US pastor held in custody

Details for the case are here and how you can keep this brother in prayer: http://millercase.org

We will keep this brother in our prayers on persecution watch. But as I posted in another thread. Will we ignore the words of our brother Paul Washer who spoke of upcoming persecution to America. Surely this case should be tbe wake up call.

Bearmaster.

Hello Sree: I have had some of the same questions and if you read some of the articles and go to both website links you should find some of your questions answered. One thing to note is that Lisa and Kenneth are NOT related. I found this recent article which provids enough facts to understand the case: http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20130124/NEWS02/301240025/Pastor-jailed-for-refusing-to-testify-in-Vermont-child-custody-case

I have a few close Mennonite friends and know saints who lived and had fellowship in Stuarts Draft and they have been supportive and praying for Kenneth Miller. Yes, both Jenkins and Lisa were joined in a civil union, however Lisa repented and is now a Christian. The court allowed for her partner to still have viewing rights of Lisa's biological daughter, but Lisa had convictions against this and fled the country to protect her daughter's innocence. In one way or another Kenneth helped her and now the government wants him to rat out others who were also involved. Please find a below quote from the attached link from Kenneth's third Anabaptist lawyer:

"Miller’s third lawyer, David Bercot, an Anabaptist lawyer from Amberson, Pa., said after the hearing that Miller answered some of the questions from the grand jury. He balked at others concerning getting Lisa Miller and Isabella out of the country because of their shared beliefs.

“These people they wanted him to testify against are fellow citizens of God’s kingdom,” Bercot said. “And it’s like, you wanted me to be a rat, you know, to turn on my fellow citizens. That’s basically what it came down to.”

In 2000, two women, Janet Jenkins and Lisa Miller of Rutland, Vermont entered into a civil union in Vermont following the passage of civil union legislation earlier that year. Each changed her surname to Miller-Jenkins. In 2002, Lisa gave birth to a child conceived through artificial insemination, which the couple named Isabella Miller-Jenkins. The couple separated in 2003, triggering a protracted legal battle over the custody of Isabella

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v._Jenkins

"Lisa had become a believer and left her former lifestyle."

I had two kids out of wedlock many years ago before I was saved. Should I now kidnap the children from their mother since she does not serve the Lord? Or are we just picking on homosexuals again?

Sincerely in Christ -Jim

Why don't non-custodial christian parents kidnap children from ex's that are liars, that fornicate, or are greedy?

Maybe next we will see kids be removed from evangelical homes that supported the murderous unjust iraq war or where the custodial parent is a church member that views pornography. That would be more in line with scripture (said only half way joking).

Think on these things brethren. Is this right?, is this something to rally behind. [EDIT 2013-01-26 from a statement to a question].

1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

ginny,

I just read your original link, all it said was that Miller had custody but the lesbian had visitation until Miller took the child to avoid her having to visit with the lesbian. Then at the end it said:

"He is acting on what Lisa Miller told him are the facts of the case," Bercot said. "It's all based on that, it's not just, 'oh, someone's a homosexual we are going to take their child from them.' That is not what we would believe.""

Yet that is all I have read is that because she is a homosexual we are going to take the child. If you have more links I would gladly read them and repent if needed.

God bless you sister -Jim

Thank you ginnyrose for your comments. I believe this might be the real thing as a dear believer (i.e., Kenneth Miller) has truly been led of the Lord and with the new laws in the land he has to make a choice to submit to the higher Authority. Jesus said: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." I received the report from some trusted brothers that this is a faithful brother.

Again, the question that bearmaster has asked us: Do you think persecution is coming? We will be holding this brother in prayer and coming together in agreement on the Persecuted Watch call.

Yes dear Father let the persecution come so you and your Son may receive the glory and honor that is due Your name. For You are faithful to prepare us. Worthy is the Lion and the Lamb. You are HOLY!

"Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Just as it is written,“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”

But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

KM

Ginny,

I have now read every link from this thread and even links from those, links written with a bias on both sides. I still do not see what you are talking about it and really would appreciate it if you think I am that off on this one to help show me.

In Christ -jim

Ginny-

On the miller case site all they do is back up what I am already reading

"It was in very painful circumstances that Lisa came to the Anabaptists in Virginia for help, which as a follower of Jesus, Ken could not ignore. Ken supported Lisa’s desire to remove herself and Isabella from former relationships which were not in accord with Jesus’ standard. However, he felt only love and compassion for Lisa’s former partner and others involved."

Again, is anyone willing to help me kidnap my kids from their unbelieving mother? She is a liar, greedy, and a blasphemer. These things are not in accord with Jesus' standards either. To me it seems that either this is equally valid or we are just picking on homosexuals again.

"http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/experts-testify-to-trauma-experienced-by-isabella-miller-in-sworn-testimony"

Ginny, if there is sexual abuse taking place then of course that is a WHOLE different ballgame... that is not the way this is being billed even on the miller case site though. Even what I quoted from their site, the reason they are involved is because of the homosexuality issue. I have had to suffer many things like King David did over the years for sinful choices I made. You wont find me claiming that I am being persecuted by the friend of the court because I have to pay child support or have my children being raised predominantly by an unbelieving parent though.

I'll leave it at that. Praying for Gods will to be done and the best for all true believers involved and the child. Here is a comment someone had made on the link you posted, it mostly fits how I feel and I will part with it...........

Hi ,

Firstly I totally agree that that Isabella should be placed with her mother Lisa Miller BUT I must say this “my people perish for the lack of knowledge" Hosea 4:6.

1. Lisa Miller is not the victim. She entered in to a relationship with Jerkins then borne a child so they could parent together. Now yes she has turn away from that life but she can't expect for everyone else to see the light ( i.e. Jerkins, the judge etc).
She made some very unwise decisions past and present that have played into the prince of this world (devil) hands, and now her child has been taken away. The issue of Isabella touching herself, being uncomfortable with bathing with Jerkins, the comb incident should have been raised immediately with the child's advocate or social worker. If it was of concern visitations would have been stopped immediately until the issues were investigated. But it appears the issues seem to have been bought up as ammunition to attack Jenkins rather then child protection issues.
Isabella upset at going to see Jerkins may also be attributed to things her mother has said; they maybe true (? I don’t know) but not appropriate things for a child to have to deal with
2. Bringing up someone’s sexual preference in a court of this world (To the spiritually inclined John 18:36) is not going to get you anywhere but a lost. This story is a running joke for the devil and his cohorts (not that Jerkin's is a cohort but is in the same place where Lisa Miler was 8 or so years ago).

3. I personally do not think that this is an issue of what is right for Isabella for Jerkins but more of what her own rights should be. Many Homosexual people deal with acceptance issues. To be rejected by someone you wanted/ did start a family with; And for that person to denounce the life you built with them labelling it as evil or wrong is gonna hit you bad; "So I will take the child we had together and show you, your church, everyone and the child I am right, and the life I live is right"...Winning this will be the biggest acceptance boast.

Lisa Miller made her bed.... God will give her the grace to lay in it as He did with King David ( bathsheba), Jacob ( Laban), Moses ( died before entering the promise land) and so on...The common factor with all of those stories is that each of them had " it's about me season" then the storm came and they remembered "without you (God) there is no me", and God graciously showed them mercy.... God knows all, and sees all, Jesus intercedes on our behalf...Lisa will be well advised to tread wisely from now on, and to seek God

Jim am I missing something here? Are you impying Jenkins and Miller were in a union as biblical and were functional parents to Isabel. Because everything I have seen in this case tells me tbe rdalationship was unbiblical. It was dysfuntional. And certainly not a healthy environment for Isabel to grow up in. So why is Lisa Miller being portrayed as the villain and Jenkins tbe grieving parent.

Despite tbe masterful claims of the LBGT to convince society tbe gay lifestyle is acceptable. God's word says otherwise. Anyone want to correct me on this. If so would you please do so from scripture and show me this sane sex union was recognized by God and these were valid parents to Isabel.

Bearmaster.

"Jim am I missing something here? Are you implying Jenkins and Miller were in a union as biblical and were functional parents to Isabel."

Of course not brother. I have not implied any such thing and obviously there is no such thing as homosexual marriage in Gods eyes. I have however stated that:

1) Lisa Miller willfully commited the sin of pursuing a marriage license with the state

2) Lisa Miller willfully chose to become pregnant by artificial means under the guise that her and jenkins would be the parents.

"It was dysfuntional. And certainly not a healthy environment for Isabel to grow up in. So why is Lisa Miller being portrayed as the villain and Jenkins tbe grieving parent."

The result of king Davids sin was unhealthy and dysfunctional yet as a man of God he humbled himself and accepted the consequences. As to how the media is portraying this I couldn't really care... just care about the truth in Christ of the matter and how it applies to the saints. So since you are asking me wild questions brother how about you help me kidnap my kids from their mother, I mentioned earlier that she is a sinner too (liar, greedy, blasphemer, different boyfriends in the house through the years, etc). You up for it brother - if you are looking for persecution boy will we get "persecuted" for that one.

I do want to say that I don't know all of the story and am only reacting to the supporters of Lisa Miller. I am just not convinced this was the right thing to do. I will change my original post from a statement to a question in light of that.

Think on these things brethren. Is this right?, is this something to rally behind. [EDIT 2013-01-26 from a statement to a question].

In Christ -Jim