Pentecostals and Charismatics, what do make of this?

Dear family & friends in Christ,

Over the last weekend Pr Daniel ministered at a Four Square Gospel Church and an AOG church in Sydney, Australia where more than 400 people in all attended the 4 revival services.

The Spirit of God moved mightily at every service, with many receiving a fresh touch and supernatural encounter from the awesome presence of the Lord Jesus Christ!

I am sure many of you have heard, that at the beginning of the 20th century, Smith Wigglesworth prophesied about Australia’s mighty revival and how God will use Australia to impact the nations.

3 years ago Pr Daniel ministered at the same AOG church in Sydney, where he just preached over the weekend. The Senior Pastor of this church was Pr Norm Armstrong, who is now 95 years old. Pr Daniel feels that now is the time to share what happened at that meeting 3 years ago.

As Pr Norm got up to introduce Pr Daniel to preach to the congregation, he suddenly came under a great anointing of the Holy Spirit, and started sharing about what happened when he was a young boy.

He said, “My father was a Salvation Army officer who sold insurance policies for a living. One of his customers was an elderly lady who would all ways tell him, ‘Son you need to be baptised in the Holy Spirit’. One day the lady got him through the Holy Spirit, he was baptised in the Holy Spirit and started speaking in tongues. This resulted in him having to leave the Salvation Army. Then my father went on to start a Pentecostal gathering at our home. Our home was possibly one of the first places in Australia in the early 1900’s where the Holy Spirit was free to move.

I was only a very young boy when my Dad told me one day that a man called Smith Wigglesworth was coming to minister in our home, and that he was a mighty man of God. We were all very excited. The day came, and our house was packed out with people. I wanted to get a good look at him and the only place was the toilet seat, so I went in there to watch him preach.

Suddenly, Smith stopped preaching and told me (Pr Norm) to come out of the toilet. Then he laid hands on me and started prophesying over me.” He said, “Australia you have been chosen by God for a great move of the Holy Spirit. This move of God will be the greatest move of God ever known in mankind’s history and will start towards the end of the 20th century and move into the 21st century. This move of God will start a great revival in Australia, spread throughout the whole world and usher in the second coming of Jesus. This will be the final revival before the coming of the Lord.

God will rise up a man in Australia who will lead this move of God under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. This man will bow down to no one other than God. He will have tremendous favour in the nation of Australia.

My son, my (Smith Wigglesworth) eyes will not see this man, but you (Pr Norm Armstrong) will meet this man before you go to be with the Lord. Now I will lay hands on you and pass on the mantle of God for this great mission. When you see this man place your hands on him and prepare him for this mission and pass on this mantle.”

Then Pr Norm Armstrong turned and looked at Pr Daniel Nalliah and said, “You are that man I have been waiting for so many years, come here.”

Pr Daniel stated, “I was so excited to hear the Word of the Lord from Smith Wigglesworth as I was so longing to meet someone who could confirm it. I was absolutely shocked when Pr Norm called me out. I fell on my knees and started sobbing and crying in the presence of God as the presence of God was so amazing at that moment.”

Then Pr Norm laid hands on Pr Daniel and passed on the mantle as instructed by Smith Wigglesworth. He then lifted his hands up to heaven and said, “I am now ready to come home.”

Pr Daniel stated, “From that day onwards we have seen an amazing wave of healings and miracles in our ministry. It was so good to be back at the church where I received this great prophetic word from a true soldier in the army of God.

I pray, Lord please help me to fulfil this great commission. I honestly don’t feel worthy of this honour. Often I think, Who am I? I am a simple donkey for Jesus. I am so happy to carry Him wherever He wants to go. Lord Jesus, let your will be done. I am willing to go all the way. No turning back.

Please pray for me and my family that we will stay humble, but bold to carry out this great commission in the name of Jesus for our nation Australia and the nations of the world.

On Sunday the 16th of Oct 2011 after preaching at this same church, I thanked all the people of God, including Pr Norm, Pr Ruth and the leadership for giving me the opportunity to minister and also for the word I received from Pr Norm. I was so very encouraged as many people remembered the prophetic word.”

Let’s unite together as the Body of Christ to Rise Up Australia and the Nations of the World to Catch the Fire of the Holy Spirit before the 2nd Coming of our reigning King of kings and LORD of lords!

catch the fire ministry's

Hi Brothagary,
I looked at a couple of his videos and my first reaction is that he is a hype merchant.The suits, the talk about healings
etc.If he is to have such an impact he doesnt nessacarily need ministies etc but he does if he is only a show man.
I would like to see his bank balance! to see whether its a business.Also "catch the fire"is a typical hype name of the hype church,
Yours Staff

thanks for your response

Thanks brother Gary. I can see your heart in this. I haven't got anything to say but sorry for the reaction you got. I like your story. Sounds wonderful.

Thank you Brother Gary for posting this. I have several books by Smith Wigglesworth, and if we would dare to believe God as this man did, I believe that we would be seeing some of the same results.

Anytime a word like this comes out, the cessationists are going to come out of the woodwork to try to disprove it.

If I lived in Australia, I would be very encouraged by this word.

Mike

Hi all,
If you are offended brothers/sisters in my answer I can't do anything about that.I was saved in Melbourne and have a soft spot for Australia.The article is a good article;I was answering whether I thought this man was genuine or not.He may well be but based on what I saw its hard not to compare him to the USA hype merchants;the outward appearance,the flashy ministry name and the catchy doctrine that is about healing etc.
I wasnt commenting on Smithwigglesworth at all,
I hope he does turn out to be the real deal but if he starts hypeing it up we know he is not,
Yours Staff
P.s I believe in all the gifts for today

Hi Brothagary,
I was wondering as you stirred my interest on Smithswiggleworth as to where you could look at his Prophesy on Australia independant of Catch the fire ministry?
Thanks Staff

Apparently a similar prophesy by Smith Wigglesworth was given over David Du Plessis in 1936 in South Africa and also in 1947 Wigglesworth was supposed to have prophesied at the UK Elim Conference "the biggest move of the Holy Spirit in the UK that the world has ever seen and will eclipse all former revivals including the Wesleyan & Welsh revival and will flow from the UK into Europe and into the ends of the earth". There is doubts over the authenticity of this prophesy too as he died in March 1947 - and there is also no record of it.
Sounds like someone is 'copycatting' to me!

Hi Armkelly,Ceri,
Anything on Australia specifically?thats not on the catch the fire website,Yours Staff

thank you all for your responses

just letting you know I cut and pasted the whole article it was not any thing to do with me ,other then I live in Australia

I realise that sermon index indorses smiths wiggles worth

to be honest iv struggled a bit with him due to some of the things I read about him when he healed ,like striking people ,,,,,,but I don't want over react ,so i try to remain neutral ,,,I stumbled across the prophecy ,traced it back to this ministry in Australia ,,,,and I just wanted to hear what others think and weather they have ever herd of this prophecy,,,,,

I think I as many people would love to see a revival in my own country ,,,but I think my view is in wont be like this neither will in be like the one brother Andrew described In his recent post ,,,,but I apreacite all your feed back and opinions , I realy do ,,, blessings

Hey Gary,

Another Aussie here! - I used to be based in Melbourne for many years, during which I attended a Charismatic church for several years.

I have heard Danny Nalliah speak on occasions. Without pronouncing a view on the newsletter you had shared, I'd like to share some thoughts on him. In short, his "prophetic" record has not been good.

During the Aussie 2007 Federal Election - as you would recall, the contest was between John Howard and Kevin Rudd. John Howard as the incumbent Prime Minister was not doing well in the polls. His deputy was Peter Costello, and it was expected that Costello would succeed Howard as Prime Minister should they win another term.

Danny Nalliah claimed that:

"The Lord told me to spend some personal time with Prime Minister John Howard and to prophetically prepare Federal Treasurer Peter Costello as the future prime minister of Australia. I will boldly declare that Prime Minister John Howard will be re-elected in the November election (if the Body of Christ unites in prayer and action) and pass the leadership onto Peter Costello sometime after."

The incident was reported in the papers - the particular article I read spoke of Danny Nalliah "anointing" Peter Costello as future prime minister. This description was drawn from his original letter, as he had likened himself to the prophet Samuel anointing David as the next king of Israel.

As we now know, Howard lost, Rudd won and Costello did not become PM. The "prophecy" did not pass the test.

In 2009, Victoria had a series of bushfires - bushfires are a regular occurrence during the summer season, but weather conditions for that year were particularly bad... This resulted in the highest death toll Australia has had for bushfires, and the incident was subsequently dubbed the "Black Saturday bushfires".

Danny Nalliah claimed that he had a dream in October 2008 - "I saw fire everywhere with flames burning very high and uncontrollably". The interpretation of the dream which he shared was that God had removed His "conditional protection" due to Victoria's new abortion laws which had been passed in 2008. The bushfires were thus God's judgement on Victoria.

This was widely publicized, and Danny Nalliah subsequently experienced a huge backlash even among the Christian community. My mum noticed that Christian radio had stopped airing his ministry's advertisements.

I'm not sure if Danny Nalliah has apologized or recanted his position for either episode. His "prophetic" record has been dismal, and given the wide media publicity his statements have received, it has been very damaging to the name of Christ.

Nonetheless, the Apostle Paul reminds us - "Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good."

When I was a young Christian, I thought it strange for Paul to suggest not to treat prophecies with contempt (as the KJV wording goes) - why would anyone despise prophecies from God?

My guess is that false prophecies were probably not unusual - people claiming to speak on behalf of God when they weren't. Paul reminds us not to throw out the baby with the bathwater, and that there are indeed true prophets among the Lord's people.

btw Gary - if you're struggling with certain Pentecostal/Charismatic practices, I found these books to be helpful in sorting out my theology:

(i) A Biography of John Sung (Leslie Lyall)
(ii) The Diary of John Sung/The Journal Once Lost

I would suggest starting with the first book to get an overview of John Sung's life, this would make it easier to go through his diaries (which is quite thick, and they are only extracts!). His diaries shed light on many aspects of biblical theology and ministry practice.

One notable record in his diaries was his encounter with "hyper-charismatics". John Sung was accustomed to ministering powerfully in the Spirit, and had been blessed with many spiritual gifts. However, he met a group of people whose experience with the spiritual seemed different to his. This made John Sung deeply uncomfortable, and he was searching for an answer. He resolved the situation in a very interesting way - but I'll leave you to read about that account in his book =)

i actually do know Danny & am very good friends with His PA,
i can tell you he is a humble man & is a voice in this nation that is speaking up, when most of the bigger churchs are concerned with tickling peoples ears & the great old self help,work on you & just ask God to bless everythin you do & get more money, cause thats what God wants for you.

he has a heart for this nation & fought for free speech when Muslims took him to court & a case which went on for 5 years,
he doesnt have loads of cash of drive a fancy car,
he has integrity, he doesnt mince his words,

as to bushfrie prophecies ok can see how that might be a bot off, but with all prophecy it does have conditions to it,
the Lord says if you will the i will do this
the body of Christ here in Australia, is so disjointed its terrible, oh how it grieves me & must Grieve God that to many people are building there own kingdoms & not wanting to dwell together in unity? & in unity is where brothers dwell God says HE Will command a blessing,

danny cops flack but i can tell you he will stand even when others will not.

as for should christians be in politics? well he has a rise up australia party, which is getting noticed by your average australian, why? cause the other partys are not listening & who knows if God has not raised up Danny as voice for this season in our nation? do you know he hasnt
why should Gay,athiest,communist,God hating people make our polices? why cant christians have a say in how our nation should be run?

as for flashy names is rise up flashy or is it the intent of vision they have? to see people rise up in our nation? rise up in prayer? rise up & take hold of God whatever the cost,
read his book, he has been through some fires & testing as anyone who wants to do something for the Lord will be put through,

as for healings, he isnt flashy in his prayers as far as i know, he has seen people raised from the dead & had a doctor confirm the last person who died, isnt that the gospel? preach it teach it, lay hands on the sick, cast out demons? jesus said it not me
as far as im concerned if its in the bible i want to see it, live it bring Glory to the our risen Lord,

gifts not for today good if thats what you believ, but me im going for God, i dont want churchianity i want Christ & the fellowship of the Holy Spirit,

whos not to say that smith wigglesworth didnt say this?
did david du plessis go on to do what was said?

judge the fruit now & see where it all goes,

all i can say is, i think he has integrity, he is bold & i can tell you he has had many times threats on his life for the sake of the Gospel & his passion fod jesus is encouraging.

have a couple of his dvds if anyone would like 1?

blessing in the Lord

thanks Andrew ,and others for you responses ,im about to go to work so I will read more of what you posted later
blessings to all

brother gary

amrkelly et. al.

I have quite a few thoughts competing in my head right now, so I hope my two cents is cogent and not too scattered.

I have seen many men who have given "prophetic" words from time to time. Some were spot-on accurate, and some were not. But we are dealing with men here. I was born and raised among many who were close to some of the foundational men of 20th century pentecost. As a result I guess you could call me a pentecostal. I believe very strongly in the current working of the Holy Spirit as in Acts 2 and 1 Cor. 12-14. I have seen quite a few miraculous and wonderful works of God among His people. I have also seen some error creep into the Pentecostal ranks from time to time. Men, being falible, have fallen for some of these errors. One error that is often prevalent is found in the modern day prophetic movement. Though there are some very Godly men and women who are part of this movement, I believe it is foundationally flawed. I have seen men and women to whom spiritual status was dependent on always getting and delivering a "prophetic word". As a result, they go about seeking always to prophesy and, unfortunately, making a lot of things up. Usually they do not even realize that what is coming from them is from their own soul rather than from the Spirit of God. I have also seen genuine men of God who walked close to God that unknowingly mixed the thoughts of their own souls with the words of God. It is part of being human and falible I think.

There is also the dynamic of perspective when dealing with true prophecy. Prophecy in the Old Testament was often cloaked in very figurative language. Much of the prophecy concerning the end times is so. A great revival in Australia may not be something that the average, unsaved person on the street of Melbourne would notice in comparison to world events, but might be something that the believers would say, "Wow, I have never seen salvation and miracles on this scale before."

Another thing I have notice that definitely comes into play here is the tendency of the body of Christ to grant status to men because of their accomplishments or their charisma. My wife and I were in a meeting in the central USA where a man who had status in the body was asked to minister. Frankly, what he said was flaky and VERY shaky Biblically. It did not edify, but rather brought confusion and discord. I wondered how many solid, mature men of God whose names are unknown could have filled that pulpit and caused the body to be strengthened, matured, and edified. The same is true of men who, it seems, always have a "word". It is also true of men through whom the power of God does flow in mighty ways. So we elevate Brother so-and-so's prophecy to a high level because he is Brother so-and-so. We so often elevate the man in our own hearts and minds and then are wounded or even harmed when this falible man fails in one point or another.

I thank God for man like Wigglesworth. He has been a great example of faith to me and reading his sermons and hearing about his life has greatly benefitted me. But, it is possible that he could be wrong in some point. After all, he was human. I will hold tightly to the more sure word of prophecy (the Bible) and I will judge all other prophecy against that. Where it cannot be judged, I will adopt a wait and see attitude. If the word pertains directly to me, and it is in accordance with scripture, and it bears witness with me, I will take Paul's advise to Timothy and use it to war a good warfare.

I won't hold a man sacred. I will respect him. I will respect his work. I will respect his God given position in the body. But I will remember that he is but a man.

I am not sure if my ramblings really get across what I am thinking about this topic. I hope so.