Do CHRISTIANS LOVE GUNS?? by Andrew Strom

For me it comes down to Bible translation

If John the Baptist was preaching a radical message and was telling the soldiers that came to be baptized
(KJV) "Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.' than we must conclude that the message of the kingdom is completely different from the old testament, that not only endorsed military action with the enemy but punished those such as king Saul who did not slaughter all whom God had instructed him to.

But if What John is saying is what the New American Standard and most other modern translations translates, that What John was saying to the soldiers that came to his baptism is that (NASB)Luke 3:14 "Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, “And what about us, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages.”
Than the message of the kingdom is not a radical one, the old testament law of shall not kill still contains Exemptions which would include military combatant participation and self defence.

This issue has been much of a struggle for me in that I have been so indoctrinated with the exemption doctrine.

I have searched the Scripture for years up and down for the truth on this subject, being very indoctrinated in the protestant exemption doctrine. even though many will argue with me it comes down to this verse and as a Believer in Gods sovereign ability to inspire His Words in my own Language down to the jot and tittle despite the supposed contradictions and all of the educated nay sayers, I have to Lay down my exemption doctrine

One cannot logicaly make a case for nonresistance ,If John was just telling the soldiers “Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages.” Because if this is all he was telling them, when they asked him what they should do, than John was endorsing combatant status by not explicitly speaking against it.

Even though I as a bible believer have had to Lay down my exemption doctrine, I am still grateful and thankful for those freedoms that we have in the US and am thankful to the soldiers whom thru the centurys believed that they where loosing their lives for my liberty, For any one whom would murmur about such freedoms perhaps the such should seriously consider moving to a part of the world that is hostile toward freedom.

its not about guns. its about freedoms and rights as americans guarunteed by the constitution as intended by our founding fathers. today it's guns, 2morrow it will be your speech and next week it will be religious freedoms. watch as america becomes more and more accepting of homosexuality. it all goes hand in hand. the more special rights are afforded to homosexuals the more basic rights are taken away from the other 93% of american citizens. its progressive and can not be reversed.

It fasinates me how easily those who bask in the liberty and freedom which has been afforded them by the sacrifice of others, can so casually critisize those very freedoms.

Should we prohibit stealing, murder, coveteousness, adultry, ect. because our home is not of this world?

This is not about chistian rights this about the human responsibility to protect those who are unable to protect themselves.

It is about standing up against terrany and those who would use the power entrusted them to mannipulate and enslave the very people who gave them that power.

Politics can never bring peace that endures and our founding fathers were well aware of that. Many of them trusted in Christ for that, but they did not feel that it negated their civil duty to their fellow citizens.

May God give us wisdom to know when to fight for what is right, and never lose sight of the One in whom our hope rests.

In Christ alone,
Tim

the thing most people miss is that the 2nd amendment duz not exist so that we can hunt deer. part of the intent was so that each man or woman can protect their homes and families. but if u read the writings of the men (many of whom were christians) who framed the constitution the main intent for the right to keep and bear arms is so that the GOVERNMENT would not be too quick to overstep its boundaries, which over the past 50 yrs it has become quite adept at doing.

If we saw an old man being drug off to his death just because he is old, would we do nothing?

If we had the means to stop wrong, would it be right to do nothing?

If you are hungry do you work to earn money and buy food or do you sit and wait for some sort of miracle, or just assume that it is God's will for you to die? Of course we provide for ourselves according to abilities God gives.
To do anything else would be sin.

If God gives us the means to protect one who is weak or defensless and we sit and do nothing, I believe that is wrong.

And though I value my spiritual freedom that was purchaced at a much higher price than human blood, it not obsolve me from the responsibility to value the freedom given me by human blood.

To fight to keep those freedoms does not mean that I am unable spread the gosple or share the love of Christ, no more than walking in protest of abortion.

many americans, including government officials, did nothing as hitler's war machine rolled across europe in the 1930s. the british tried to appease hitler. what was the cost? 60,000,000 lives. that was the cost of sitting back and doing nothing. i believe the blood of those people is on many different hands, and the church is not exempt.

I agree SkepticGuy.

Well SkepticGuy said about all I would have said. I own a 30/30 rifle and a couple handguns for "Protection". I live in a rural area were sometimes people stop out front of the property to do whatever.One night about 3:00 am in the morning, we had someone trying to get in our gate, he was making so much noise, I could hear in inside the house. I went out "with my rifle" and my pistol on my side, and ask him whats up? he ask me if I had a cigarette, go figure. I called the sheriff on the way out, just in case, they showed up @4:30 1.5 hrs later which is common out here. I don't own a firearm because of any Bible scripture, or own one for any Biblical reason, I own one because I like to use the wisdom God gave me, to protect my family. I have always said, when seconds count, cops are only minutes away.

I guess as long as the glory of God is absent people will be wrestling with questions such as these.

Let me put that the other way around. Let us get seeking the glory of God. Isn't this what we Christians are supposed to be about? I assure you, with the glory of God in our midst we won't have to concern ourselves with questions like this any more.

AD

When we are in heaven there is alot we will not have to concern ourselves with.

Their is something special about Jesus and the disiples having 2 swords and the ability to resist being delivered to the Jews, but rather choosing to willingly lay down His Life.

What a testimony it is to have the ability to defend ones self but willfully lay it down for the sake of the kingdom.

Jim Elliot, Nate Saint, Ed McCully, Roger Youdarian, and Peter Fleming is another wounderful example of Men whom willfully layed down their lives for the sake of the kingdom, They had guns and the ability to use them but since they believed in their heavenly home, They only shot their guns in the air and refused to use them on the unsaved Waodani Indians that only had spears, By this act of loving their enemys these men lost their earthly lives but many of these Waodani Indians got saved including two of the killers Kimo and Dyuwi whom later we know Baptized Steve Saint the son of Nate whom they had killed.
What a Testimony

amrkelly...Brethren the cops might be asleep in bed but Christ is a very present help in times of trouble.

It did not matter rather the cops were sleeping or awake, when I was in Vietnam fighting the political game between the USA and the USSR, with no sense and purpose and witnessing my Buds getting shot and killed, and blown to pieces. Trust me I know first hand what calling on God is like in times of trouble, so I sure don't need that sermon. When your pinned down in a foxhole with two dead buds listening to mortars rattling in the tubes yelling incoming! for hours at a time, God is the only person you can call on, because no one else can hear you. I could write you a book on "Calling On God".

amrkelly..And yet Mr Pro you insist that you need a rifle and a holstered pistol to confront a man seeking a cigarette.

To bad you were not my guest that night, you would have already known what he was up to before I walked 150 yards out to the front gate at 3:00 in the morning to see, I could have just stayed in bed. Can you pass some of that abundant discernment you have my way? Another perfect example of a brother judging another brother from cyberspace, trust me you would not even come out of my house were I live at 3:00 in the morning, if I told you all the stories from the happening around the farm. And I thank God for the wisdom he has given me, or no doubt I would be dead by now.

Sometime we need more than a Brother or Sister saying, “Just call on God” I will be praying for you” “Let go and let god” “Well, it was god’s will!” or “just let Jesus take the wheel.” Sometimes I would just like someone to say to me, as I have many, many times in my life said to many Brothers and Sisters, I love you and I am here for you. Don’t get me wrong, all the above is good, but when your being physically attacked/shot at by the enemy in “real time” hearing I love you and I am here for you, gives someone the feeling, this person would actually join in on the battle. I would have loved to seen how many Christians would that say, “Just call on God” I will be praying for you” “Let go and let god” actually join me in that foxhole.

Another thread going south, guess it's time for me to bail out,I just cannot hold my own against the judgmental.
God Bless!