So What Exactly is the Bible?

Bear, to answer your question, the issue that is confusing you is the Preterist view of prophecy. Their method of interpreting prophecy is applied to other scriptures, especially those that defy logic. Basically, what it comes down to is if it cannot be reasoned out by logic, it must be viewed at being symbolic. You end up with a method of interpretation that depends on a few for understanding the WORD. The bottom line is that you will need to have so-and-sos books to assist you in understanding the scriptures. Some would disagree with this evaluation but if you listen to them long enough you will find this philosophy creep in. I find them unreliable...

Does this mean that others will understand prophecy perfectly? No, because it is still unfolding, much like it was for the Jews when Jesus came. If you study the OT prophecy of Jesus' coming, life, mission, etc, note how it was written, and how it was fulfilled. This will give you a clue on how prophecy is to be understood.

The Bible is not a riddle book written to confuse man. It is God's love letter to his creation and is to be understood as such.

Hope this helps...

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Reveal from where?

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Revealed by the living Word through whom?

The Comforter from the Father prayed for by Jesus.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The Word in the believer is alive and full of revelation the World cannot conceive. We are the walking living Word of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Walk in the Spirit, live by the Spirit and the Truth and revelation of Jesus Christ will set us free and deliver us from all evil and pay the deposit on our Home in our Father's House Jesus is preparing for us, the son's of God.

In Christ; Phillip

The Bible is just a book to the world, but to those that are being saved it is the Living Word Himself bring forth His life and Word in each of those that God calls His offspring, the sons' of God, by the Holy Spirit, our Parakleet, in us forever.

hi, from gen,3:15 forward to the new testament it is the story of the seed line and satans efforts to thwart the promise made to eve by God. when the promised One came it is all about Jesus and why He was sent... the cross is the new covenant cut by Jesus for God and man in His body for the world to be saved.jimp

The BIble says what it is... Heb 4:12

Bear...you have an affinity for making extreme statements in order to get people's dander up.

Some Christians believe that some "last days" prophecies have a past fulfillment. This DOES NOT mean they reject Heb 4:12.

TMK,

To those who are ignorant of the Preterist view of prophecy, it can be very unnerving, unsettling. What I wrote is what I have read and observed in life. Let me share a bit more.

A group I know who holds to the Preterist view has taken it upon themselves to work to bring in the millennium. They do not believe in Biblical non-resistance but believe in pacifism. They will work to get the gov to operate according to pacifist philosophy. They will also have sit-ins, at nuclear weapons sites - work to disarm the USA...They are big on doing humanitarian works. Intellectualism is the guiding factor in how the Scriptures is to be understood. This group has apostatized terribly.

Another. One group does not believe Jesus was made of the seed of a woman but that God implanted a fertilized ovum into Mary's womb! You see, it just is not logical that the Holy Spirit would fertilize a female's ova. Now, if you pursue this philosophy you know where you will end up at. This group has a serious problem with legalism.

I do not know how many among these groups know the LORD. I know people in the second group is fairly ignorant. When I was a young woman I was told by one person in this group that I should not study the Bible so much because I would soon know more then the preachers! Made me mad - for a while - because competing with another on Bible knowledge was not even on my radar! I just loved the WORD and immersed myself in it. If this was a threat to some church leader, so be it. Anyhow, this is or was their mindset.

TMK, all I am saying is that I believe Bear does have a good reason to be concerned.

God bless.

Hi Ginnyrose-

There will always be loonies and extremists in any camp. I am sure that there are loony and extreme dispensationalists as well, like those evangelical groups spending millions and millions to make sure that a Jewish temple is rebuilt in Jerusalem(a system which was once and finally eradicated by the New Covenant) and also trying to breed a perfect red heifer for sacrifice in this re-built temple.

There is a range of preterism. Full preteriest believe that the 2nd coming of Christ occurred in the 1st century. I think this is outrageous. Then there are partial preterists who believe that a whole lot of prophecy has already been fulfilled but that Jesus is still coming back.

I guess I fall somewhat shy of partial preterism. This is because I do believe that Jesus was talking about 70 AD in the Olivet discourse, but I am not exactly sure what to do with Revelation. It is so vague and the language is so apocalyptic that I don't believe anybody really can. That is why I like the the first three chapters best, before all the crazy stuff starts happening.

What concerns me is the mindset that people who don't agree with our interpretation of things somehow don't respect the Bible, are less spiritual than we are, or at worst heretics. I know of partial preterists who are the best Christian people i know, in sll respects.

A few years back I would have thought that even the partial preterist view was whacked. Of course that is when i was a "left-behindist" because that is all I was ever taught about the "end times." It was not until I actually took the time for myself to study what the partial preterists say that I began to be swayed. Comparing scripture with scripture, the partial preterist view is pretty solid.

People don't want to accept this, but neither will they take the time to really look into it with an open mind. An open mind is key, because we all bring tons of baggage when we interpet scripture.

Hi TMK,

I agree with you that there are some loonie & extreeme views in all camps, including pre-millenial and dispensational views.

However, you said this about the book of Revelation "I am not exactly sure what to do with Revelation. It is so vague and the language is so apocalyptic that I don't believe anybody really can. That is why I like the the first three chapters best, before all the crazy stuff starts happening."

Can I gently and in respect suggest that maybe the reason that the book of Revelation seems hard to understand to you and that it has a lot of "crazy stuff" is because it does not fit into your partial preterist thinking.
What you refer as 'vague' and 'crazy' comprises of 19 chapters of information given directly to the Apostle John by Jesus in vision. I don't believe we can dismiss this important section of scripture as something we are not supposed to, or unable to understand.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants--things which must shortly take place." (Revelation 1:1)

When viewed as the revelation of Jesus Christ to show us what will take during 'The day of the LORD' (i.e that final day of God's wrath) it makes a lot of sense. Not that I claim to understand every detail, but the overall scene that is presented here is clearly seen as a progressive judgement that will take place on earth sometime future, because in no way has anything close to this happened yet.

Heydave wrote:

"because in no way has anything close to this happened yet."

Indeed not.

But neither has this happened to Edom:

"Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.
It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever."
Is 34:9:10.

Last time I checked smoke was not still ascending from Edom. But the inspired prophet says it **shall** ascend forever. Was Isaiah mistaken? Or simply using a certain type of literary device to convey God's judgment?

If you want I kind find a whole lot of other apocalyptic passages in the prophets that is clearly figurative.

If you try to read Revelation literally, I think it creates problems. I am not saying that Rev does not describe progressive judgment; the question is whether it is appropriate to take the language **itself** literally.

I think some people get nervous when I say that I don't take a lot of the language in Rev literally because they then conclude that I do not believe it is sacred scripture, or important, or that God can do stuff, etc. Revelation is apocalyptic literature, which, by definition, can't necessarily be taken literally.

Rev 1:1 which you quoted says things that must "shortly" come to pass. Are we to take that literally or not? If not, why should we take other parts literally?

Now, just because I am saying this about Rev and the apocalyptic language in the Prophets, it **does not** mean that I am always looking for "natural explanations" for supernatural events in the Bible.

I believe that Jesus worked real miracles; I believe that Jonah was really swallowed by a great fish; I believe that God did work great miracles in the Exodus. But those stories are written as historical events. They are not employing apocalyptic language. But Jesus did use apocalyptic language in the Olivet Discourse.

TMK,
I feel I should respond to your question about Isaiah 34.

Quote: "Last time I checked smoke was not still ascending from Edom. But the inspired prophet says it **shall** ascend forever. Was Isaiah mistaken? Or simply using a certain type of literary device to convey God's judgment?"

This passage in Isaiah is part of a prophecy regarding the final judgement that is also described in Revelation. For example verse 8, which you did not quote says "For it is the day of the LORD'S vengence, the year of recompense for the cause of Zion." Chapter 33 talks about the coming Messianic Kingdom and then in chapter 34 we read all about the judgment on the nations before this event.

The reason that you do not see smoke asending from Edom is that this is still future. Even though Edom as a name does not exist, the descendants and nations that come from Edom do. Edom are the the descendants of Essau.

Now if you don't believe there is still prophecy to be fullfilled in Isaiah, then you would have to conclude that this happen already and as there is no evidence of these events, then this must be figurative! I think that is a very slippery slope of interpreting according to a pre-determined view. Why decide it must have already taken place, when in the context of the whole chapter it is clearly part of the great judgment to come.

I do find it a bit odd that you take all the past accounts you mentioned as being literal, but the events that prophecy to the future you say are not to be taken literally. Even the historical events such as the crossing the red sea use apocalyptic language (Ex 18), but it happened.So just because there is use of the apocalyptic does not mean it will not happen.

Hi heydave--

Lets assume thst you are correct about the Is 34 judgment being future.

Will the smoke of its burning ascend forever and ever(and ever and ever)?

Quote: "Hi heydave--
Lets assume thst you are correct about the Is 34 judgment being future.
Will the smoke of its burning ascend forever and ever(and ever and ever)?"

Brother, the emphasis you have put is not in the text. It does not say 'forever and ever (and ever and ever).' If it did then we would have to consider that this emphasis must mean it will never stop burning, ever. However it just says "forever: from generation to generation". The word forever in the Hebrew (owlam) can mean 'eternity' or a 'long duration'. The context should tell us. Here the context is from generation to generation. So I would conclude that it means as long as there are a people on the earth. i.e before the new heavens and earth, so probaly the duration of the millenium.

An example of the use of the Hebrew word 'owlam' meaning 'a long time' is in Isaiah 42:14 where it says "I have held My peace 'a long time' (a long time = owlam), I have been still and restrained Myself. [Now] I will cry like a woman in labor, I will pant and gasp at once."
Here the translators have translated the word 'owlam' as 'a long time', because God is no longer going to hold his peace. he is about to act in judgment.

If you come to prophecy of scripture looking at them to be just exaggerated language and not to be taken as written, then you will have all sorts of problems. You then become the judge of God's word. However if you approach prophecy as being God's unchangable word, then when you see things like Isaiah 43:9 you will prayfully ask 'what is it really saying' and rightly understand and see things you did not at first see on a surface read.

This is a huge subject and I am sure I will not convince you to change your view of partial preterism (not that I am trying to). But please see that that maybe your way of approaching bible prophecy is not neccesarily correct.