And what about John 13:1-20

I read Hezwelling's post on the on the head covering thread and went to the passages about foot washing. I do not know if the brother was serious about a foot washing movement. But the more I look at these passages the more I see they have merit.

For one thing we have the Son of God himself stating we should wash one another's feet (Jn13:14). Jesus said he left an example for us to follow (Jn 13:15). He also said a servant is not above his master (Jn 13:16). And we would be blessed if we did them (Jn 13:17).

Now I am wondering if we believers are not missing something here. Some are saying it takex courage to wear the head covering. That may be true. But how about washing someone's stinky feet. Not only does that take courage but humility and a blow to our pride.

Is foot washing something we should return to? Do any churches practice this? I am beginning to think this is something we should look at. Simply because Jesus did it.

Some thoughts from the bear den.

Bearmaster.

Hi Papa. Brother first may God bring healing to your athletes foot. I do agree if this practice of foot washing were done in an attitude of Spirit filled humility, the pride and arrogance of our flesh would be broken. For it seems the Son of God himself is showing that he came not to be served but to serve.

In John 12-1-8, Martha's sister Mary, is already practicing foot washing before Jesus gave the example in John 13. Niece there is profound truth to be explored here.

Bearmaster.

My dear brothers Blaine and PP,

beloved, I was and am VERY VERY serious about what I wrote in the 'headcovering' post regarding footwashing, as modeled by the Lord Jesus Christ.

and I bless God Blaine, that you picked up on that, as I was grieved to the CORE, to my heart, to see that there is a headcovering "movement". I have nothing against any dear sister that desires to cover her head, but I am utterly mystified why headcovering would be the focal point of any "movement", OVER what should be close to an "ordinance", that is the washing of the saints feet.

I was blessed JUST ONCE, to be able to introduce this, into a house meeting, and I am here to tell you, human words cannot express what went on in that meeting, during the washing of feet.

my brother and his family were headed off into the 10/40 to "tent make" mission.....and 5 days before the Lord's Day, we were praying together, and just being together, and the Holy Spirit, put it in my heart, and I asked him, if I could do that during our house meeting....IF God the Holy Spirit led me..DURING the meeting, as I didn't want it to happen in the flesh....as if we had to "cook" it all up....God HAD to be in it...otherwise forget it!

If God isn't in it....AWAY with it!....so he said, "yes!! of course, Praise Him" (oh this is a precious brother of mine).....(I've told this story before) I first called the "pastor" of this house Church, to tell him, what my brother and I had discussed...in total. but he didn't let me get to the part of being given Release by the Holy Spirit DURING the meeting, he told me he was going to "do a teaching" about footwashing.

this news GRIEVED both my brother and I, because even though we loved this pastor, and he is a dear man of God, loves Jesus, loves the saints...in many ways, it was because of his actions, we meeting in this house.

the "board" of the physical church building had the devil get up in them, and they threw this pastor OUT of the physical church building. the saints that went with him, just wanted to worship the Lord in truth and peace. the pastor though, after many meetings of this body of followers, decided to take the "board" to "secular" court...to sue them.

most of us were opposed to this. This wasn't even my "home" church, which was 30 miles. I was with this Work, because of their Thursday evening intercessory prayer meeting, which was ALSO in the house church...you see, both the "physical building" and the house church were a mile from where I lived, which was a very "new age-y" exurban rural canyon outside Los Angeles....and the Church I was mentored and reared up in, was 30 miles away.

the pastor who sued this "church board" and headed up this new house church was NOT my mentor. He was a dear brother, and he was open to the Thursday intercessory prayer meetings that my soon to departing brother and I had formed in the Lord's Leading....and NOW he wanted to "do a teaching" on foot washing, before we actually washed feet.

He didn't even wait for me to reason with him, that I wasn't EVEN sure the Spirit would give me leave. Of course, I bought the 'implements', which was a large black plastic paint tray, two large plastic pitchers for the warm water, 4 jars of liquid soap, lavender, and a dozen new cotton towels.

long story short, a 100 ton boulder fell onto the only road headed into the canyon, preventing the pastor from giving this "teaching", my brother and I asked Jesus to Pastor the meeting, which swept onto Victory, many heart testimonies, prayers, Scripture readings, Songs of Praise delievered from memory...people weeping, people praising God...Jesus pastored this meeting, there was no disorder....then the Spirit spoke unto my heart, I turned to my brother, and asked him if I could wash his feet, he nodded, and we began...there were 25 of us.....and it was Heavenly...there were no words spoken, It was the Holy Spirit Who told us that men wash men's feet and women wash women's feet...It was the Holy Spirit who told us who to wash next...it was the Holy Spirit who engendered much weeping at this act of humility and Grace.

I cant fully describe it all in human words, except to say God was in it.

as far as this "law suit" was concerned?.....it was a disaster. The "church board", fleshlings all....just LOVED IT.....gave them something to do...it destroyed the pastor's ministry...all of the pagans, and new agers and satan worshippers in this canyon, they also loved it....in short, it was a terrible witness....and to this day, that "church building" still stands as a mute witness to the dark heart of man. God have mercy on that "board"....my brother just returned stateside, Praise God, andi talked with the pastor recently...he faithfully attends a Bible believeing Church, and loves Jesus...he just stumbled, I love him, I always will, but when a Work appears to be going on the rocks of error?...I leave.

that's why that thread about "head covering" grieves me so, as its APPEARS to tied to a new Work...and if I am Led by the Spirit, that something isn't RIGHT IN Christ Jesus...I walk away....I RUN away, because I am not unaware of the schemes of the devil to TRY and divide the Body.

Would to God, we do away with clerical abuse, we do away with man centered liturgy, stale and moldy.....why NOT make foot washing a Spirit Led ordinance?.....instead of tearing at one another over what somebody wears on their head.

God bless you Blaine and PP...isn't Jesus Wonderful?...He's so Lovely and Beautiful...God willing, I would wash both your feet....anyday, as I pray right now, that He bless both your hearts, richly, neil

Brother a beautiful testimony. It is said in the gospel accounts when Mary washed the feet of Jesus the whole fragrance of the perfume filled the room.

I imagine when saints wash another's feet, the humility and brokeness of one's heart in this practice allows the fragrance of Christ to be manifested.

Brother, likewise, I would gladly wash your feet. I am sure PP would to.

Blaine aka Bearmaster.

Like head coverings, I think foot washing was cultural. What would be the equivalent to foot washing in our culture? allaboard

Hope this doesn't seem like I am following you around but at risk of someone saying it here goes.

In answer to your question above. I have no idea really. What I do know is that foot washing like so may outward things is intensely personal and amounts to an invasion of ones bodily privacy if it is undertaken with thoughtlessness. Blaine asked about sisters who would wash smelly feet. Well my lovely wife Helen hates feet with a passion. When we first met I was involved in ministering to the practical needs of homeless men in a night shelter. I somewhat thoughtlessly expected her to come along and participate. All I can say is that she did and survived. For myself I found something about the act of washing someones feet really very humbling. I sensed that those men had to humble themselves to my hands in order to receive the benefit of having their feet relieved of the dirt of the road and the pain of never finding rest. Something about their needing to humble themselves proved more of a blessing than one could easily imagine. Although they almost always resisted the idea at first I used to point out the practical benefit to them. If you had seen their faces afterwards when the slow release of weeks of muscle pain and filth were gently removed you would understand just how personal and intimate an act it is. On that basis they heard about Christ. First the feet then the faith.

On the other hand to have someone force it on you as a type of religious imperative, is really an abuse and a false sense of what the Lord intended when He told Peter to submit or else have no part in Him. It is as always either religiosity or else understanding how to serve others well which lies at the heart of it. Apart from that the cultural practise of foot washing may have as much to do with dirty feet as it has to do with clean floors. Go with the intention of bearing witness of Christ, but wash the feet first and don't neglect the intention.

Brother I am not so sure I can dismiss footwashing as cultural as I once did. As I read through John 13:1-20. we ser the example of the Son of God himself washing the feet of the disciples. And one of those would betray him.

Jesus tells his disciples that I have left you an example that you should follow. Even is we dismiss the practice as first century cultural. Can we neglect the example of the Son of man who said he came to serve? Should this not be the Spirit-filled attitude of our hearts.

You read out of the Gospel Fellowship guide that our conversation should be on Jesus and not outward practices of head coverings and even footwashing. But if foot washing were done in the Spirit. My goodness, I can think of no other practice that would put Jesus more at the focus then this practice of humility. The practice to wash someone else's feet. Perhaps even the feet of your enemy.

As usual my thoughts still being walked out on this.

Bearmaster.

Brother agree. I am emphasing that the act of foot washing, as well as any act of serving, must be done in the power of the Spirit. For Jesus said that apart from him we can do nothing. Any less than tbis is dead religion.

May God bless you as you minister to homeless men. For surely this is what the Savior himself would do.

Bearmaster.

maybe I wasn't being concise enough, or describing WHAT happened in that 81 year old widows house...or maybe a cyber platform is totally inadequate a platform to discuss and reason about the Deep Things of God, because you wrote:

Washing the feet of someone in a church meeting just seems to me as a pompous religious act that is not meeting a real need, but makes us feel we are 'spiritual'.

the washing of feet in that house meeting back in 2004, was the not the focus point of a "church meeting"...and since the only sound one heard among the 25 people crowded into that house while saints had their feet washed was of weeping. which in my estimation hardly qualifies it as a "pompous religious act".

weeping. That's all you heard.

Its a VERY INTIMATE act....you feel VERY vulnerable, which is why it was the Holy Spirit that told us ALL, that men would wash men's feet, and women would wash women's feet.

I did not give that directive....Nobody HAD TO, as Jesus was the Pastor of that meeting, and the Holy Ghost was leading....that's why I was saying, human words are almost inadequate to describe what went on DURING that meeting.

it was the MEETING itself, that was VERY different....I and my brother "R" had been praying and talking about this, our frustration over the "by the numbers" ecclesiology of "doing church".

I told him, God had given me a different vision, where the wall between "clergy" and "laity" was demolished. Its all very Scriptural, i'll give you all the Passage in a bit....but my heart was this:

Everybody WANTS to be heard in life.....and everybody IS IMPORTANT in God's Heart...all of us are, He loves us all with a Passion and Intensity, but there is only One made Perfect, ....Jesus, sinless, spotless, without blemish.

THE Perfect Pastor.

I had appropriated that Concept from the Moravians at Hernnhutt. I don't have time to go over Church history, but they were the ones that left the "Empty Chair", when they "elected" Jesus to head their Church....during the 100 year long prayer meeting.

Then I had studied with fascination something the Quakers do called "Worship Sharing"....and I started to pray and think about this....as I read it, they gather and as the Spirit leads, one can share a Passage of Scripture, a testimony, a prayer request, a song....however the Spirit leads a saint...there's only three guidelines or "rules", first, only ONE person can speak at a time, second, put a healthy pause between each share...weigh and consider prayerfully IF God the Holy Ghost wants you to speak next. and third, everyone must have a chance to speak once, before you speak a second time.

I kept thinking and praying about this. The familiar way of "doing church" even then seemed to me so "pro forma".....even to the point that leadership would put God into a time box...the bulletin handed out at the door.......from 10:00 AM to 10:15 AM -greeting period. 10:15-10:55 "Worship"...followed by a list of songs 10:55-11:00 Offerings....then part 2 of a 4 part "series" entitled "The Romans Road", by Pastor Earnest...oh yes, and that is from 11:00-11:27.

it was then my dear brother "R" had told me, that God was pulling them into the mission field...and it was God the Holy Spirit that told me, to wash his feet. I conferred with my dear brother....he was of one mind with me.

I was going to miss him and his wife and the kids terribly....then I told Pastor "B", who decided he wanted to "do a teaching" on footwashing.....and that just broke both our hearts....because had been sharing what the Lord was laying on my heart about worship sharing....tearing down that wall between clergy and laity...a NEW..OLD "Way" of Church:

"What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace."
1 Cor 14:26-33

when it became apparent the 100 ton boulder had stopped Pastor B from coming to this house meeting, I roseto my feet, and gave an outline of what I just told you regarding worship sharing....everyone was excited, I asked if we would all be of one accord, if I implored Jesus to Pastor this meeting, and gave utterance to this Pressing Need.

the Very Atmosphere in that humble home changed. His Presence was Wonderful....there was NO disorder, many testimonies were given, Precious Passages of Scripture read, worship songs from heart memory were sung, hands were laid on saints asking for prayer or healing....It was ALL so close to Heaven...I couldn't even stay off my face....I think this meeting went on for three hours, then I heard the Spirit say, "ask him"...I had been weeping and dying to self, wiped off my face, looked up at my brother, and asked if I could wash his feet.

as I detailed, this was all done wordlessly...if somebody didn't want their feet washed.....they KNEW it was okay to beg off.

I DIDNT want my feet washed, but only because of my FEAR, which I prayed away, and left myself open to the ministrations of my brothers and sisters....the last brother to have his feet washed was a dear brother who was quite a servant during the hour of footwashing...he just BROKE OPEN in tears....we all were crying....then it was Joy....nobody called the meeting to close....we JUST KNEW that part was over, then we gathered for an agape love feast....evertybody had brought food, and for the next 3 and a half hours, we all ate together.

NOBODY WANTED to leave....we were there from 10 AM to about 6:30 in the evening...it was an 8 and an half hour long meeting...and NOBODY looked at that clock.

so, do you really believe that a "pompous religious act " was at the center of what happened that beautiful day, I will never forget and long to live again?

can you really say that brother?

Brothers and sisters I am not advocating a foot washing movement though I guess there is some comic relief in that statement :). But whether we look at the act itself or the motive behind the act the implication is the same. The Son of mam came not to be served but to serve. And that is what is being taught. To serve one another.

I opened up this thread as a balance to the head covering thread to get to the heart of the matter. That being we serve one another. And doing so out of Spirit filled hearts of humility and love. For Jesus did say we would be blessed if we do these things. Not necessarily the actual act itself, but serving one another out of Christ centered hearts.

Bearmaster.