question about healings

yesterday i flipped on the tv and there was the 700 club with pat robertson. they were doing a piece on some evangelist who recently passed away. when they cut back to pat robertson he said that this man was mightily used by god, and whenever he preached healings happened. then he named off a list of healings that happened whenever this man preached, some of them included: amputated limbs growing back, dead people rising back to life, etc

question: has any1 here ever witnessed amputated limbs growing back? or how about dead people rising to life?

wouldnt sumthing like that make the headlines if it could be proven? why have we not heard of these things if they are real?

A poster at another forum wrote the following about Chuck SMith (whe he knew personally). Chuck Smith is a respected Bible teacher and certainly not a flaming charismatic:

"The following two stories (as I recall them) come from Chuck Smith, pastor of Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, CA. If they had come from someone like Benny Hinn, I could easily discount them. However, Chuck does not claim to have a ministry in healing, and has even publicly expressed disappointment that God had told him that his prayers for such a ministry were not to be granted, but that Chuck was, rather, called to be a teacher. There is only Chuck's word for these two accounts, so that our friends who insist that miracles do not occur will not be impressed in the least with them. However, for those of us who have open minds, and weigh the credibility of witnesses, these stories seem germane to the matter raised in this thread:

1. In Chuck's early ministry, a distraught mother came to Chuck with her young son, who had just had his thumb (or perhaps it was a finger) cut off at the first knuckle in an accident. She begged Chuck to pray for his thumb to be healed. Chuck confesses that he had no faith for this miracle, but that he prayed for the boy and sent them home. I believe it was the next day that the woman excitedly returned with her son and showed Chuck that the finger had regenerated and was whole--with fingernail and all. She also had the severed finger in a jar that she showed him. It is not impossible that this could have been a hoax perpetrated against Chuck's gullibility (for example, if the second boy was an identical twin of the first boy), though I imagine that CHuck's own skepticism would have caused him to look into that before repeating the story. I am willing to accept the story at face value. It is not the kind of thing that will convince a determined skeptic, but for those of us who have no prejudices, it may be a piece of data indicating that regeneration is actually among the various kinds of miracles that God may sometimes perform.

2. I don't remember the details of this second story, except that a person lacking an eyeball, and wearing a glass eye presented himself (or herself) requesting prayer after a service when Chuck was ministering to those who came forward. This person wanted his eye restored. Again, Chuck had little faith that such a thing would occur, but prayed as asked. Soon afterward (the next day?) this same person returned and reported that a new eye had grown into the socket and had pushed out his glass eye. Chuck could see for himself that the person had a real eye in the socket, so he took it as a genuine miracle.

Chuck doesn't tell these stories very often--perhaps so as not to encourage too many people to expect such a rare miracle for themselves, or possibly because he is not 100% convinced that there was no hoax involved--I have never asked his reasons, since I don't know him well or have much access to him. I just remember him telling these stories once or twice at Calvary Chapel during the Jesus Movement."

There is a really God book about things that happened at Azusa street in the early 1900s called "They Told Me Their Stories" It recounts many such incidents. I recently had a friend with medically verified colon cancer and obvious symptoms of such who was healed instantly. He knew he had been healed and went to the doctor for verification. z The doctor was dumbfounded as he found absolutely no trace of cancer. I have never seen limbs grow back myself, but I have seen some amazing healings.

no1 wants 2 touch this topic when tough questions are asked. i thank both of u for posting. i know god can heal and do anything he chooses. i do believe he has healed people in this modern era. however i have 2 wonder about the grandiose healings claimed by many preachers and televanglists, especially since there have been no medical verifications of such healings. ever. the news shows have done pieces on benny hinn and others and they always refuse to produce any medical verification. i do not know about any1 else here, but if i prayed for sum1 and they were miraculously healed i would want 2 get all kinds of proof to show the world that god is god, not hide it like the famous preachers seem 2 want 2 do.

if god is healing people in such grandiose ways, and raising countless people from the dead why is no one taking it to the media? the media is about sensationalism and it would not ignore it.

thank u both 4 ur posts. i do not know ur friend who had colon cancer or the details and so i can not comment on that one way or the other. as 4 azusa street, there were a lot of unbiblical things that went on there, i am not sure i would trust the book unless it had medical verifiable evidence 2 the healings.

in regards 2 chuck smith, these are 2nd hand accounts of things that chuck smith has supposedly said, but never documented. this would not hold up in court therefore the argument that we should hold to what witnesses say would not be admissible in court, i am afraid.

where is the EVIDENCE? jesus healed people right out in front of everyone and everyone knew it was true. many times those being healed were examined by the rulers. jesus even commanded some he healed to present themselves to the rulers. if miracle healings are real 2day why do the healers not send the healed to the authorities? why is it always hidden away?

i just read the thread about carmen having cancer. so sad 2 hear. carmen has always preached a prosperity gospel and they luv him on trinity broadcasting.

reading the article about his cancer diagnosis it is interesting 2 note that he duznt talk about miraculous healings or seeking healing from god. its a different tune he is singing now that it is HIM with the bad diagnosis. its easy 2 claim all kinds of healings until you are the one with the diagnosis.

i'm not mocking him, i think its tragic 2 get a diagnosis like that. i recently watched a friend die from cancer. (recently as in monday morning) i just find it interesting that suddenly there is not much talk about miraculous healings from the carmen camp.

by SkepticGuy on 2013/2/20 0:25:36

i just read the thread about carmen having cancer. so sad 2 hear. carmen has always preached a prosperity gospel and they luv him on trinity broadcasting.

reading the article about his cancer diagnosis it is interesting 2 note that he duznt talk about miraculous healings or seeking healing from god. its a different tune he is singing now that it is HIM with the bad diagnosis. its easy 2 claim all kinds of healings until you are the one with the diagnosis.

i'm not mocking him, i think its tragic 2 get a diagnosis like that. i recently watched a friend die from cancer. (recently as in monday morning) i just find it interesting that suddenly there is not much talk about miraculous healings from the carmen camp

________________________

Greeting S.G.

I just wanted to take a moment and tell you I am sorry to hear of your loss. I will pray that the LORD bring comfort to you and to those who knew this friend of yours. I don't have any answers to share concerning the topic that I feel led to at this time but I did want you to know you are in my thoughts.

God bless
mj

Christian imposters speak of miracles they did which no one has ever seen, and then they ask for your money. In comparison, Jesus performed miracles openly and never asked for money. They use the Bible as their guide, yet they never tell you how to overcome sin. They refer often to the Old Testament to scare people into paying tithes to keep God from cursing their finances. They put man at the center of their message, with God on the peripheral, rallying believers to allow Him to break through with healing and money and power by sewing a "seed gift" into their own ministries. They teach that if you keep thinking and saying something enough times it will eventually materialize. It's all a deception. Beware of these liars and frauds, these who usurp the Holy Spirit with soul power, divine healing with psychosomatics, grace with law, heavenly wisdom with psychology.

Brother Paul

Skepticguy: I don't think you will find a whole lot of argument as to whether God does heal, or as to whether those healings are sometimes what we would view as amazing. (Actually, the common cold is just as incurable as a missing limb, it is just that the symptoms are more treatable, and so we somehow think the regrowth of a limb is "harder", and we don't have nearly so much faith for that.)

It is sad that some men have tried to manufacture false miracles for the exploitation of people. There are also men who are utterly sincere who have adopted, out of ignorance and lack of maturity, unBiblical methods. But there is a God who bore our sicknesses and carried our diseases. I don't think we can do a whole lot about the other men, but we can pursue God out of a pure heart ourselves and we can seek to have Him work through us to bless others and to meet their needs.

maryjane, thank u for ur kind words. i did not know this man long. i wish i had.

that was not why i asked the questions i have asked though. it just happened 2 coincide with it. what prompted my questions was pat robertson talking about this stuff as though its perfectly natural 2 see this happening all the time. i maintain that it isnt. god can certainly do it if he so chooses, but i believe that 4 whatever reason he chooses not to at this point in history.

amrKelly:

This difference is important. I am in the midst of a study of imagination, hope, and faith and the connection that these three have one to another. I have found that imagination, understanding, and the mind are, in many cases, all translations of the same Greek word. The evil are rebuked for their evil imaginations, we are commanded to love the Lord with all of our mind, and Paul prayed that the eyes of our understanding would be enlightened. What we think on, our imagination, is a key to the earnest expectation in our heart (our hope). Faith is the substance of our hope, it is the substantiation of what we are hoping for. So I find that what I allow myself to meditate on and imagine plays a key role in my ability to put faith in what God has already provided through His grace. There is a reason why we are to take every though captive in obedience to God. It has been a powerful study that God has used to do a transforming work in my life. I would encourage any believer to do a study of these three concepts in the New Testament and see how they are interconnected.

Skepticguy

Been reading some of your words during the past 2 days and you are reflecting words that span across society in regards to Christians. That is judgments being cast very quickly on issues as well as this healing deal and the contrast between Charismaniacs and those who are not.

I think alot in Christianity is smoke and mirrors and as a result we really don't know what is really true or not anymore. Someone can make something up and Praise God over and it they eventually get the AMEN choir to singing praises with them all the way it is false. Christians want to believe, so badly, sometimes.

On another forum I asked a poster why he seemed to hostile to Christianity. He responded by says he has yet to see any Christian be able to explain their faith in Jesus in a way that is genuine.

When it comes to healing, just like Carmen (A Charismatic) I had a friend who passed away in 2002 from cancer. She was word of faith to the max and was a Morris Cerullo disciple. We always went out round on the whole issue because to her negative talk invited satan in. Then she got cervical cancer but GOD was going to heal her. Refused the doctor and then 8 month later decided to see a doctor but it was too late. It spread to her lungs. I was informed of all of this just a few days before she passed by her husband. I saw her 24 hours before she passed. All I could to her in my heart was 'Was the word of faith message worth it?" Sounds cruel to say such a thing but I believe the Word of Faith message is cruel.

Paul. A man of your caliber should know that the kingdom of God is much greater than a handful of hirelings who have dis-honored the Lord's name. A little research will land you in the company of precious saints who see God move in this hour.

I would name a few but I treasure them to much to subject them to the unbelief and comments, by immature believers on this forum.

Russell

russell, if they would serve 2 show that god heals in these ways in this day then why hide their names? thats the whole problem. all these healings are supposedly happening in secret 2day, completely out of step w/ how god did it in scripture. i understand u not wanting to open them up to scorn, i dont mean to be callous about that. please understand my position though. people say 'yes! healings like this are common-place when god is present!', but when pressed 2 show it or prove it they back away and say 'oh, no we cant do that'.

or worse, they claim the person who wants to see the proof is lacking in faith or of the devil.

I understand the desire for divine healing - nobody likes to be terminally ill, or have limbs amputated either by accident of surgery or because of a birth defect.

There is another question I think that begs to be asked, confronted and answered: why do you insist on healings? Why will one expend thousands on dubious treatments when terminally ill?

Why?

Are people afraid to die?

Why?

Maybe this is the issue that should be addressed first.

this is a great question, ginnyrose. i had an atheist friend ask me once: if christians believe in heaven and that its a paradise beyond our imagination, why are they afraid 2 die and chase after that healing that will save their life and keep them bound to this life? interesting observation from an atheist.

I have personally witnessed an immediate regrowing of an arm part, the instantaneous healing of a girls left ear that was born deaf in it - she was 13 at the time of healing (I know the family and had known her since birth), the dissolving of a grapefruit sized cancer lump about 4 hours before the person was going under the knife to have it removed( this was my cousin), I also have witnessed several folks getting out of wheelchairs and walking again that had been paralyzed for decades. I have witnessed many, many more but in these specific cases I knew the person involved both before and after the miracle and can attest to its validity.

There have been many others but these were the ones that immediately came to mind.

In answer to your question

wouldnt sumthing like that make the headlines if it could be proven? why have we not heard of these things if they are real?

That has not been my experience. It made some waves locally and amongst those who knew them or were there when it happened. However, once it left that small circle of people it pretty much dried up. It seems people are very slow to believe God actually performs what He promises in His Word even when it is verified. In fact many on this forum reading what I wrote above do not believe it and are formulating arguments in their minds as to why it does not happen today.... never mind that I, and others, have actually seen God perform the miraculous right in front of our eyes. The regrowing of the arm happened not 18 inches away from my eyes as I watched it happen.

The real key is this... reread the book of Acts and see WHY God performed the miraculous and supernatural. Interesting study. Note every time a legitimate miracle happened and what was then done. You will find that when legit miracles happened the believers were quick to make the point that it was Jesus Christ and faith in His name that produced the supernatural. That same Jesus who died on a cross, spilling His blood for their sins, now offers eternal life to all who will repent and believe the Gospel. Signs, wonders, and miracles are PRIMARILY given to verify the Gospel message. Read Mark 16 again looking for that perspective.

As another modern day example that happened to me here in the USA-

Several friends and I were basically just doing "street witnessing" at a government housing project outside of Tulsa, Oklahoma on a Friday night. There were about a dozen of us split into 6 groups of 2. Two of my friends were speaking with a group of about 15 folks in their teens and twenties. At some point one of the younger ones of about age 12-13 asked if Jesus was really all powerful and could really conquer sin, death, and the grave in the end. We affirmed that he certainly could. This excited the youngster and he asked if Jesus could do that NOW..did Jesus really have power over death even now? We affirmed that He did. He said that his pet bird had died about a week before and wanted us to ask Jesus to raise his bird from the dead as it was a pet that he had loved. We asked where the bird was. He ran back to his apartment and produced a bird cage with a bird in it that had sure enough been dead for a week. It was decomposing, covered in bugs, and stiff as a concrete block. One of my friends placed the bird in his hand and led a prayer in front of the 15 or so folks. He shared that that not even a sparrow fell to the ground without it being in God's knowledge and thoughts. He said that this bird was very dear to this young man and asked God to verify the Gospel message of Christ's life, death, burial, and resurrection from the dead that we had shared with them. I kid you not... when he said, "amen" that bird jerked, flipped over, and my friend caught the bird by its feet as it tried to fly away!

Everyone there knew that bird had been dead for a week and had immediately been raised from the dead in response to God answering that prayer! I can assure you that we now had the attention of everyone within eyesight. They wanted to follow Jesus. We prayed with everyone in that group and saw repentance from sin, confession, and belief in the Gospel for salvation. At just about that time a dance was ending that had been happening in the building on the commons area of the property. There were about 50 other teens and twenties that came out of the dance at that time. The guys who saw the bird raised from the dead ran over and stopped all of their friends exiting the dance and told them what they had seen and that they must listen to us. In the course of the evening we prayed with probably another 50-60 people to become followers of Christ. This door opened because of the resurrection of the dead bird. God had confirmed His Word of the Gospel message with signs following. We connected them with a good local church in that part of town and they were doing well spiritually as of my last knowledge.

God PRIMARILY sends the supernatural to verify the Gospel and draw people to Himself. Again, I would encourage you to reread the book of Acts and Mark 16 with that in mind. It will change how you view praying for signs, wonders, miracles, physical healings, the supernatural, and the suspension of natural law. You will begin to pray for it so that the unsaved will come to Christ.

God answers the believing prayers of His people because He loves us and desires to bless us as we do our children. He may well send miraculous answers in those cases. However, His PRIMARY motive is the salvation of the unsaved and He will confirm His Gospel message with signs following for those who will allow Him to do it in their lives.

I have not had God perform a resurrection from the dead through me nor have I seen one first hand. However, I am praying and believing that it is going to happen. However, when it does I want to be speaking at the funeral of the deceased. I hope he has been dead for 3-4 days and is totally embalmed with no internal organs, etc. at all. Let there be no chance anyone tries to say it was not real! I pray the place is filled to capacity with unbelievers that have dismissed the Gospel. I then want to see God raise the guy from the casket...and then let him tell what it was like to be in hell on the other side of death. TALK ABOUT FOLKS LISTENING TO THE GOSPEL AT THAT POINT! Again, that's why signs, wonders, and miracles are primarily given..to confirm the message of Christ's birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection from the dead offering eternal life to those who will repent and believe the Gospel.

Blessings!

thank u for sharing all of that solomon. naturally, and as u expected, i am skeptical. :-) i have no choice but to accept ur word, for i would hope against hope that u would not make this up.

let me ask this, if god heals in such a manner, and he is the same yesterday and today, then why dont people go to the childrens ward at the hospital and just walk through and heal all those children suffering with cancer, or other diseases? this would not be unlike what jesus did. the bible says that if they recorded everything that jesus did the world would not be big enough to contain it, so obviously we only have a small sample of the miracles done by jesus.

i challenge anyone reading this to go to the childrens ward and pray and seek god perform a miracle and heal those children. any1 want 2 take me up on this?

by SkepticGuy on 2013/2/20 5:09:07

thank u for sharing all of that solomon. naturally, and as u expected, i am skeptical. :-) i have no choice but to accept ur word, for i would hope against hope that u would not make this up.

let me ask this, if god heals in such a manner, and he is the same yesterday and today, then why dont people go to the childrens ward at the hospital and just walk through and heal all those children suffering with cancer, or other diseases? this would not be unlike what jesus did. the bible says that if they recorded everything that jesus did the world would not be big enough to contain it, so obviously we only have a small sample of the miracles done by jesus.

i challenge anyone reading this to go to the childrens ward and pray and seek god perform a miracle and heal those children. any1 want 2 take me up on this?

_________________

Greetings S.G.

We also know from the BIBLE that JESUS did not heal everyone he came in contact with who needed physical healing. HE said over and over again that HE only did what the FATHER told HIM to do. It would be sin on my part to take up your challenge with no direct leading from the LORD to do so. In all things we must pray first and seek HIM. I do believe GOD wants the very best for us but sometimes the very best is not always what we believe is the very best. Did HE not say to Paul my grace is sufficient for you...I also think what Ginnyrose posted had merit as well.Perhaps another topic for another thread... What are we afraid of when it comes to dying? It is something I ask and consider myself. In some things I have received miraculous healing and some I have learned that HIS grace is sufficient for me.

God bless you and I pray you find the answers your looking for.

mj