The Opposite of Glory

What is the opposite of glory?

What is the opposite of glory?hi toddThis is a curious question? I wonder why you are asking it? Are you trying to define glory and see perhaps its contrast in the opposite? Glory really means the expressing of the inner, outwardly. God's glory is the shining out of what is within. Apparently God shields us from this by light. "Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: (Psa 104:2 KJV)"Moses asked to see God's glory and was told that God would cause His 'goodness' to pass by him. John in his letter says 'we beheld his glory, as of an only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth'. So Christ's glory was 'grace and truth', and the glory that Moses saw was God's 'goodness'. It is obvious that this has little to do with representations of 'glory' which are usually shown as pulsating light.In some senses the opposite of glory would be 'shame'. These verses make 'shame' the natural opposite of glory;O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame? how long will ye love vanity, and seek after leasing? Selah. (Psa 4:2 KJV)The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools. (Pro 3:35 KJV)He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. (Isa 22:18 KJV)As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame. (Hos 4:7 KJV)Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD'S right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory. (Hab 2:16 KJV)Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) (Phi 3:19 KJV)But you probably have in mind verses like "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (Rev 1:6 KJV)" What can this mean? I think here it does come through as an opposite of shame. In a sense it is 'credit worthiness'. Not the kind your plastic card needs, but the due worth that this person deserves. That is assessing God's character and achievements and giving him 'due credit' or 'the glory' for it. It is said in Romans that the first men 'gave not God the glory' neither were they thankful. This means they refused to give God the credit that was due.The word 'Worship' in its derivation is 'worth-ship'. The opposite of giving God is rightul credit and honour is blasphemy when someone attributes to God character which He does not 'deserve'.So there's a ramble to start us off. Why are you asking the question in this way?

Ron, Thanks a lot. I don't really know why I am asking the question other than it came into my mind the other day and I was really pondering it. You are probably right in that by understanding the opposite I will better understand what glory itself is. And this already seems to be proving true. I think shame (which I hadn't thought of I don't think) seems to be scripturally supported as being in contrast to glory. That really helps. If the picture of glory is bright shining, I wonder how to picture shame. I picture a person on their knees hunched over crying and like looking inward at themselves and it's dark. So I guess that kind of matches. Is shame evil or sinful? It seems odd to me, at the moment, that we can actually give this thing called "glory" to God. In fact, I hadn't made the connection until now but this also seems tied to the idea that we can, in a sense, hallow God's name. Because it seems clear that God is glorious and holy, period, whether we do anything or not. You know? But somehow we can give Him glory (does this make Him more glorious?) and hallow His name (does this make His name holier?).

I've understood glory as something heavy, weighty, of substance.-- as opposed to vain , vanity , emptyness. I know thats simplified but is that accurate? And I have a question to also consider ; when Solomon finished the temple of the Lord and the glory of the Lord filled the temple so that the Priests couldn't stand by reason of the Glory of the Lord which filled the house(1kings8:9-11), the glory was described as a cloud or later thick cloud. Why couldn't the priests stand to minister unto the Lord?Why does seeing God's glory affect us mortal men that way?

Todd writes:"If the picture of glory is bright shining, I wonder how to picture shame. I picture a person on their knees hunched over crying and like looking inward at themselves and it's dark."I think you've got something there, Todd. Have you been reading John Bunyan? Or T. Austin-Sparks? :-)"Remember that magnificent, though so simple, picture that Bunyan has given us of the man with the muck rake who has a crown of glory over his head, who is so occupied with his rake and so obsessed with what is down in the mud, that he does not see the glory but misses it all. That muck is our old man, and we are always turning him over to see if we can find something good in him, some glory. We are seemingly incapable of learning this one lesson, that there is no glory in that realm. We should finish all these investigations and lift up our eyes to the Lord of glory. This is how we will find the way of glory." TAS“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord” 2 Cor. 3:18. Now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is 1 John 3:2.Keep looking, brother,Rogerhttp://64.233.161.104/custom?q=cache:VyvdBUeALrkJ:www.austin-sparks.net/english/001333.html+The+Crown+of+the+Incorruptible&;hl=en&ie=UTF-8

dohzman, Thanks for adding those factors into the equation. I think the weightiness is a great factor to include in glory and to contrast that with emptiness and vanity. Vanity was actually one of the words I thought of when I was first pondering the opposite of glory. Now it's clearer. I am unsure if the dark cloud is actually the glory or just the surrounding/dwelling of the actual glory. 1 Kings 8:12 says, "The LORD said He would dwell in the dark cloud." I think that maybe the "raw" glory, so to speak, is actually within the dark cloud and the cloud serves as a help for humans so they can somewhat handle the presence of God's glory. It's like a sunroof, sunglasses, or tinting so if God comes like that it doesn't kill everyone. But I think that the essence of God Himself, the essence of God's glory, is bright light. 1 John 1:5 says, "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all."I think that perhaps part of the reason God's glory effects many men like that, especially at first, is because it's a shock to their system. They have no tolerance, so to speak. Like if you tried to lift 300 pounds your first time lifting weights, it might crush you. But you can build and get accustomed to more weight, you know? Like progressing "from glory to glory." What is crushing to the beginner may be no problem to the more seasoned. Or like gravity. Like if you lived in space your whole life and got accustomed to that atmosphere and then came to earth you probably would have to exert great effort just to move at first, but little by little you might be able to handle more and perhaps even walk and run around eventually. Hey, that analogy kind of works with the vanity concept well, doesn't it? So it seems like God's presence exists and comes in measures and levels. Like God is all-present, but sometimes His presence is manifest in a stronger, more potent, tangible measure. Like in levels and measures of weightiness too, right? Roger, Thanks for your input and encouragment as well. Cool picture of looking at yourself too much. Yes, I've read some Bunyan and Sparks, but very little, and not for awhile.

I also enjoyed Rodger's post very much. On the Glory of God I have had a difficult time noteing much difference between His Glory and His Holiness. However , I know theres a difference and its a fine line but I don't know exactly where that difference and line lays.I note Isa 6

Might be that his Holiness causes his Glory, or Glory is a result of his absolute Holiness. Holy being what he is, who he is, and how he behaves; and glory being the reflection or manifestation of that Holiness. Just a thought.

Brother Todd,

I'm going to say the opposite of the glory of God is Hell

I have been going around and around with what glory means for years. I have had people tell me things like: "look up at the heavens...that's the glory of God." When the Scripture says: "the heavens declare the glory of God." I have kept that glory concept in the back of my mind as I have studied various parts of Scripture. The glory manifested when the Lord allowed Moses to see Him through the cleft of the rock, over the ark, departed in Ezekiel, is mentioned in several ways in reference to Christ, and of the glory Jesus said: "now Father, glorify Me with the glory that I had with you before the world began." So right there, there are different levels of glory, one might say. No way we would say Jesus ever "lost" the glory of God, so at least I've convinced myself there are differing levels.

In short, the glory is the presence of God. He can turn up the dial whenever He wants, He can turn it down whenever He wants. I would say that the "full" glory of the Lord is in the heaven of heavens, where God's perfect love is manifested, which is where we will end up since we have trusted in Christ. I would say revivals show us God simply turning up the dial for a while.

Simply put, if Heaven is God's perfect glory, then Hell must be the opposite. There is no way to prove any of this biblically, it must be taken by inference.

Also, I would say that anyone that feels that they can fully define what the glory of God is is wrong. Because by saying you can fully define the glory of God, you are saying you can fully explain what Heaven will be like, when Scripture is clear that we either cannot do this, or maybe we are not allowed to understand what Heaven is like.

1 Cor 2: 9 However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” ”” the things God has prepared for those who love him””

2 Cor 12:13-14 And I know that this man””whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows””was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

Eph 3:20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,

Now for this part, I'm probably going to be labeled a borderline heretic by some, if not a full heretic, but I don't care. When we look at John 17 where Jesus said, "now Father, glorify me with the glory that I had with You before the world began" we can assume that he had the glory "dialed down" for His earthly visit. Now I want to say that I 100% believe that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man, and ever more will be. I don't believe He gave up ANY divinity ever. With that said in reference to the following verse...

Phil 2:7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

...I believe when He came to earth He simply had the glory dialed down. Since I can't even define what the glory is, other than the manifest presence of God that God can hide or turn up according to His will, then there is no way to define what that even means for Him to turn it up or down.

The Greek word ekenosen translated "nothing" here can also mean void, useless, or empty. Now we know that Jesus was never truly any of these things, but when Jesus became a baby, He was surely giving up something that He shared with the Father before the world began (we'll get back to that in a minute). Yes, I have friends smarter than me that disagree with that point, but many, many people that I have asked agree with me, that the whole point of the beginning of Philippians 2 is that He gave up the appearance of His royal status, He gave up His "reputation" that He had before the angels to be insulted by the Jews (Psalm 69). The Pharisees basically called Him a "bastard" when they said "we know who our father is." And to ignore this concept, for me, is to ignore the fact of Jesus "getting His hands dirty" by coming down here and living with us in this comparative dump in comparison with where He came from and where He returned to.

When I got my undergrad, I did a 2 hour "testing" where I was semi surrounded by pHD's and professors and they were allowed to "pummel" me with theological questions. I met with most of them ahead of time in preparation, and they all told me not to talk about the above concept. My close friend, being one of them, believes Jesus did to give up any glory, but simply put on flesh over Himself. Well I would ask what Phil 2:7 means when He "emptied himself" by coming to earth. I think he says that this just means He acted as a servant. And then also what did He mean when He said "now Father glorify me with the glory that I had before the world began."

BEYOND all of this, in Ezekiel, the text says that Ezekiel saw the glory of God "standing" by the river. I have a friend who is a Hebrew scholar (Jeremy Lyon), I will verify with him that this is the case, but that verse declares that the glory was standing as a human person. Well, the options here are limited to the 3 Persons of the Trinity. One of my friends said it must by Christ. But this friend says that ONLY Jesus has a body, but not the Father or the Son. But check these verses out from Daniel 7 (my asterisks mark the Ancient of Days quotes):

9 "As I looked,

"thrones were set in place,
***and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.
11 "Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

13*** "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

The Interpretation of the Dream

15 "I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. 16 I approached one of those standing there and asked him the meaning of all this.

"So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth. 18 But the holy people of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever””yes, for ever and ever.’

19 "Then I wanted to know the meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws””the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell””the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22*** until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

Well this is crystal clear to me that the Father indeed does have a body. If He is sitting on a throne, and Jesus approaches Him, this does seem to be the case. And if the Father and the Son have a body, then why not the Spirit, and if the Spirit has a body, could all 3 have appeared to Abraham (remember). Some would say "no those are angels", but the word spirit is interchangeable with the word angel. So the Angel of the Lord is the Spirit of the Lord, which to me is the Holy Spirit. From all this, I see the Holy Spirit standing by the river in Ezekiel, and I have felt that way about it for about a decade. If I'm wrong then so be it, but all that makes sense to me.

God bless you as you study about Jesus in His Word. Let's all become more like Him

(ADD ON AFTER READING YOU GUYS: if there is weight regarding the glory, then there are levels of glory. Just like adding weights in a workout...beautiful!!!)

Brother Roger eagleswings,

Great point. Keep marching down this road! That Bunyon concept put together with Sparks and that Paul quote will stick with me. Thanks!

I'm glad to hear that my response was helpful and resonated with you. I hope that the Bunyan concept, Sparks, and the Paul quote continue to inspire and motivate you on your journey. Remember, progress takes time and perseverance, but every step forward is a step in the right direction. Best of luck to you!
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