ashamed of our carnality?

Awesome post you started Greg. Great reply Stephen2. My response? My reply? Well... the verse I've found myself meditating on and praying personally is Psalm 139:23-24; "Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my thoughts. Point out anything in me that offends you, and lead me along the path of everlasting life." Conviction from the Holy Spirit seems to come so unexpectedly for me. I'll just be in the midst of living daily life and then God comes in and pierces my heart; calls up the deepest parts of me to light. And I find myself just... bare before the Lord. Just... letting myself be vulnerable to His examination and asking that He take the things in my life that offend Him and replace them with ways that please Him. Honesty is so key; is so needed. I don't want to be like Adam and Eve, covering myself with fig leaves and hiding amongst the trees when I hear the Lord calling my name. I want to be walking in the garden with Him; "I come to the garden alone, while the dew is still on the roses; And the voice I hear, falling on my ear, the Son of God discloses. He speaks, and the sound of His voice is so sweet the birds hush their singing; And the melody that He gave to me within my heart is ringing. And He walks with me, and He talks with me, and He tells me I am His own. And the joy we share as we tarry there, none other has ever known."Focusing on the goodness, perfection, consistency, and faithfulness of God is what gives me hope that it is possible to live in the Spirit rather than in the flesh, that the enemey doesn't have to be allowed to rip me off through my human weaknesses and failures. Rather than using the excuse that "I'm not perfect" to justify sin, I need to abide in the redemptive work of Christ, setting this captive free from my sins.

I was feeling rather smug for a few minutes even after reading your post. I go through many fasts and much prayer before I enter the pulpit. Basically 24 hrs of fasting and at least 8 hrs. prayer per 1hr. of sermon. Much of this time is spent searching my own heart and praying for the listeners in intercession.Then I downloaded G. Campbell Morgan's "Purity by the Cross". That re-emforced what you wrote in some things and conviction came and then today in the middle of my day I had an encounter with the presence of The Lord in His Holiness that put me to my face in a public setting. Very humbling. Sometimes even religious ,"good things" , like fastings and prayers can become just that, religious good things. I appreciate you folks more than you'll ever know. God Bless. Bro. Daryl

dohzman,I loved what you posted. It was great to read your heart and what God revealed to you. God is doing such a faithful, refining work in so many of us.greg,That's the compilation you let me borrow, right? Oh man... then I agree. It totally cut to the heart. I was convicted, definitely. Saddened a bit by the fact that the sins that were spoken of have been my sins. But God is faithful to set us free from our sins. I am so thankful for God's faithful work in my life and heart.

To be honest with you all...Upon first coming to this thread it caused one of those reactions like a dog twisting his head slightly to one side in puzzlement... Huh?Here?This fellowship of the burning heart..."Lukewarm"?Be it ever so far from us!Seems mostly the zeal is what gets many of us in trouble... That we might over do it not under. So maybe I am totally out of the loop here, though I understand some of the sentiment.But by way of encouragement and perhaps as an aside, was blessed and couldn't help bring this thread to mind as I listened yesterday in my travels to David Jeremiah and he was talking about Spiritual hunger. Many things stood out and sometimes you can anticipate where things are going but the cure to lack in this area and I agreed was;Forced feeding! The old grabbing the thought's by the scruff of the neck and forcing them to sit down and eat! :-) (From Gods word of course) If so inclined, you can hear it here:Happy Are the Hungryhttp://www.oneplace.com/Ministries/Turning_Point/Archives.aspHaven';t heard the whole series, just the message from 3/16/05You guys threw me for a loop on this one...Warm water? At SI?....

You guys threw me for a loop on this one... Warm water? At SI?....The big thing that God has been hitting me with lately is HONESTY. I know I love the Lord. Greg loves the Lord. Dohzman (D. Miller) loves the Lord. You love the Lord. But if we were totally honest with ourselves... we're sinful. We think impure thoughts. We get angry and defend ourselves in the flesh. We don't have a bridle on our tongue, speaking without thinking. When we see that we're walking strong, we start relying on our own ability to do good and right. These are just some examples of Christian imperfection. The list could go on and on. If it weren't for the Bible reminding me to be honest with myself concerning my sinful nature, I too would think I'm fine and good. It's so easy to just see the surface value of things; my surface value Christianity. But I know, we all know, as the Scriptures say time and time again, the Lord looks at the heart. He examines the deepest part of ourselves. The parts we hide, are blind to, deny, sweep under the rug, even justify. And I think that's what we're talking about here. Not necessarily the good Christian life people see being lived by us daily, but the deepest parts of our heart, and the hidden things in our mind and soul, that only God knows because He formed us. "People may think they are doing what is right, but the LORD examines the heart. The LORD is more pleased when we do what is just and right than when we give Him sacrifices" (Proverbs 21:2-3).""End the wickedness of the ungodly, but help all those who obey you. For you look deep within the mind and heart, O righteous God. God is my shield, saving those whose hearts are true and right" (Psalm 7:9-10)."You would not be pleased with sacrifices, or I would bring them. If I brought You a burnt offering, you would not accept it. The sacrifice You want is a broken spirit. A broken and repentant heart, O God, You will not despise" (Psalm 51:16-17)."The LORD's searchlight penetrates the human spirit, exposing every hidden motive" (Proverbs 20:27).And so, being honest with ourselves concerning the hidden things in the deepest parts of ourselves, we need to come to God humbly, open and bare, and ask Him to help us fulfill Jesus' commandment to, "... love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment" (Matthew 22:37-38).

Really, Really desperate for God. This caught my attention. I am ashamed at how easily this flesh can get so distracted. Every morning I seek him, I seek not to grieve him. But this flesh! When all I desire to do and to be is in the inner courts, and pressing behind the veil. I have learned that, behind the veil is where you get the best results. Too long I have stayed just in the inner court. And when I try, I try to share what is in this heart, it comes out so offensive because I there is just so much. And Yes I can relate to the zeal, the zeal of doing his will.Why does this walk seem to get harder, harder for me. I have never wanted his will for my life, like I do now and it feels so overwhelming.I can not always worry about what people think or what they may say and they say about me. The Lord knows the way that I take, and if he chooses to continue to test me, well I know that the outcome will be great, and glorious. We all have a long way to go brother. Most importantly we are All going somewhere. We are all going to see the King, the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lord, the one who is and is to come, the I am that I am the Great I am. The Arthur and the Finisher of our Faith.God Bless You,Angie

Brother Greg,i am far from perfect, but thank God i don't feel carnal anymore ... There was a short time ago when i knew i was carnal, but then i had a fresh encounter with Jesus ...On your subject of "The church and our carnality" ... you wrote,Quote:"We know ALL about it yet we either ...#1 - don't take the step to change ...#2 - or can't ...#3 - or want to but just don't feel motivated to do so????Now why do you think that is? ... i think the Church's comfortableness in our carnality today can be summed up in this phrase ..."No fear of consequence" ... Long time, no hear from God ... If we still retained a healthy fear of the Lord this would not even be a thread ... i really think that the reason for our "lukewarmness" is "the lack of fear that there are really any consequences for our apathy" ... We've watched other saints get away with half stepping for decades and no lightning bolts outta the sky zapping them ... We've been getting away with our own complacency and the ground hasn't opened up and swallowed us ... Hey we've even went so far as to put up in our lives our own personal, often private, idolotrous groves and high places, giving divided worship to our Lord and He's not sent some scourage to erase our slates ... So what's to fear? ... All the rage from today's pulpits is God's so merciful, loving and kind ... He's our Timex God, we just keep on givin Him a lickin and He just keeps on tickin (in the understanding and forever forgiving us department) ... God's no longer to be feared ... He's our giant cuddly Almighty Teddy Bear in the sky ... And i'd even venture to say that there are some professed Christian's wondering if He's really up there at all?i know that was pretty much my tack (except for the latter) up until the end of 2002/beginning of 2003 ... That's when Jesus got a hold of me in an excruciating excercise of conviction that i personally don't ever want to go thru again ... He exposed me not only to my vile reasons for putting Him on the back burner, but also made me to understand the dire consequences of my continued disrespect of His/my Father's love and what He'd done for me by Himself at Calvary, and the grief that my wicked self satisfied, half stepping, slipping and sliding, fence straddling, so called Christian walk was causing Holy Spirit residing in me ... What He showed me about myself was bad enough, but what really scared me was the prerequisite sensation that i got that He had just about had enough of my nonsense ... i know that He said He'd never leave us or forsake us, but the awful sensation i got was like when David said, "Lord, please don't take your Holy Spirit from me" ... It was right after that that Holy Spirit began talking/directing/instructing me about "Holiness, Purity and Power" and i've been on His mission ever since ... That experience changed me, and thru it Holy Spirit has made me much more serious (to serious to many) about Christ, His Church, His Commision and His Charity, but i have to tell you it's dwindled my association with fellow saints to even fewer than before ... In God's progression i've found that you'll have beau coup friends in the jammed packed Outer Courtyard ... Fewer if He can move you on into the Most Holy ... And hardly any if He can move you into the Holy of Holies (but His Shekinah presence makes you forget all that) ... There's no doubt about it, we are the "carnal" Laodicean Church ...And as to Ravenhill's quote;"We know we should be living better then we are living."The motto of so many saints today is;"We can't be living better (in Christ) when our pursuit is of better living (in the world)"That's exactly why America is about to become the equivalent of an economic sensory deprivation chamber ... Consequence! ... Think He'll have our attention then?

Hi Yodi,Most certainly with you there.If anything growing deeper into this walk the last thing you begin to feel is smug or complacent and of course it is always just one small step to turn around...in the opposite direction.One scripture that has always sat very closely to the frontal lobe:1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Seem to be stuck musing on all this, how it all applies. This morning a line logged in the thoughts;Poured outLove this rendering from the ISV:Therefore, if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any comfort of love, if there is any fellowship in the Spirit, if there is any compassion and sympathy, then fill me with joy by having the same attitude, sharing the same love, being united in spirit, and keeping one purpose in mind. Do not act out of selfish ambition or conceit, but with humility think of others as being better than yourselves. Do not be concerned about your own interests, but also be concerned about the interests of others. Have the same attitude among yourselves that was also in Christ Jesus: In God's own form existed he, And shared with God equality, Deemed nothing needed grasping. Instead, poured out in emptiness, A servant's form did he possess, A mortal man becoming. In human form he chose to be, and lived in all humility, Death on a cross obeying. Now lifted up by God to heaven, A name above all others given, This matchless name possessing. And so, when Jesus' name is called, The knees of everyone should fall Where'er they are residing. Then every tongue in one accord, Will say that Jesus Christ is Lord, While God the Father praising.* And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who is producing in you both the desire and the ability to do what pleases him. Do everything without complaining or arguing so that you may be blameless and innocent, God's children without any faults among a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine like stars in the world as you hold out the word of life. Then I can boast in the day of Christ that I did not run in vain or work hard in vain. Yet even if I am being poured out like an offering as part of the sacrifice and service I offer for your faith, I rejoice, and I share my joy with all of you. In the same way, you also should rejoice and share your joy with me. Phi 2:1-18(* Italics mine, so poetic!)Oh that I could recall all that came about thinking and praying about all this...For starters, as it applies here, bouncing off the thoughts of you all, it still comes down to dying to self and even that seems to get misconstrued a bit. On the one hand it has a 'sound' of annihilation and in a sense it is, to all that needs to be rooted out at the core. But also it is an exchanged life. I know we have touched on this before in various ways but we don't get left out of the picture entirely when we abandon ourselves to God. It's as if we willingly hand over ourselves and He gives us our life back with a new heart and with the right motives and the right purpose, namely, His.One of the more difficult things am finding is to talk about ones self without talking about one's self... Meaning, this just ain't about us ultimately, but we do get to go along for the ride....sigh,... for want of proper expression."Since you so gladly put up with fools...." I will go on, your "King of the eternal post" as it was so succinctly put the other day. :-)Last year was a personal time of going down deep into the blessed pit of self introspection. The reason I say that is that it was another one of those paradox's. A lot of it was coming out into the sharing amongst the saints here and couple even mentioned it privately, that it was too much introspection. But for this particular knucklehead it was a blessing.The reason? It began to show how much I still cared for my 'self'... that 'what about me?', What about the future? What about how am I going to get out of debt? How am I going to 'fix' the problems at home? And the church, and all the false prophets and, and , and ...But there was more still. Anger...mostly constrained and had hoped it was only that sanctified type... but, no, not exactly. And then the prettiest of them all, pride. Didn't realize how much it still tripped me up. All these things the Lord was showing 'me' and much anguish, weeping, repentance, many 'dark nights of the soul', even some excruciating times of feeling that the Lords Presence had gone and that was the worst of it all. "Why have You forsaken me?" ... Could you even imagine how Jesus felt? Mine only being just the slightest taste.But here is what this blessed dying began to produce: A real honest look at it all, as Yodi stated. To come finally to an 'end of ourselves' in this fashion (and surely it is ongoing) produces a sense of "Bleeeech" when it comes to 'me', 'my' opinion, 'my' this and 'my' that...who cares? The word(s)for this year personally is: It just doesn't matter.If I am a fool.If I am embarrassed. (often!)If I am thought of as ...And similarly, only that which is important to God is important to me. Even that sounds pious, just as many times to hear "All to the Glory of God". But do we really mean it? Not an accusation, but is it really in truth that we strive after that end? For the most part I do believe it is so amongst us, but there are times...And we are all still in class here, learning more and more;Rom 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Out of time for this rambling. Looking forward to your thoughts, you saints.

You know brother Greg,i too can't get your questions out of my mind, and as i was talking to our Lord about it this morning Holy Spirit brought this passage to my mind ..."As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in His throne ... Rev. 3:19-21The point that stuck out is "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" ... Christ is talking to His own here ... So it makes me wonder about any professed Christian who can comfortably continue in carnality and either ...#1 - don't take the step to change ... How can that be if in fact one is indwealt by Holy Spirit and one's lifestyle is causing Him grief? ... Whenever i'm in the wrong i can feel Holy Spirit's grief, and it makes me feel spiritually sick, which i believe spills over into the mental, emotional and physical if it's not quickly repented of ... My experience is that grieving and quenching Holy Spirit will cause a truly saved person depression, because it's impossible to not hear Christ knocking on the door of one's heart when we're living wrong, while opening up the door to Him in surrender brings on a perfect peace and joy beyond understanding ...#2 - or can't ...Can't, i believe, for the truly saved person is impossible, for you know that the power to do is not yours in the first place, but Christ's ... Won't is more like it, because surrender to His knock makes can't a moot point ...#3 - or want to but just don't feel motivated to do so????And on this one i think it's more "don't want to" and am "very motivated to not do so" ... i think it takes far more energy if one is hearing Christ knocking at His door. to not open, because Christ is most persistent and patient in His knock, to the point that one may foolishly wish, and hope, that He'll get tired and just go away ... That's the kind of game i've played with Jesus in my calling, but i thank Him that instead He began to knock harder, faster and louder that telegraphed His urgency on my behalf ... His urgency clicked into my spirit that i was about to blow it big time, that i through my obstinance was about to place myself in the position of never coming to a full realization of His ultimate purpose for me life, and that really scared me because i knew that i wasn't there yet, and i knew that i'd never realize true joy in my life without realization of such purpose, so i ended my spiritual game of hide and go seek with the Master, and swung open my door, praying to never shut it again ...i've never been one to question anothers salvation, but i think that if one claims to be a Christian, and for whatever the reason can continue to live in carnality, and never suffers any rebuke or chastening from Christ, or never hears His knock at thier hearts, or never suffers any depression at their knowing their causing of the indwealt Holy Spirit's grief, then maybe that one should check as to whether they're really saved or not ... To any one claiming salvation who's decided to re-take their life after the fact you might find Christ's persistent knocking to be annoying, but i'm here to tell you there's something far worse you should be considering and that's His ceasing to knock ... If Christ is banging hard on the door of your flinted heart, trust me He's attempting to telegraph His warning to you, because He knows you're home ... You don't want to take the chance of His ceasing and leaving a big sign on your door that says, REPROBATE" ...One of the meanings for "reprobate" is "refusing to accept" ... in this case "refusing to open" ...Soooooo ....2Cor.13[5] Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?Rom.1[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.