IMPORTANT: Interview: 'God's Smuggler' Brother Andrew on Megachurches, and Persecuted Christians

CP: How do you personally pray for the persecuted Church?
Brother Andrew: Let me first tell you what I don't pray. I don't pray that God will lift the persecution because if there is persecution there is a plan that God has, otherwise God wouldn't allow it. So do we understand why this persecution? When we read the Bible, all the Bible's characters met with at least opposition. Our problem is that if we have a little opposition we call it persecution. That is ridiculous. Every Christian is tested; every Christian has and has to have opposition.
How do we pray? Not for God to remove persecution, but use that to purify the Church. And it is my strong belief that the countries where there is persecution are stronger in faith than churches in countries where there is no persecution – whether it is your country or my country (Netherlands). And there will come a time, maybe it has come already, where we will depend on our survival on the faith and input of the church that is now persecuted. They are standing strongly in the storm; we write and speak about them because we admire them. They have qualities that I wish we had: the perseverance of faith. They don't have Bibles often and they don't have liberty. But do we need all this liberty that we take for granted in order to function as the Church? And of course the answer is no.
The Church thrives under pressure, that was the very birth of the Church. They were persecuted in Jerusalem and all over. Look at it a different way, what does the Bible say, how do I pray? That whatever happens in the world, the Church will be revived in our countries and be spared from apostasy and unbelief, but God's way may well be a good dose of persecution because that is good medicine for the soul. At the same time having said that, there can be so much persecution that the Church ceases to exist, like that happened in North Africa and in other places, but these are exceptions. The church in China is of course a glorious example of the biggest, fastest growing church in the world, but we don't know nearly as much about the church in China as we do about the church in America.

CP: I want to get your assessment on how the American megachurches are doing in terms of supporting the persecuted Church. In 2009, Rick Warren held a forum on the persecuted church, and Dr. Carl Moeller, former Open Doors USA president, he was part of that. And in 2011, John Piper, Matt Chandler, David Platt, Rick Warren, and other megachurch pastors were part of a Twitter campaign to help imprisoned Afghan Christian Said Musa. So what is your assessment of how megachurches in America and their influential pastors are doing in terms of advocating and supporting the persecuted church?
Brother Anderew: Let me first say, I refuse to be negative. Whatever they see as their calling, they have to pursue with all their power. It does not make me envious to see a megachurch because I don't see that in the Scripture. The church was always low-keyed, there were places where there were tens of thousands of believers, like Ephesus, and they had no building at all. And nowadays any place in your country, if there are ten or 20, or 100 members – you have to have a church – bigger, bigger, bigger. I don't see it in the Scripture. It's clearly not my calling, that is again not meant as criticism. God can use the church for bigger influence, provided that bigger church means more power with God, more anointing from the Holy Spirit, passion for the lost people, and not people who are in charge who are on an ego trip and just make their own name big, writes lots of books, and television and all that. All that often ends in total disaster and the church that is growing in comparison, you might say some house churches or underground churches in China are megachurches when you think of the number of members, but they have no mega building, they certainly don't have no mega salary, no mega fame, and no mega books, and all that.
I think God has a different set of values and we should do well to look into that from Scripture and be humble. If people are being used by the Lord, praise God for that, and I am not envious and I wish them success. And I have been at Rick Warren's church. They gave me a special award for being old and still following Jesus. Can you think of that? So I got up for the big thank you, and I said something like you Americans are crazy, how can you reward an old man for still following Jesus? All he wants to do is go to heaven and make it. You don't have to reward him in the world. Instead of rewarding an old man who still follows Christ, you should punish all the rich people in your church who spend all their money on the bigger boat, and bigger this, that and the other. That should be the system, but don't reward an man who is near eternity because he still follows Jesus, it is the calling of all of us. What's your problem? Well, frankly, they've never invited me back.
CP: Would you like to see very influential American pastors do more, speak more about the persecuted Church?
Brother Andrew: Absolutely, they should exert their influences that they have with the people, with the government, with their own congregation for the good of those who have no spokesperson. And I always like to say Open Doors we speak for those who cannot speak. We have to be bold in our statement without offending the government, because our role as dedicated followers of Jesus is not political. I want to emphasize that strongly, it must be spiritual and the moment we go off the track we are wrong. It must be a spiritual ministry that we will never be ashamed of, not now before people and not in eternity before the throne of God on Judgment Day. This is what we have done for the suffering church and I believe that the measure in which the free Church, in your country, my country, will stand in the gap on behalf of the suffering Church, in that measure God will protect us.

read more: http://www.christianpost.com/news/interview-gods-smuggler-on-megachurches-persecuted-christians-and-friendship-with-taliban-and-hamas-leaders-90345/

As I mentioned in the other thread, I felt the Lord whispering into my heart a while ago, "Think small." I believe what God has His heart on is small groups gathering under the lordship of the Spirit. And when they grow too large to be accommodated in a home the answer is not to go out and get a larger building, but rather to divide. Divide... and multiply.

Amen brother. This our burden behind Gospel Fellowships to encourage saints to gather in such small groups under the headship of Jesus Christ: http://gospelfellowships.net I believe the Holy Spirit is beginning to encourage many saints to meet in this way.

A church cannot be judged by its size, but by the heart of its members and their impact on the world. If a person wants to gather in a closet with two more people, and are being Blessed by the gospel, I say wonderful. If a person wants to gather in building that holds 200,000 and are being Blessed by the Gospel, wonderful.

Brother, It seems to me that it would be rare if the true Gospel would be preached to such a large crowd in America. Clearly most mega-churches are more focused on "money" then the "marriage" supper of the Lamb.

The Church is never to seek to be popular. And will always in the end be hatred by the spirit of the world. Unless the church has compromised with the world and its lusts and desires to grow a large church.

I believe Jesus was speaking a prophetic model when he said where two or three come together in his name, be would be present. David Platt has rightly observed that Jesus was a mini church leader. I also believe Alan is own target when he shares " think small".

There is an excellent example in Beijing China of what happens when a western style mega church gets into conflict with governmental authority. The Shuwang church built upon the western model of bigger is better has been in conflict with the Chinerse government for the last two years. Because this church numbers in the thousands the Chinese government have percieved them as a threat. The church has been kicked out of several places. Yet the pastor refuses to break his church down into smaller cell groups. The church being bigger and visible makes it easy for the government to control.

It is harder for the Chinese government to track the rural house churches because of their small size. These smaller groups listen to the Holy Spirit and get warning of governmental raids and shut downs. Often when the government will shut down a house church. Three or more smaller ones will spring up in new venues.

So I deed we should "think small".

My thoughts.

Bearmaster.

Bill your own words "well so far anyway". How much longer do you think we will have that freedom?

Bear.

Brother Greg, I know were your coming from, but how can we set in judgement of what fills any mans spiritual needs? I have sat in mega churches, and in 50 people congregation churches, and have been Blessed by both. A lot of times I was Blessed by something that was said to me by one of the members, and not by the shepherd at all. We have got to stop thinking that our Blessings or our spiritual needs only comes from the size of the congregation. Just go to the Church that "you" feel is feeding you the best, and let God deal with the ministry, not man. Greg, can we both agree that we both want to see folks come to Christ? I Pray we can, so why would either of us want to promote on a world wide place like SI that size matters? The most important thing is to get them saved, and after that they may decide to move on to a larger or smaller church. Lets not make any lost soul, feel under any condemnation on choosing a place to worship.

Yes american christianity now is an rotting apple and the church is turning to worldliness and apostasy. The chinese church is more of a pristine orange that is full of the life of Christ and obedience and purity.

It is not an argument only after size, it is quality. Jesus Christ did not tell us to make converts but disciples.

If a church is not encouraging saints to walk as Christ walked and look to Him in all things then we have to really question whether that large assembly is of the Lord. (1 John 2:6).

Also the Scriptures clearly teach against loving money, seeking after money and building large homes as examples to the flocks but most of the mega-church pastors live large, and build larger and larger buildings.

But they forgot the people are the Church. If we cannot see the grievous error and departing from what is apostolic and genuine perhaps our hearts are leavened by the spirit of the age also.

Joel Osteen might be a believer in Jesus Christ but he is not a biblical elder of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, he shares with the false prophet spirit of the age that preaches God's love for all and happiness for all as we live as the world does and seek the same things.

I am not judging brother but sadly stating the obvious, I am not one to name-call or to preach against things but something in my heart is revolting against the whole thing. God surely is calling His called ones out of such compromising places.

This is not a judgement to you personally brother but I am speaking of this in the larger sense and my heart reaction personally now to these things.

It stands to simple reason alone that the size of a congregation cannot of itself be a matter of denying the validity of Christ Himself. If this is what is being understood from those who have shared about the implications of mega churches then it must either be a wilful misunderstanding or else those of us who agree that small is biblical and large is not are extremely poor communicators. Although it may seem unlovely I have no doubt that the former and not the latter is the real issue.

Similarly we may have all sorts of reasons why as individuals we take one view or another view. If our own personal view is the basis for what we believe because our experience tells us something different than another has experienced, both views are no less equal. The end is to agree to disagree, which is of course plain nonsense. Greg has shared why he is promoting a particular model of local church life in terms of what he believes is "coming persecution of the church" in the USA and Canada and has several times made reference to the North Korean Church being led of the Holy Spirit through a man to make preparation for what came upon North Korea thereafter. Something of that order can never be a matter of opinion. It is either foolishness or else it is God' wisdom and mercy for this day.

Does anybody have any doubts about just how blasphemous large parts of the church in the USA are? Really, does anyone have any doubt about it. And what of the other great arm of believers who whilst they do not blaspheme by behaving like god's themselves live so as to deny His sovereignty in their lives! What would God' remedy be to such a condition as this? If anyone here had a son or a daughter laid low, drunk with wine, filthy with the filth of the street and headed into certain destruction would not in the end take a rod and lay waste to their bodies with tears so as to drive them home and to obedience? Always knowing that the love which you had bestowed upon them in their innocence would serve to remind them that even now you love them and care deeply for them!

If you cannot answer that in the affirmative then brethren I tell you in plain English you do not yet love your son of your daughter.

When the fierce anger of God is revealed it will be to perfection of those who are His children and to the condemnation of those who will not turn because they will not believe, will not repent and do not love God at all.

The business of GospelFellowships is simply a move of God in the hearts of a few men and women to show mercy. It is a coming to the gutter and asking the sons and the daughters to come aside and be clean. When the compulsion comes in the end it will be by the hand of God Himself and not by flesh and blood.

We have been taught that Rome is the sum of the harlot and the cry "come out of her my people" is the sum of those who are in Rome. Beloved, Rome is just a mother and many are her children. We condemn that which comes easily to us because in our inner parts we secretly comprehend that we are not pleasing God. So we cry out to our former mother and say "harlot". Hypocrisy Cry Hypocrisy! Her sins are our sins. The love of money, fornication...making idols of dead things....deception.....drunk with power.....haters of truth.......boasters........revilers of righteousness.......despisers of loveliness......and many such things which is the portion of all those who knew God in their youth yet turn from simplicity in their years of growing up. It has always been this way and the only evidence we have to the contrary is the scriptures and the apostolic church of those whom Christ chose for that very purpose....that we might have a record in our day to follow their example. May the Lord have mercy on us and cause us to both comprehend the time in which we live, a day of visitation, that we might be dressed in readiness and rise quickly when the Master comes knocking at the door of His Church.

My beloved brethren, pls let's be careful not to hinder the work of God. There is a purpose for the mega-churches, and there is a purpose for the house churches. Who will gain say the fact that God was not behind such great movement like the methodist, or the salvation army. And who will look down on the works of men like watchman nee. I think we should focus on revival, and not on style of church. Like brother Andrew said, let the megachurches exert their inflence on the government and the people, if God has given us peace, and influence let's not throw it away, like paul will say: i wish u are kings indeed that we may be kings with u. If for example the episcopal church of england has not use the advantage of size and their authority, the church in england (as at then) would have been on the mercy of roman catholicism like the one in france. The main burden in our heart at all time should be the need for revival. LET US BE CAREFUL.