Problems in my Church

I need some wisdom.

I feel like the church that I attend has forgotten the Gospel. From studying the Word and reading up on Church history, especially recent history (past 200 or so years), I have come to the conclusion that we are really far off base from what Christianity is supposed to be like (I am speaking only concerning the church I attend). I believe that the version of the Gospel we are preaching is a "Jesus came to fix your life and make it good" gospel and not a "You have no life apart from the work of Christ" Gospel. Ex) My pastor often says that we go through trials with our marriages, finances, children, coworkers, etc; and Christ came to fix those things. And whenever he gives an invitation at the end, everyone closes there eyes and bows their heads, so as not to intimidate any unbelievers. I vary between wanting to be bold and proclaim the truth or saying to myself "I've got to let God handle this, because I cannot change the hearts of men." I think, "Who am I to go tell my pastor that I think he's wrong about this." And as a teacher at my church (which I don't even think I am qualified for that position), I teach those things that I read in scripture, but often get stonewalled with "That is your interpretation of what the Bible says." And when I quote scripture during times when I choose to stand my ground (during a business meeting or whatnot), no one even knows what I am talking about and they brush it off. I could pretend to quote scripture and make something up and only 3 or 4 people at best would know that I am not quoting the actual Word (that's a guess, I never actually did that). I don't think that I know everything, but there are some issues in my church that are crystal clear in scripture.

These aren't dissenters or wicked people that I am dealing with. These are my brothers and sisters. What do I do?

I am praying about it and I will continue to do so, even if that is all I can do for now. I believe that no change will ever come if I roll up in there and tell everyone off. I love these guys and I want the best for them, but I also want the gimmick-free truth. Any advice/correction/prayers will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all!

Just for future reference, I am a Brother...lol

Soul,

I ain't arguing. I often think that is exactly what I ought to do but then I think about how Paul never commanded Timothy or any other men in his Epistles to just accept that there will be problems. Yes, I need to keep my eyes on Jesus, but wouldn't it be just as wicked and rebellious for me to do nothing and mask it with supposedly Christ-like passivity? I tend to think so. On that same token, I don't think I am called to make a whip and turn over tables on something like this. But what I could use from everyone is some prayer for wisdom. I have been praying my guts out (as far as I know how, at least) about this. However, I would lay down everything I think about how I should act if Christ wants me to be passive.

What you may be facing is a situation where you are looking at the church in a different angle than that of a Pastor. Teachers are really hard line on scriptural accuracy where as Pastors who are not bent toward teaching are more bent toward building and developing character, nothing instant. Even though we know Jesus can do things very instantly often times He does not. So your Pastors ministry will be geared way differently than yours. You may want to feed him good books to read along with some of the pdf files you can find here. The function of the church has from the beginning been to mature the converts of Christ while the individual believers were to take the good news out to the highways and by ways...that is if we are to use the bible as our source of instruction, the "rub" comes in when we start to see more of a social or humanistic gospel at work from the pulpit, than it can gravitate into a works religion...but from what you wrote it does not appear to be the case. Learn to be a patient farmer of truth, always offered in simplicity and never forced on anyone unless some sort of heresy is being embraced.

James says that we can not only ask for wisdom but expect it, and we know that wisdom is the proper application of knowledge. It take wisdom to make knowledge acceptable to the hearer, and often times you are best to just offer a bite here and a bite there instead of the entire meal at 1 sitting.....if you know what I mean, regardless, do not let this be something that is used to steal your peace which can harm the joy of the Lord in you. Lastly...remember that Salvation is the whole man which means all of our lives which includes our marriages, families jobs etc...The Lord is interested in all of it.

Joh_7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

hello sister soulwon, we got to look at the whole scripture to really understand what Jesus is saying.
Lets take a look.

"Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (KJV)

So you are correct that we should not judge others but if you live a life as a hypocrite. So you do as Mat 7:5 says, to cast your beam out first then go to your brother's eye and judge righteously. I put it this way, we all know as Christians that no one is righteous but God. So judging righteously is not of my opinion but of The Word Of God who is the only righteous and holy. We use the Word of God to judge as He is the judge of the world. The same is when we check scripture if the teacher is teaching sound doctrine.

God Bless you sister soulwon and may god continue to use us as intruments to reach those who are seeking hope.

David C

Yes we all sometimes need correction and rebuking, it is how we handle the rebuking whether we take it in Love or hate. We all need to handle it with love like you sister Alisa and to grow with each other in Christ. No offence here sister.

God Bless you and your family
DavidC

Hi havok20x!

May I suggest a book - "The Pressure's Off" (Larry Crabb):
http://www.amazon.com/The-Pressures-Off-Breaking-Performance/dp/0307730530

It contrasts the difference of living the Old Way v.s. the New Way. The Old Way is blessing-centered, where we believe that following the right procedures would yield the blessings we desire. Sometimes it can be couched in "Christian" terms - such as having a good family, better character, etc... and we feel the pressure to get things right so that we get the blessings we desire. These desires are not bad (which is why they are blessings), but they should be desires secondary to God.

The New Way is brokered by the New Covenant, and is God-centered. He does not promise specific blessings, but He promises Himself. God is good - but that does not mean He acts on our terms. He is always with us, and the source of living water who fulfills our deepest desires.

The book's been recommended a few times on this forum. I took up the recommendation and found it a real blessing.

I do not think that these two things are in opposition to one another. If the Gospel is not presented accurately, then you end up with people who come to Christ on some basis other than 1) Knowing that their hearts are deceitfully wicked and desperately sick; 2) That God is holy, perfect, and righteous and that He Himself will judge them as guilty because of their rebellion; 3)Christ came, because of God's great love for us and suffered the wrath of God as a propitation for our sins in order that God may be the justifier by grace of those men who come to Christ through faith and was resurrected so that we might have hope for eternal life; 4)That God will continue and complete the work that He started in believers through the powerful, transformative ability of the Holy Spirit. And then you end up with some believers who are truly born again and then you end up with a bunch of unsaved people motivated by selfish ambition to get something out of God for this life (not to mention a free ticket to heaven).

If you are TRULY being accurate with the scriptures, then believers really WILL experience Christ the way that a believer ought to.

However, the idea that an "experience" with Christ somehow supplants scriptural accuracy and obedience to that which is out and out commanded by God is a dangerous road to walk. You don't have a bunch of people who need to experience Christ before they can endure the Word of the Lord. You have a bunch of people who can't become alive until they hear the word of the Lord so that they will know that they are actually experiencing Christ. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

I deal with this ALL the time in the class that I teach. I will present something (this is to believers now, not the lost) and rather than reasoning with the scriptures and rather than digging into the Word to see if what I am saying is actually true, they will argue against what I am saying based on what they and others have experienced. That is a foundation of shifting sand at best. Brothers and Sisters, it is important to experience Christ, because we cannot study our way into Salvation; however if we, who are presenting the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is able bring salvation to our hearers, do not present it with Biblical Accuracy, then can what we say be called truth? And if it is necessary to present it accurately to a lost person, who has no life, how much more should we, as believers, give ourselves over to the study and understanding of the things of God? I want to experience Jesus Christ every day, but Jesus never said eternal life was purely experiential and how can I possibly know if my "experience" with Christ is even real? Jesus said "THIS is eternal life, that they KNOW you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." And what did Paul say, except "Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of KNOWING Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ" Was this some secret, hidden knowledge that can only be gained by experience? No. It is experience rooted in the bedrock of His Word. We are sanctified by truth, not experience. His word is truth.