotland to England and then to America, so three different cultures. So indulge me to make some observations as an " outsider," who has lived on the inside of American culture for 21 year.

Some parts of the perfect storm.

1. An obsession with guns and rights. I find it depressing that often-times at the fore-front of gun debates are " Christians," fighting for their rights.

2. An irrational fear and paranoia about the Government. I find it depressing that " Christians," are often at the fore-front with this irrationality that "they're coming to take our guns."

3. An inability to call evil evil.

4. A saturation of violence in the media, movies, video games and now things like mixed martial arts ie cage fighting.

5. Ronald Reagan closing down institutions in this never ending desire to save money. Yet the same people, as displayed right now, will bring the economy down rather than allowing wealthy people to pay another four cents on the Dollar. My wife and I have lived in the special needs community for 19 years because our youngest has Down Syndrome. So, we have much contact with people with Autism and Asberger's and so on.

My wife's friend and co-worker had a son who started to display violent tendencies at about age 19. She wondered if drugs were involved. She tried to get help. She did not have very good insurance. She talked to the police. She was told that unless he commits a crime there was nothing she could do. Her son murdered her very violently. The many people who should legitimately be in institutions, find themselves in jails and living under bridges. A one cent sales tax raise could alleviate much of my own state's problem, but there are men committed to never raising taxes, its a mad obsession.

6. A generation of mostly young men from single parent households who have been on serious drugs from the age of 6 or 7 now coming of age. These young men are called BDs ( behavioural disorder)

7. The birth pangs have begun and the Angel of death stalks the land. I believe this to be a real possibility. Hell is beginning to spew forth in great numbers and therefore much more is to come.

Just a final thought. This country was founded (1776) on rebellion against taxes( no taxation without representation, Boston Tea Party) and taking up arms against the the Government of the day. Now what are the most serious problems that are vexing the secular world here in America right now? A fiscal cliff over taxes and a violent upcoming debate over guns. Seems that God is not mocked, what a man or a nation sows it reaps..........bro Frank

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ADisciple Dec 19, 2012

Good word, Frank. As a society we love violence, actually. I had to walk through a mall this afternoon past some movie theatres. And what was playing? I didn't stop long enough to get the titles, but the ads out front were all pictures of violence. Violence is our favourite entertainment; we love to feed on it! But when it breaks out into real life... suddenly we are aghast. Now we don't love it quite so much.

"Be not deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man soweth that shall he reap..."

The encouraging thing is that this also applies to those who are sowing to the Spirit. We are going to see a wonderful harvest of life and righteousness, and this right in the midst of this storm of destruction!

Allan

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