Second Child of 'Faith Healing' Parents Dies

By MICHAEL RUBINKAM and MARYCLAIRE DALE Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA April 23, 2013 (AP)

A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.

Prosecutors said Tuesday that a decision on charges will be made after they get the results of an autopsy.

Catherine Schaible's attorney, Mythri Jayaraman, cautioned against a rush to judgment, and said the couple are good parents deeply distraught over the loss of another child.

"There are way more questions than answers at this point. We haven't seen the autopsy report. We don't know the cause of death of this child," Jayaraman told The Associated Press. "What we do know is Mr. and Mrs. Schaible are distraught, they are grieving, they are tremendously sad about the loss of their most recent baby."

A man who answered the phone at a listing for Herbert Schaible declined to comment and hung up.

A jury convicted the Schaibles of involuntary manslaughter in the January 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, Kent. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite. His parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they had thought he was getting better.

A Case of Murder or Faith Healing?

The Schaibles were sentenced to 10 years' probation.

At a hearing Monday, a judge told the couple they had violated the terms of their probation, noting the Schaibles had told investigators that they prayed to God to make Brandon well instead of seeking medical attention.

"You did that once, and the consequences were tragic," Philadelphia Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner said, according to the Philadelphia Daily News.

Prosecutors on Monday sought to have the couple jailed, but Lerner permitted them to remain free because their seven other children had been placed in foster care.

"He feels they are a danger to their children — not to the community, but to their own children," Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore, who prosecuted the couple in 2010, said Tuesday.

Herbert Schaible, 44, and his 43-year-old wife grew up in the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia and have served as teachers there. The church's website has a sermon titled "Healing — From God or Medicine?" that quotes Bible verses purportedly forbidding Christians from visiting doctors or taking medicine.

"It is a definite sin to trust in medical help and pills; and it is real faith to trust on the Name of Jesus for healing," says the message, from last May.

A phone message left with the church on Tuesday was not immediately returned.

The church's pastor said in 2010 that the couple had never received medical care themselves beyond the help of a lay midwife who attends home births.

The Schaibles did take their children for medical checkups as required by their probation, according to Jayaraman, the defense attorney. Jayaraman said that Brandon was checked by a doctor when he was 10 days old, but she did not know whether the child had seen a doctor since.

"Nobody argues that these aren't very loving, nurturing parents," she said Tuesday. "Whether their religion had anything to do with the death of their baby, we don't know."

———

Rubinkam reported from northeast Pennsylvania.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/2nd-child-pa-couple-dies-praying-19020607

This story has been making waves in some other forums I frequent. It leaves one scratching their heads because on one hand it appears to make God look as if He is silent. On the other hand we have a Fundamentalist family who seem to be as the word of faith crowd in refusing medical treatment because God will heal.

At what point does something such as this become dilusional for Christians?
I know preachers have preached from the pulpit 'By His Stripes we are Healed' at this used to be a big verse thundered from the pulpit but yet it doesn't happen as some preacher preach it.

No doubt this story will cause many who don't believe in God or in religion to strengthen their own personal stance on what they believe. Yet it causes Christians to use excuses for me. i.e. one person said 'if these people were true Christians....'. What is that supposed to mean? It sounds like a judgment while trying to repair a wound to show that God is still there but for whatever reason didn't heal their kid. I find it to be an immature response and yet how does a mature Christian respond to such a thing?

I really wonder what the Christian communities response to this is because no doubt we are going to see more people fall away from their faith as a result of what they read in this story. I struggle within my own being alot but not because of this story.

How tragically sad, really tragic.

If these are sincere believers, who are willing to put there faith into action and 'sacrifice' their children for their belief, they are better than I am.

Not sure I would go that far in standing for what I believe especially when its not an issue of salvation.

Got me thinking about the first century believers whose children were mauled by wild animals because they didn't want to deny the faith. Thats really a deep revelation of his love to keep them satnding.

Your faith should be a "part" of your healing, along with doctors, and medicine and etc. "Matthew 9:12" On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

The question also arises, can we call this people Christians and just misguided? Or do we see them as misguided altogether?

At what point should a Christian believe God is going to heal? Meaning, how does faith work in this process v. leaving it in the hands of a doctor to work for a fix?

Hi MrBillPro,

MrBillPro wrote ////Your faith should be a "part" of your healing, along with doctors, and medicine and etc. "Matthew 9:12" On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.////

That is streching Matthew 9:12 out of its context.

Hi DEADn

DEADn wrote ////The question also arises, can we call this people Christians and just misguided? Or do we see them as misguided altogether?////

Is their anything that you found from the artical that would suggest that these people are not Christians?

Whom is to say that they are misguided ?

Their first son died of bacterial pneumonia. pneumonia is the leading cause of death for this age group.

Whom can say that if they had done as King Asa and trusted in the physicians that thier children would have lived ?

Many Whom have trusted in the Physicians have also lost their children.

Hi ZekeO

ZekeO wrote ////How tragically sad, really tragic.

If these are sincere believers, who are willing to put there faith into action and 'sacrifice' their children for their belief, they are better than I am.

Not sure I would go that far in standing for what I believe especially when its not an issue of salvation.////

This is a difficult issue, one that I struggle with, At this point in my walk, I would have done as everyone else and taken my children to the doctor, but I do not at all condemn these parents.
I do not feel that any Christian should condemn them.

proudpapa...That is stretching Matthew 9:12 out of its context.

Well i just read the bible at face value, i am not a teacher of the word, so Jesus said the sick are the ones that need a doctor, that's how i read it and that's my opinion. If you have any doubt, talk to Jesus and get back and tell us what he really meant.

RE////Well i just read the bible at face value, i am not a teacher of the word, so Jesus said the sick are the ones that need a doctor, that's how i read it and that's my opinion. If you have any doubt, talk to Jesus and get back and tell us what he really meant.////

He is using an analogy, that is more than evident by the passage.

When Paul says "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith" We do not read it at face value and say that Paul was indorsing physical fighting, nor was Paul revealing himself as a Sports Enthusiast (even though some sports enthusiast will try to argue the such from the passage) In both cases the analogy being used is not an endorsement of the subject matter choosen, to imply the such is to do gymnastics with the scripture.

[quote}
The church's website has a sermon titled "Healing — From God or Medicine?" that quotes Bible verses purportedly forbidding Christians from visiting doctors or taking medicine.

"It is a definite sin to trust in medical help and pills; and it is real faith to trust on the Name of Jesus for healing," says the message, from last May.

proudpapa
This is part of the article that shows that their decisions is a bit skewed. If what they believed is this and they kid died then we have the presume this was God ordained that their kid was not healed? And yet if they had taken the kid to the doctor, chances are the kid would be alive. Where is the balancing of scales here?

This is the kind of story which can and will cause some to depart from their faith or just back away from this kind of religious belief because of the outcome. Either God isn't a healer, or He choose not to heal this kid or God does not exist in the first place. These are the conclusions I come to from the article.

I think it is very dangerous for Christians to bury their head in the sand with incidents such as this and think 'Well, God has a higher plan in this' when society sees it has a type of abuse and especially after this happened to a 2nd child of theirs. Some will see it as child abuse and yet how can you not say it is?

I would urge everyone to search the First Century Gospel Church website: http://www.fcgchurch.org/

Unstead of casting stones of judgment, We should naturally have a deep hurt and God given compassion for this couple as they have lost a second child and have had the state take their 7 other children away from thier loving, nurturing parents, and given to the care of the foster care system (This has to be a nightmare!) not to mention that this couple may go to prison, for no other reason, than that they had faith to trust on the Name of Jesus for healing instead of faith in modern medicine. (that is persecution!)

Will we be as the World or will we recognize when our brethren are in hurt and need of our support.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how we could help this couple ?

Here is the basic tenants for what the the First Century Gospel Church believe:

What We Believe:1.We believe that the Bible is the inspired, infallible, and authoritative Word of God (which is a written revelation of His divine will).

2.That there is only one God who eternally exists in three persons (called the Trinity): Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3.We believe in the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, His sinless life on earth, His divine miracles, His atonement for sin on the cross, His resurrection to life, His ascension to the right hand of God, and in His personal return to earth in power to rapture God's true children.

4.That for the salvation of the lost and sinful, repentance and faith in Christ provides regeneration by the Holy Spirit and that a continuing faith in Christ is the only way of salvation.

5.We believe in the on-going ministry of the Holy Spirit who dwells within the heart of every true believer to give the ability to live a godly life in Christ Jesus. Also that His power to convict, to guide, and to enlighten are available to believers today.

6.We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost... the saved unto the resurrection of Eternal Life, and the lost unto the resurrection of eternal suffering.

7.That everyone (of every nation, tribe, people and language) is equal in the sight of God, so all true believers are unified members of the body of Christ.

8.We believe that it is important to practice water baptism by triune immersion, and serve the Lord's Supper on a regular basis. We do not believe that either of these practices is essential for salvation, but the commemorating of them gives evidence of our faith in Christ.

9.That it is the personal responsibility of the church (and individual Christians in their own life) to witness for Christ and to share the gospel however led to do so (and whenever the Holy Spirit presents the opportunity).

http://www.fcgchurch.org/Main%20Pages/Beliefs-Basic%20Tenants.html

I believe that God wants us to understand His word. I think many many Many times we try to over think it & rationalize this & compare that & the confusion sets in. There are many things I don't understand nor will I but I just move along & pray that if the Lord desires me to understand it, He'll give me the wisdom. If not, I move along knowing I'll never know the mind of God. I love studying it, I'm very simple & if He chooses to show me a meaning to something, well Hallelujah but if He doesn't, He has His reasons or I just figure I can live without it. I think knowing it completely would puff us up. So, I just remain a fool for Christ & retain the wisdom He desires me to attain.

5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Here Paul commands timothy to take something for his infirmities ....

I feel not giving / taking medicine is like saying "Im not going to get a job, and God will provide for Me..."

It is writtin " Thou shall not tempt thy LORD thy God"

We must not put trust in Science and Medicine, but in the one whom created all things, and provides all things, and God has provided medicine and Science for the health of his Church and kingdom..
May God recieve the Glory
andy

When does it cross the line of parents using Faith in God for healing vs. medicine for healing? This couple lost 2 kids because medicine could have saved their from their sickness but they believed God would heal them. For whatever reason God did not heal them. Because the state is taking away their kids is this really a state of persecution on part of the state or is it child abuse on behalf of the parents?

Let's say a Jehovah Witness' child needs a blood transfusion and it will save the child. Parents refuse and the kid dies. It happens a 2nd time as well. Is this child abuse or religious persecution? I see it as both. On one hand the State much respect the faith of the parents and yet on the other hand there is medicine to help but it pushed away. Does common sense come into play anywhere?

Is it balanced believing to believe that God will heal every sickness in a family?

Re: ///Will we be as the World or will we recognize when our brethren are in hurt and need of our support.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how we could help this couple ? ///

praying for them, and encouraging them, that God is still a good God..
what is their church already doing?
are they helping with the cost of burials?
are they providing them with lawyers?

andy

I find this situation disturbing. It upsets me that some gov agency has the authority to tell me when we should seek medical help. This is a personal matter and if for any reason good parents opt to forgo it, that should be their choice. They should not have to fear any gov agency breathing down their neck for the decision you make concerning health care. It is like a lot of other stupid laws - like forbidding a dairy farmer from selling raw cow milk! Stupidier then dumb. (I grew up on a dairy farm and we used raw milk all the time and it never made us sick or crazy - maybe that is, oh never mind...)

If a couple for Biblical reasons decide to forgo medical assistance, this is their right and privilege. They did not sin to do so, neither would they have sinned getting the help, either. It is a matter of opinion and in their case conviction.

My opinion...and I do have a few...:-)

ginnyrose

This is sad but not because a child died. The real issue who we are accountable to. Ultimately, we will all stand before God and every thought, word and deed will be tried. If it did not originate from the Father, we are accountable. When we try to weigh the motives based on external ethical criteria, we get knotted up be because we are not walking as Christ did, judging not based on the seen but on what comes down from the Father. At the same time, we must discern the spirits to know whether what we are hearing is from above. I've had experiences where I have done something that appears good, or repeatedly tried to, only to have the Word or Spirit rebuke me for trying to do it for my own righteousness. Some of these things were things that friends had been lead into because of something God was working on in their life but not mine. There have been other times where I haven't obeyed because of fear and 'waited on God' though He had already shown me otherwise. It's really important that we aren't following the traditions of men, even if they emphasize neglected Truth, because emphasis requires elaboration which can lead exaggeration which transforms the Truth into a lie. If the suffering this couple is under is godly then they will perseverance and develop hope. May we have the same mind in us.

A wise man will hear and increase in learning, and a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel. -Proverbs 1:5