Gay marriage could signal return to ‘centuries of persecution’, - say 1,000 Catholic priests

Our pastor spoke Sunday from Revelation and the church in Smyrna and the persecution they endured. The scripture is clear that we will be hated because of Christ. We obviously haven't been hated for Him here in America. I was thinking yesterday that this was coming to and end pretty quickly. I think this post is one important reason why persecution will come.

Soon, not only will we have building fund drives, we'll also have bail fund drives. It might give a whole new meaning to jail ministry and make it a lot easier. Don't know why I find that funny, but alas, I do. If we are to be sure and true to the Word of God we will necessarily offend people. When that offense runs contrary to law we will be jailed. What's interesting is that most will view us as the bad guys. We will be the ones breaking the law.

One thing that concerns me when it comes to homosexuals and homosexual marriage is the power of God. How often do you ever homosexuals being interviewed about their life and when they knew they were gay? Some even grew up in the church and say they gave their heart to God but then this happened and they didn't get deliverance. Even today, I heard an interview with Jean or Gene Robinson in which he said he said a sinners prayer and was baptized at age 12 in Kentucky but now he is homosexual. He said he prayed an prayed for it to go away and even got married to push it away and he could not.

In light of the 'diversity' effect in American and the PC voices what I am finding is the power of God has become void. To no effect. It seems as if it doesn't exist and therefore many are leaving the churches. Many are seeking deliverance and somehow not finding it. I am especially paying attention to the homosexual shift and listening to each story that I hear to understand the back. I find it too easy to just that the bible speaks against it. We know that, then how in the world are these people not being delivered? Are they destined for hell because what they are practicing in which they say they can't get deliverance from?

I am careful not to fall into an emotional trap in this subject because the emotionalism of it has caused people to raise their voice in promotion of gay marriage. It is all about love and if 2 people love each other then she should be able to marry. But where is the power of God in all of this? Has God removed Himself from it?

John

@DEADn Dear brother, it is not God's lack of using His power to deliver homosexuals from their sin, it is either the lack of their willingness to turn from it or the church's lack of proper evangelism. Here is proof: David Upton, a homosexual for 27 years, was completely delivered from homosexuality once he was saved. Here is his testimonial video by illbehonest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdQ6_MAH2A It is an amazing example of the power of God. He is ready to completely deliver homosexuals if they are willing to repent.

"Friend, what if the God of the Bible views "us" as the bad guys too. His word seems to imply that religious hypocrites receive the greater damnation."

Good point. My statement was about those who truly were God's adopted sons and daughters. I like what you've said. I had written in a very similar vein concerning homosexuality on my blog, which is now down. It's a shame for the church to attack homosexuals, who are people in need of a savior, and allow other forms of sin to go on without the same level of condemnation.

However, I don't see where legislation will make any difference. The only thing legislation will do is drive sin underground. If we could simply legislate morality then there would have been no need of a savior. We could all just try real hard.

I think the bigger issue is the hypocrisy you're talking about. Abortion is bad, but we support any and all wars. Homosexuality is bad, but not as bad as cheating on your wife. It's also become an issue of "us vs. them" instead of the "us -->for

Like usual, John, you do keep asking the hard questions! But that is OK....

So why are people not delivered from their sin/temptation? As I read your question and pondered on it, thinking about John 15 as well, I am wondering if it is possible that people are focusing more on deliverance from a sin rather then abiding in the vine - Jesus Christ? This principle applies to all sin. When we work to liberate ourselves from a besetting sin, focusing on the sin all the time, is it possible one takes his eyes off the Redeemer and focusing it on himself, his willpower and thus experience failure?

Somehow I seem to believe this must be the case based on Jesus message to his disciples about abiding in the vine, John 15.

My thoughts at the moment...

ginnyrose

I think these people's fears are right on.

Unfortunately, it no longer is merely a fear but it already is happening in some places - you no longer can voice any opposition against homosexuality without experiencing serious reprisals like job loss, firings. For some reason one can voice opinions about music, morals - heterosexual and not experience serious consequences. Wonder why?

“If I profess, with the loudest voice and the clearest exposition, every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christianity. Where the battle rages the loyalty of the soldier is proved; and to be steady on all the battle-field besides is mere flight and disgrace to him if he flinches at that one point.”

Eph 6

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Stand on
Romans 1

@DEADn Dear brother, it is not God's lack of using His power to deliver homosexuals from their sin, it is either the lack of their willingness to turn from it or the church's lack of proper evangelism. Here is proof: David Upton, a homosexual for 27 years, was completely delivered from homosexuality once he was saved. Here is his testimonial video by illbehonest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdQ6_MAH2A It is an amazing example of the power of God. He is ready to completely deliver homosexuals if they are willing to repent.

I think this answer is way too easy in context of the 'testimonies' I have heard. Will God deliver all homosexuals who cry out for deliverance? I think the answer is no and yet I don't know why.

I have an ex friend who is homosexual. Ex because we split because of his personality issue. Control freak. Anyway, he was a worship leader at the church as a teenager and young adult. All of his music at home was praise and worship music. Integrity, Hosanna and whatever else is out there. Over 200 cd's at one time. He spent his time at home singing these songs and preaching to the angels. Meaning preaching to the air - angels are invisible remember? All the time struggling with homosexual feelings and finally he gave in to them. Last time I spoke to him he told me how brokenhearted he was that his boyfriend broke up with him. BTW, his favorite preacher, at one time, was Rod Parsely. I see people such as him and wonder why does God hold Hand back?

How often do you hear of homosexuals who have been delivered vs. homosexuals who have not been delivered? Of those who have not been delivered to you resign yourself to saying that they need to do something to be delivered from this? Maybe they are not trying hard enough?

I bring this up because the homosexual march is on and Gay marriage is gaining steam. Homosexuality is very amplified in the bible as wrong. BOth OT and NT yet the cultural clash between society and the Bible is coming to a head. Society is emotionally siding with homosexuality while warring against the Bible being ignorant of it. Yet, caught in the crossfire are people who say they want deliverance and somehow cannot find it. Somehow God has not delivered them. WHY?

I caution myself when I hear emotional pleas from those who haven't gotten deliverance because I know truth isn't bound my emotional. Truth is bound in faith because it doesn't trust in what circumstances are around a person. Yet I ask myself where is God in this picture? Are these people telling us they want deliverance but they really don't and think they do but their heart really don't? It isn't an easy answer but I know what the fundamentalist view is. It is WRONG and sin to engage in yet where is the deliverance??

Ginnyrose - yes, this is a tough question but if Christians can't stand to answer it and confront it somehow then it becomes yet another reason why there is no power in the Church because society has infiltrated and God has left. I lean on the scripture of being able to answer every man when I can.

@DEADn I can see why you are struggling with this issue, but you must remember God is just and has have the power to totally transform lives. You are right that not everyone who calls out for deliverance will be delivered, but do you not think God will deliver those who truly hate their sin and desire communion with God? And notice I said "truly." It is easy for people to have false motives, whether known or unknown. We sometimes see or hear people suffering because they were rejected from their homes, churches, or friends because they were homosexual and feel pity for them. Is what happened to them wrong? Often times it certainly is wrong. But when they complain or accuse God because He is not delivering them, I believe it may reveal an unrepentant heart. I am not saying they are not willing to repent of homosexuality. They could very well be unrepentant because of another sin.

The point I am trying to make is that there is no injustice with God regarding their condition. People have many problems, and God honestly does not owe us anything, but He is very merciful and gracious. The testimonials, the true testimonials, should not be rejected because they are few in number or for any other reason. They testify to a great truth about a great God. Our job as Christians is to point these people to our great God and never doubt His power to save. He Who delivered us from our sins and gave us power to overcome them is perfectly able to do the same for anyone else.

@DEADn I can see why you are struggling with this issue, but you must remember God is just and has have the power to totally transform lives. You are right that not everyone who calls out for deliverance will be delivered, but do you not think God will deliver those who truly hate their sin and desire communion with God? And notice I said "truly." It is easy for people to have false motives, whether known or unknown. We sometimes see or hear people suffering because they were rejected from their homes, churches, or friends because they were homosexual and feel pity for them. Is what happened to them wrong? Often times it certainly is wrong. But when they complain or accuse God because He is not delivering them, I believe it may reveal an unrepentant heart. I am not saying they are not willing to repent of homosexuality. They could very well be unrepentant because of another sin.

The point I am trying to make is that there is no injustice with God regarding their condition. People have many problems, and God honestly does not owe us anything, but He is very merciful and gracious. The testimonials, the true testimonials, should not be rejected because they are few in number or for any other reason. They testify to a great truth about a great God. Our job as Christians is to point these people to our great God and never doubt His power to save. He Who delivered us from our sins and gave us power to overcome them is perfectly able to do the same for anyone else.

You used the word 'truly' and it gives me thought about something. How does truly come? Does it come by actions and not merely by words? Just like when a person comes to Christ. If the person leaves the 'altar' and goes away unchanged they did not truly become a Christian? If a person does the same thing but leaves the altar changed inside and they begin to bear fruit then they are 'truly' a Christian? If the latter happens what if, down the road, they end up becoming skeptical and end up being agnostic or atheistic. Where does 'truly' come in in this situation? I use this example because it is happening with many people.

Yet when some claim certain things the heart can be deceitful and really not want to be set free although the mouth says it wants to be. I realize this yet how much of this deception is taking place?

I realize this is a bit deep but if I , personally , want to grow this is where I need to go. I can't be satisfied just answers and maybe that is vain of me but that is where I am. I appreciate your input in this matter because what I pulled out here does have the wheels turning.