The "apple of his eye"

The "apple of his eye" was mentioned on another site to mean 'the church' now in the mind of someone that is either not familiar with the foundation of the scriptures or the prophets therein, and what it means for us today. This kind of teaching is not only unscriptural, it has consequences of unexpected magnitude.

Zechariah 2:7  Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon. For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you:

for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

9  For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me. 10  Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD. 11  And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. 12  And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again. 13  Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.

So even if one reads the OT only once, it's obvious that here it's spoken about Zion, Judah as a coming portion in the holy land inherited by Jesus, and Jerusalem that will be chosen again. That is the scriptural foundation of the expression the "apple of his eye". Even if Charismatics and others that believe the OT is finished or God is finished with the old covenant try to spritualize the scriptures, it's still means just that vebatim. To acknowledge that helps a great deal to not fall into the trap of this emerging group of "all people" that get themselves cut to pieces by their own ignorance:

Zechariah 12:3  And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Henry Gruver came to mind, that has a ministry in Japan the last few years, and was consulted by Japanese parliament members AFTER the devastating tsunami of 2011. After which they changed their demand outlined below and also their vote from "yes" to a "abstain" the following UN vote on the Palestinian state issue. Its a mostly totally unknown example what it really means to touch the apple of his eye.

The One True God identified Himself to the people of planet Earth, as the God of Israel, the I AM, the Lord Jesus Christ. The media never told us what happened within 48 hours of when Japan gave the DEMAND to Israel that day of the 9.1 earthquake and tsunami.

taken from the Henry Gruver newsletter:
http://joyfulsoundministries.com/Newsletter/newsletter3.html

"Where did it all Begin? Japan sent their ambassador to Geneve, Switzerland to deliver the official stand of Japan concerning the
Israel-Palestinian situation. Quote "Cease Jerusalem over to the Palestinians for the capitol of the nation of Palestine. Give back all territory taken in the 1967 war back to Syria, and other nations." That was delivered March 9th 2011. 48 hours later on March 11, 2011 the record breaking earthquake hit Sendai, Japan with a Tsunami that also broke all records destroying thousands of lives, homes, businesses, schools, temples, shrines and farms in its 250 mile path. As this happened my heart broke for the people and all those beautiful children who perished in all of this."

Unconfirmed rumours has it that the US administration has a similar demand drawn out regarding Jerusalem and the mountains of Israel, specified with an exact time table to follow. It would make sense according to the prophets i mention here in this post, but haven't heard anything yet regarding if or when this will be delivered to them.

In the meantime it's good to mention that the next 1000 years will be physically lived on this earth, so no need to ignore plain scripture regarding exactly that in exchange for a 'form of spirituality' that has no direct relationship with the written word.

The more you read the prophets, the more you can cross reference and pinpoint almost the exact time when the once rejected yet still reserved chosen people appointed for salvation will suddenly receive the grace to accept Jesus Christ as their God and King. And this time is coming very close now. However a time of great war, because of the controversy of Zion. Many want to own it, some want to destroy it. When Jerusalem becomes a stumbling block for the majority, including the so-called church that does not understand things happening outside their own belly button view you know its getting close.

Zechariah 13:8  And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Our reverence as the church of Christ is to our soon brethren to be, THAT remnant that shall say: The LORD is my God. Not the state or land as such, however God sees THEM - that future remnant as the rightful heirs of the promise he made to their fathers so adresses them synonymously by names that indicate location. To not see this reality is almost like a reverse blindness on side of the church. I hope that veil can be taken away by His grace before it gets to a critical state where the church sides with the rest of the world and gets cut to pieces together.

"Daughter of Zion" and "daughter of Babylon" have a VERY close relationship, prophetically, in their last instances reaching into our time. There is a parallel in the material world we can observe, one side will go through the refining fire, and suffer great loss, the other will be totally destroyed, this alone - knowing that all prophecies apply again and again, since there is nothing new under heaven, should already give it away:

Zechariah 2:7  Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon. 10  Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

Psalms 137:8  O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.

Isaiah 47:1  Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.

Jeremiah 50:42  They shall hold the bow and the lance: they are cruel, and will not shew mercy: their voice shall roar like the sea, and they shall ride upon horses, every one put in array, like a man to the battle, against thee, O daughter of Babylon.

Jeremiah 51:33  For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; The daughter of Babylon is like a threshingfloor, it is time to thresh her: yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come.

Just want to add for now 'daughter of Babylon' is only part of Mystery Babylon of the endtimes, it's a nation by definition that has a few characteristics that distinguish her strongly from others:

She has another nation as a mother that is still around to see her daughter fall:
Jeremiah 50:12  Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.

She is the executioner or 'dominant military force' among the nations:
Jeremiah 50:23  How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!

She has a mingled people from many nations living in her that are asked to come out and leave at time of her attack. As well as saints that are asked to leave as well and let Jerusalem come to their mind as a destination.

She is the dominant merchant nation of the world, influencing all the world
Revelation 18:23  And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

She is directly responsible for the war that comes to Israel, and all the world.
Jeremiah 51:49  As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth.

Ephesians 2:11-22 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This leaves the old testament Israel still depending on the earthly promises of God for those that are not "One new man", which is both Jew and Gentile one in Christ, one body, one Spirit by the birthing in both, "the incorruptible Seed", of the Father, which is the living Word of God Himself, being "Christ in you the hope of Glory". John 1: 1-4.

1 Peter 1:22-25 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

This, "one new man", is both Jew and Gentile, "born again" making both one new man in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior, Brother and God Himself in the one new man, which is now the Temple of God, holding the Incorruptible Seed of the Father, in both, and making them one new man, both son's of God, by the Son Himself making us fellow heirs with Christ to the New Body of Christ, His Church, leaving the old testament separated Jews, to the promises still left to come to all Israel, not the Body of Christ, which is the New Covenant Body of Christ, His Church, called Christians first in Antioch.

"Of two, one new man", "In Christ by the Christ in you".
No favoritism, just the old and the new, which are still working to accomplish God's perfect Plan for all the ages, which helps understand Revelations much better and how to separate God's perfect plan for all the ages to come.

In Christ: Phillip

Yes, and i would like to continue to show the time of 'heritage Israel' coming around to find His grace, I found the exact moment "from that day and forward" in time.

Jeremiah 51:25  Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Revelation 8:8  And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Babylon is taken, 'mountain in olde english also refers to 'continent' - then what happens...

Jeremiah 50:4  In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.

5  They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.

Jeremiah 50:20  In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

parallel:

Ezekiel 39:22  So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

parallel:

Joel 3:1  For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Current Christianity seems to go into 'ignorance mode' when we hear expressions like "my land" in Joel 3:1 - what has no place in the 'spiritual outlook' where really there are no more physical objects at all. Everything is purely spiritual now. Or maybe gnostic?

Now our tradition of 2000 years church history is the standard, and everything has to be placed around that center. Or so we think, yet the fact of the matter is Jesus will return to Jerusalem in person, when suddenly the "my land" expression comes to life all the way from the Old Testament to actual reality in our very end of times:

Zechariah 14:4  And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Our problem is the thought that because political Zionism exists - that God himself is not a Zionist. That is a serious misunderstanding in the positive identification of His intention.

How about to try the case for a negative identification, that goes along the lines of "whatever God's enemy tries to achieve gives us a hint of what really matters to him when opposing God - because it matters to God". This piece was printed here before maybe a year ago, it's by one of the main master thinkers of the masons Albert Pike:

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

I wasn't taking this as being definitive until the so called "Arab Spring" where moderate dictators got replaced with radical extremists in several North African and Middle East countries. By the very same people that previously tried to convince us that they had to be considered "the bad guys". Now they get money, tanks and airplanes from Washington. It doesn't make any sense - until you read Pike. He 'received' the actual plan to establish the anti-christ by creating and building up two opposing fronts that kill each other. And he is unfortunately regarded as one of the 'architects of the NWO' by people in power. The resulting blood bath will be so extreme that even main Christianity mostly will have no way to explain it to themselves - and many will loose faith and all hope. It will look like the end of the end has come already, that's the illusion which will help to make the antichrist that will emerge out of the ashes more look like the real Christ.

So from Satan's side the state of Israel was established to have the Jews all in one place to easier fight and destroy them. God's plan is a radical different one, as we know, which we can understand much better when we start paying attention to his prophets.

I know it's a hard truth to accept what's behind political relations with the state of Israel, and the actual strategies in the Middle East behind that facade that are followed seemingly without logic. Things are very different than they appear to be. And Syria and Iran have been part of the plan
many years ago already. The prophets hint at Iran will be the tipping point, that will break America as a nation, even when Israel will be blamed for the Iran attack, and God's attention and focus shifts then to Israel as his 'center of the world' for the next 1000 years. The times of the gentiles is slowly coming to an end, so is the western prosperty and false grace gospel that will have no answer for all of this.

Romans 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Zechariah 12:10  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

If you read carefully I haven't touched yet on the future of the gentile church at all, just on the 'ignored branch' of the natural branches. Since this is something not ususally discussed at all by a church that has this idea of a 'gentile christ that will come back to earth in Kansas'. We all will see that idea die a sudden death and the proud will be humbled like nobody has been humbled before.

Revelation 3:12  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

down out of heaven - where to? - earth

"Those Old Testament land promises were declared null and void by the work if Christ on the cross and the bringing in of the New Covenant."

No, you're inventing things here. The reality will look like this:

Zechariah 14:16  And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Revelation 19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:

Where is the church in all of this?

Revelation 2:26  And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

We will be with Him wherever He will be

1 John 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Let's have a look at the expression "my land" below - it means God owns it. And he is jealous about it, what was already my point in the first post here giving the example of Japan that also was of the conviction that this would not be the case, at least at first, before they heard Henry Gruver preaching about it.

The whole reason the antichrist wants to get worshiped there is that he knows that Jesus chooses to place His name in Jerusalem, so his stategy is to come first and deceive. A side point is that he actually knows where Jesus will come back to earth, so why does he have a so much better understanding of the things of God than some saints?

Ezekiel 36:5  Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

Ezekiel 38:16  And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

This is also the reason why the stumbling block and its controversy exists: "that the heathen may know me". And some others I suppose that need to see it to believe it.

Ezekiel 38:18  And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

Ezekiel 43:7  And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

---- land promises and the duration of it:

Ezekiel 37:21  And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Ezekiel 37:25  And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

26  Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

timing is yet future: "And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore." At the moment the heathen suspect the exact opposite to be the case, so it isn't fullfilled yet.

----

I think i understand what it is, that creates envy or jealousy about the "late comers" that will have their time of salvation + sanctification cut into the last hour:

Matthew 20:9  And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10  But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11  And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12  Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13  But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14  Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15  Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16  So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

.... this is the whole point: "Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own?"

To come back to my opening point: To say 2000 years of church history make us the apple of his eye, when God says the eleventh hour ones are - is to express a mind of works righteousness of more work = better pay. Not understanding that the goodman of the house has every right to even go as far as calling the last being first.

a-servant--

Is there a point you are trying to make with all these posts?

If there is, for the love of mike please state it plainly.

When someone asks me on the street "why are you jealous for something God is jealous for?"

I cannot directly explain it, as it's not regarding personal preferences at all, nor do I have any benefit from it.

Have to conclude it's a family affair and just runs among like minded and like hearted.

The best logical reason I would come up with is, that I'm really looking forward to meet them when they come into the fold. And also I'm tired of some "existing family members" that do not have the mind or spirit of our Father in heaven. They read Gods words, ignore them and then talk about their own theology, what they are doing is a "Jeremiah 51:18" - and there is really no more time for that.

Jeremiah 51:19  The portion of Jacob is not like them; for he is the former of all things: and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: the LORD of hosts is his name.

a-servant wrote:

"When someone asks me on the street "why are you jealous for something God is jealous for?"

That is a very strange question for someone on the street to be asking you.

And I still wish you would elucidate on what your point is in all of this. What are you trying to tell us?

It's complicated. I think this replacement theology is part of the great endtimes delusion. After reading a few other people what they have to say about it, it seems that the reason and origin of that confusion in the western church is the prevailing Antinomianism among evangelicals. And that is part of a popular but false gospel, especially in America that also got infected with Dispensationalism and Charismaticism. After studying it for a longer while, it all makes perfect sense because these lines of teachings support each other. And show the same symptoms.

David Servant said:

"Legalism and antinomianism—two words that describe equally fatal theologies. Which of these two words have you heard more often spoken from the lips of professing Christians? How many of them have never even heard of antinomianism? Although the New Testament warns against antinomianism many more times than it does against legalism, antinomianism remains the prevailing theology in many modern Protestant circles."

That's a hard thing to say: "antinomianism remains the prevailing theology in many modern Protestant circles". Where does it come from? It's taken over from dispensationalism even by those that renounced it as error.

"Plainly put, unless you dispense with dispensationalism, you can not understand the prophets in the Holy Bible."

Source: The Abomination of Dispensationalism
http://www.moresureword.com/Dispensa.htm

"The Church has received and preaches Another Gospel and therefore can NOT recognize the difference between the Holy Spirit of Truth and counterfeit spirits."

Source: Is the Best Selling Gospel Biblical? - Have We Received Another Gospel?
http://www.moresureword.com/bsgospel.htm

"unable to discern what is true and what is a lie, unable to distinguish evil and good."

Source: Charismaticism - Spiritual Barbarianism
http://www.christiandoctrine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=541:charismaticism-spiritual-barbarianism&catid=183:heresy-and-error&Itemid=559

"The answer is very simple: to ‘come out’ of the new 'harlot' of charismaticism and to start again, learning anew what God ‘really’ says!"

A-servant, Christinyou and Bearmaster have set forth some clear new-covenant teaching on this matter. I suggest you read their posts again and do some checking to see if what they are saying lines up with the teachings of the apostles of the new covenant. Do some digging and see how they interpreted old-testament scripture.

I'll just add this. You were talking earlier about "the land," the heritage of Israel. What about this new-testament passage:

"But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly, wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He hath prepared for them a city" (Heb. 11:16).

"They," says the writer of Hebrews, are no longer looking for an earthly land or inheritance, but are "now" setting their affection on a heavenly land and inheritance.

Who is the writer of Hebrews speaking of when he says, "they"?

Allan

Hebrews 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

They have been looking for it, but they are dead currently. The dead will not be part of this in any fleshly form:

Revelation 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

However there will be new children born during the millennium, we have to understand that life as is will continue on earth, we will not all together walk in a heavenly form at the same time.

However the dead that will come back to life will. And we that are still alive at his return also will be transformed. Yet it's still happening all on this earth. No scripture makes another scripture not true, they all are true, however in more than one dimension.

All this debate over natural Israel and the Church seems to miss the point. The point is that "he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye" (Zech. 2:8)! God is jealous over something, very jealous! To have the Lord on your side, to know that God is jealous over that to which you are committed, and fiercely jealous over it, that the Lord is not going to let it be set aside or overlooked. What matters is that we are in that something for which God is jealous. Oh, to have the jealousy of God on our side in the work to which we are committed!

In Christ,

Ron

Paul said said "some" were broken off and we are "grafted in among them" ~ Rom 11:17 (I use the NASB)

Just a thought on grafting.

You can purchase trees that have more than one fruit grafted on the same tree. Perhaps there are apple and cherry or pear or several varities of apple.

When that tree fruits the apple branches produce apples and the cherry branches cherries or pear branches pears yet it is the same trunk. The apples do not turn into cherries or pears nor do the cherries/pears turn into apples nor do apple varities change.

The Lord made an "everlasting" covenant with Abraham and decendents reguarding the land and being their God. (Gen 17) Either the covenant is "everlasting" or it is not. If it is, then the Lord is still concerned with the people of Israel and the land. If not then it is not "everlasting" and God lied to Abraham.

Personally I don't understand all the details. I just believe what He said. There are apples and cherries on the tree. OK, wild olives and natural olives (NASB) ;). Two fruits, one tree. He is the gardner. I just have to bear the fruit He prunes me to bear. the rest is His part.

***********************************
Quote:

All this debate over natural Israel and the Church seems to miss the point. The point is that "he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye" (Zech. 2:8)! God is jealous over something, very jealous! To have the Lord on your side, to know that God is jealous over that to which you are committed, and fiercely jealous over it, that the Lord is not going to let it be set aside or overlooked. What matters is that we are in that something for which God is jealous. Oh, to have the jealousy of God on our side in the work to which we are committed!

In Christ,

Ron

*************
Amen!

REJOICE! =)
Mary

These articles I quoted are very interesting, I've learned something new:

"The reason that the Best Selling gospel could not be preached before about 1918, is that the total dedication demanded by the four Gospels had to be removed. It wasn't until the dispensational teaching of Darby, better known as the Dispensational theology, of the Scofield reference bible, RELEGATED the discipline taught by the four Gospels, to an EARLIER DISPENSATION. "

"Ahhhhh! That's why we frequently hear that Jesus "didn't talk to us - he talked to them" - and important for us would then be that "the new testament starts only after his death" - That's Darbys Dispensational theology, that is not the gospel. Jesus then is no longer relevant, Paul is. And he is easily misunderstood as we know, especially if someone doesn't listen to Jesus anymore. That's where most of the error comes from, and we talk and associate with a "Jesus that never talked to us".

.. and that's also why we cannot understand this promise:

Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. Ex 32:13

so what does "seed" mean in the above promise, natural or by faith? Since it's meant "for ever" there can only be one conclusion:

Galatians 3:29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Am not interested in getting into a discussion here but did find this very interesting:

""Where did it all Begin? Japan sent their ambassador to Geneve, Switzerland to deliver the official stand of Japan concerning the
Israel-Palestinian situation. Quote "Cease Jerusalem over to the Palestinians for the capitol of the nation of Palestine. Give back all territory taken in the 1967 war back to Syria, and other nations." That was delivered March 9th 2011. 48 hours later on March 11, 2011 the record breaking earthquake hit Sendai, Japan with a Tsunami that also broke all records destroying thousands of lives, homes, businesses, schools, temples, shrines and farms in its 250 mile path. As this happened my heart broke for the people and all those beautiful children who perished in all of this." "

Makes me wonder how many similar incidents are there that we know little about?

Consider the most recent week: lawlessness running amok, crazy weather that results in cropland being flooded - too wet - where planting is being delayed and if this situation persists there will be a food shortage (we are very wet and more rain is predicted for this week - we live in an major agricultural area in MS); too cold - freezing wheat - happened in Kansas; tornadoes - we are personally seeing its frequency increasing in our area. Politics? Seems like these other events are overshadowing what may be going on in the political realm - who knows what is being done while people's eyes are diverted elsewhere.

Isaiah 2:12-22 details how God will impose judgement upon a nation. It will effect people, nature, national security and commerce. Reading Isaiah is like reading modern news in poetic form.

Interesting thread, servant.