Is the United States the Kingdom of God, the Constitution the Bible, and the gun the means of ...

What part of "MILLIONS" of crimes have been thwarted by responsible American citizens who were armed eludes you? It doesn't matter how you try to twist the facts, guns in the hands of responsible Americans have prevented millions of more crimes than guns in the hands of criminals and nutcases have committed. The gun control issue is not about gun control, it's about people control. Bear, I am no prophet, nor am I saying this is the beginning of the end, I think your a smart man, and if you don't think the spending policies of the current administration is not going to come crashing down on us, I can only pray God has given you a good plan. Everyone must remember the three great LIES: (1) The check is in the mail, (2) I'll respect you in the morning, and (3) Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.
God Bless You Brother.

Bearmaster, why do you feel the need to spread a divisive topic into another thread and ask questions for which you already know the answer?

Do you really think that anyone here really believes those things that you asked? Seriously?

Obama earlier this year became the first sitting president to endorse same-sex marriage. His administration also successfully pushed for the repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy banning gays from serving openly in the military.

Yep them there right wingers are just all crazy folks.

As followers of Jesus we are citizens of heaven. Yes? Ok. However does this mean that I am not a part of society? I do not believe we can say this because we are told to love our neighbor and to care for the needs of the widow, orphan, opressed, etc. We are commanded to be observant and meet the needs of those around us. It is up to us to be good stewards of all that God has provided for us. I personally believe this includes the priveleges and yes rights that we possess as citizens of our respective countries. do not forget that the apostle Paul was indeed a heavenly citizen and yet when it came time for earthly judgment he called upon his right as a roman citizen to appeal to caeser the highest (secular) authority in the land. again when he was beaten and imprisoned what was his response to authority? He did not accept everything the romans dished out, he said, You have beaten us openly and uncondemned being romans. It got him out of a particularly bad spot. It appears that Paul knew that even a heavenly citizen while on earth does indeed have a resonable expectation to appeal to the rights acknowledged by their country of origin or adoption especially when apealling to those rights would allow them to further the cause of Christ. i would also like to point out that we are told that we will be persecuted for the sake of Jesus. happy are ye when men revile you ,and curse you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake. My point is that we are expected to suffer for the cause of Christ. the 2nd amendment, constitution, and bill of rights are not religious documents. their removal effects us in a very reall if different manner. They contain the rights of all citizens of the US. In trying to usurp these things the powers that be are not persecuting us for being Christians and nno where in Scripture do we see taht We are not to take pleasure in tyranny and being trampled on for its own sake. To use the Bible to say that we should sit down and shut up (or if we choose to be religious about it just close your door and pray)because we are told that persecution will come is to miss the point. As to obeying authority in America the people are the authority. the government is a servant to the people and when one man or a group of men try to take that will and force their own warped view on the many (who they claim to represent)we have the right (like Paul) to appeal to the highest (secular) authority in the land and in the United States that is our founding documents.I really do not see the conflict. God has blessed me to be where I am: seated in heavenly places with Christ and placed on earth as a US citizen. No one takes spiritual offense when believers take a stand on the promises granted to them though the sacrificial death of Christ. why do we take offense at standing on the rights granted to us through the blood of our forefathers? No there is no comparison to the two that is the point. again these are two different things and many soundly saved, God fearing, and even pacifist leaning Christians have acknowledged that they can honor God and embrace their place as a patriotic citizen of their earthly nation of habitation.

I'll stop here. i do not mean to go on and on. The truth is that much of what we see is the beginning of times that will only get worse. My thought is that if we will repent of our sin and turn back to the Lord we may have time yet to see national and even world wide revivals. We should all strive to be model citizens both of heaven and earth.

I have tried not to offend. Forgive me if I have. If I am wrong I ask the Lord show me the error of my thinking.

The United States is not the Kingdom of God, the Constitution our Bible and the gun is not the means which we convert sinners.

Can someone please show me how it is Biblically wrong to stand up for the rights that we have granted for us in the Constitution? I would like the chapter and verse.

Acts 22:25 - And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned?

In Acts 22 Paul protected himself from being scourged by using the laws of the wicked government that he was subject to. He too was taking advantage of the rights that he had by being a citizen of Rome.

Does that mean he was bowing his knee to Rome and worshiping the documents that backed the rights of the citizens of Rome?

According to a couple people on this forum; Paul would be labeled as nothing but a crazy nut-job GOP, clinging to the Roman dream…

It is obvious that you judge anyone who would stand up for their rights as an American citizen to not be living the Gospel. Someone who stands up for the freedoms we have in the Constitution is nothing but a sinner to you.

What makes you think that a person who is willing to stand up for his/her rights is not living for the Lord, or sharing the Gospel, praying for revival, worshipping their Saviour?

What makes you judge a person who thanks God for the freedoms we have (granted by the Constitution that you hate) and say that they worship the “American Dream” or a right-wing nut or that the Constitution is their Bible?

I guess if someone goes to a child’s piano recital is a sinner and not living the gospel, someone who teaches their child how to ride a bike is not living for Jesus.

These judgments are coming from a person who has been on Sermonindex for nine months and has over 1100 post. That is averaging over 4 post a day. Are you living the gospel or spending all day on the Internet attacking Christians?

Do you spend more time on the Internet or in prayer?? That is a question that we all need to ask ourselves.

You judge a person who wants to defend the freedoms they have as not being a true Christian and accuse them as worshipping America. You have no idea how they live their lives.
Sounds like a Pharisee.

By the way just a little geographical and history lesson:
Citizens of Afghanistan are not Arabs.

Signing off now. I am going to spend some time reading a book that right wing nut job Paul the Apostle wrote and praying to the God he lived for. Enjoy your day on the Internet.

iceman, I have been on forums of all types since I have owned a computer, auto, a/c and heating "my trade" computer, etc. I have yet on any forum seen anyone ever change their "made up" minds because of anyone's post or opinions. People come to forums to express an opinion and not necessary the facts. I once heard someone say, "a critic is a prisoner to his own experiences and perspectives, erroneously believing his limited experiences are the sum of all truth". Yes we are all guilty of posting opinions and some even post opinions before they know the facts. I take it that some are like the little school boy on the ball field, if you don't want to play by my rules I am taking my ball and going home.

Forums are the 21st century way to vent, I call it cyber-venting, and that's ok, if you feel better because you were able to express your opinion, that’s great, maybe it will save some from beating their child or wife. Here's the bad part, you have some that go so far to express themselves, that things turn ugly, and when that happens, they have lost all their credibility with me. Then you have the ones that when folks are not in agreement with them, they want the Mods. to shut down the whole thread, isn't that being mature and fair?

For me personally, I like to come to express “my opinion” not to try and convert “at all costs” someone into seeing things my way, and when things begin to turn ugly, I bail out, usually by that time I have already express my opinion and there is no need or worth to continue to stir the pot. There is a slight difference when you come to a Christian related forum that you don’t have with other forums, you have the self proclaimed prophets that will almost get into name calling if you don’t agree with them, these are the ones that you really have to be careful with, “some” of them really go berserk if they can bring you over to their camp. Bottom line is, some want at all costs the majority to agree with them, they just can’t live with without this, so they will find new ways to stick out, start new threads related to the old one, or just make a big stink on the thread, by wanting to Mods to shut the thread down, or spend unlimited hours trying to convince folks by googling more information that sort of agrees with their opinion, and we all know if google says it, well it’s got to be the truth. 

Iceman, I can appreciate your post, not because it’s in agreement with my opinion/opinions, because it shows wisdom, common sense, and scripture. We are not God, we cannot say to the home invasion drug infested nut case when he breaks out door in, go away in the name of Jesus, and expect him to do so, well you can if you like, but I choose to shoot first then pray for him, that’s using the God given wisdom and common sense God gave us. Let me ask you this, if you were a killer, robber or burglar and you knew you had a very spiritual person that live in this home and he was going to pray you away, or you had a Christian next door that had a double barrel 12 gauge shotgun which home or you going into? Killers and drug heads are evil folks, do you think for one minute God does not want us to deal with evil? We hold from God the gift which includes all others. This gift is life - physical, intellectual, and moral life.
But life cannot maintain itself alone. The Creator of life has entrusted us with the responsibility of preserving, developing, and perfecting it. In order that we may accomplish this, He has provided us with a collection of marvelous faculties. And He has put us in the midst of a variety of natural resources. By the application of our faculties to these natural resources we convert them into products, and use them. This process is necessary in order that life may run its appointed course.
Life, faculties, production - in other words, individuality, liberty, property - this is man. And in spite of the cunning of artful political leaders, these three gifts from God precede all human legislation, and are superior to it.
Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.

whoever said guns should be the means by which we convert sinners? whoever claimed the constitution was the bible? i guess sum people have nuthin better 2 do with their time than try to stir the pot. kind of a sick way to entertain urself.

bearmaster

I surely hope that when you posted your deal you were using a phone text to do it because the spelling is atrocious. Some people would not give that the time or day to respond to. Consider your spelling errors.

John

Beloved,

I would ask that we be respectful of one another in our conversations with a view to brotherly kindness and charity. I believe we can have discussions about which we may disagree without lowering ourselves to behaviors unbecoming of Christ. If we cannot maintain a Christlike tone we will need to close this thread. Please do consider this.

Kind Regards,

Robert

I just wanted to step in and say a few things in defense of Blaine(bear). First he is legally blind and so sometimes has spelling errors because as another mentioned he has to use an alternate method to take part in the forum. I pray we can do as Robert advised and extend the love and kindness that CHRIST would call us to one another as these topics are talked over. Also I would just like to say another mentioned that Bear has a large number of posts, I thought I would point out that may be due in part because he does weekly pray conference calls and post updates about those calls. He also post reminders for prayer for those who are suffering persecution.Not that he has to justify how he spends his time I just did not think it fair to leave the impression he spends all day posting threads to cause strife or stir up debate when that is not the case. Also I would just like to say I do not think that our brother in CHRIST posted this thread to cause any drama but perhaps the intent of his heart was to get us thinking about our own priorities. To often topics that might stir up devotions and the love of CHRIST are ignored here in the forum, topics of devotions get passed by while topics about gun control or the like are all the buzz. I have seen it, anyone who has been apart of this forum has seen it over and over again and honestly I think in bear's own unique way he might just be trying to get us to think, who do we belong too? What are we suppose to be about?? How are we suppose to be living our lives?? Perhaps he is asking this question in am attempt to get us to see that our focus is so often on the things of this world but seldom do we share, or encourage one another in the things of HIS KINGDOM. As I look at my own involvement in the forums over time I wonder what outsiders must think when they stop by...of course we love the lost and the LORD but do the things we talk about, do the topics that get the most attention here reflect that JESUS is LORD of our life and that HE holds the number one spot in our hearts??? This is something I pray about often, our words whether spoken or typed do matter...

God bless
mj

I also love brother Blaine. I don't get bent out of shape due to misspellings or numerous posts either.

My only concern was due to the presumption that can be interpreted via the initial questions -- which seemed accusatory -- and from starting a second thread about the same hotly debated topic as found in another thread that seemed somewhat divisive on the SermonIndex homepage.

It is not my intention that anyone is offended by this concern. However, I do have some legitimate concern about asking a question that seems to have some sort of accusation tied to it.

I read through the other thread and prayerfully decided against participating in it. However, in that thread, I never saw anyone suggest that "the United States is the Kingdom of God" or that "the Constitution is the Bible" or "the gun is the means by which we convert sinners." In fact, I didn't find anyone here who seemed to embrace that view at all. Thus, the question itself was somewhat puzzling.

I hope that makes sense. I apologize if my post implied anything beyond what was written. I simply think that we need to avoid division when it is unnecessary...or from spreading a debate from one thread into yet another new one created for it.

Bear/Blane should put a little note down in his Signature area, letting the folks that don't know him, know about his disability. I know most of us regulars know, but I also don't believe for one minute, that someone would come "here" and make remarks about his spelling on purpose.