How do you explain these verses?

sermonindex Jun 26, 2013

James 2:14-26
What use is it, my brethren, is someone says he has faith, but has no works. Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works, show me your faith without the works and I will show my faith by my works.". You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the alter. You see that faith was working with his works and as a result of the works faith was perfected and the scripture was fulfilled that said "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she recieved the messengers and sent them out by another way? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without the spirit is dead.

Forum does anybody have the courage to adddress the above verses? You may ignore them. But you cannot deny them. To deny them is to deny the truth of God's word. And like it or not, James is part of the New Testament.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Jun 26, 2013

I believe this is very important.

Our Lord said we are justified by our words. If we "confess" Jesus Christ we will be saved. So there must be a verbal proclamation and sharing of His Name to others.

James says that we need to have works with our faith. Ephesians says we will walk in works that God has fore-ordained after being saved by faith.

We are saved (past-tense) by the Blood of Christ.

We are being-saved (present tense) by the life of Christ in us which leads us into conformity to the Son and walking in good works.

We will be saved (future tense) from the wrath to come by Jesus Christ when He comes again to gather His elect.

If our lives are not changing into the image of the Son we cannot declare ourselves saved. No matter how good of a profession or even experience we had. God's people are holy people, meaning they will be more and more set apart for His purposes and works if they are truly His.

I am sure other brethren will add much more meaningful words to this thread. Thank you brother for bringing this up.

sermonindex Jun 26, 2013

Greg thank you for your thhoughtful reply. Indeed I hope there will be some fruitful discussion as these verses must be considered in our fath walk with Christ.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Jun 26, 2013

My brother has rightly identified the works examples that James gave. To often we liken works to helping an old lady across the street like a good boy scout ( although I would encourage such help) when in actual fact, the works that James is referring to is death to self. Here in James' example number one of works, we see Abraham, at the word of God, willing to take his son and sacrifice him. Now what was Abraham's son to him? Issac was all of Abraham's hope and dreams and ambitions. He had waited a long time to see these hopes birthed, and birthed by God's promise and all of those promises resided in Issac, yet here was the same God asking him to kill all of his hopes and dreams. Please brothers and sisters, do not imagine that Abraham skipped up that hill, there was a price for Abraham's obedience and that price was his flesh.

Rahab, a Jericho inhabitant , undoubtedly heard the voice of God. And what did she do? She put everything on the line to help the spies. Not only her own life, but the life's of all of her family by helping the spies. This is the works, to do the will of God. To die to your own flesh and to follow His word and small still voice, no matter the cost. This is trust, this is faith, this is the foundation of our walk with God, without it, we are not worthy to be His disciples...............bro Frank

sermonindex Jun 26, 2013

John 6:28-19; "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Eph. 2:10; "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

These good works are the RESULT of believing.

Phil. 2:13; "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

P

passerby Jun 26, 2013

Let me explain it this way and begin with this which I have already written in my previous post:

"But do remember that many great religions also advocates hating sins, develop virtuous character, and moral excellence. and even the humanist and the atheists also teach the same, but we know that they will never attain salvation because of their unbelief and refusal to surrender their lives in Jesus."

And if I may add Good works, but as Christians our faith in the Lord Jesus is the foundation of our good works. Without this fundamental element, it is hard to imagine how we will advance towards christian perfection or maturity. Otherwise, our works may as well be chasing the wind.

Now, as we move towards higher levels of maturity, our faith will show obedience, good works, and godly character
but at the start, we may grope in the dark and express seemingly contradictory attitudes and actions.

For example, a christian who started with strong background about giving and verbatim bible obedience, will give alms without further rationalization to anyone who begs for some money, in obedience to what he read in the new testament. But others who are from the 'enlightened' groups will rationalize hard if they will give money or not, asking if they have permission from the government to ask for alms or if the donation will really benefit the beggar, and so on.

Now, who is right and who is wrong? Well as James 4:11-12 our job is to obey what is there to obey and refrain from maligning one another.

H

havok20x Jun 26, 2013

I saw this recently and I though I would share it:

Here are lines of thought on Faith, works, and Salvation

1) Faith produces salvation.
(Faith = salvation-works)

2) Faith and works produce salvation.
(Faith + works = salvation)

3) Works produce salvation.
(Works = salvation)

4) Faith produces salvation and works.
(Faith = salvation + works)

1 we can identify with easy-believism/cheap-grace/cost-less christianity. It says that faith guarantees salvation no matter how wordly and wicked the person acts. 2 is a form of legalism that says we must maintain works to guarantee salvation. 3 is full blown legalism which states that apart from perfect works there is no guarantee of salvation. 4 is the camp where I reside. True faith guarantees salvation and the evidence thereof--works. One who claims to be a good tree yet does not yield biblical fruit is not a good tree.

sermonindex Jun 27, 2013

I wonder if James had written these verses on SI if he would have been decried as a legalist? Interesting no one is challenging him for being such.

Bearmaster

H

havok20x Jun 27, 2013

That's because everyone likes to cry "Legalist!" whenever holiness is spoken of. Legalism, the true definition of it, is an attempt to earn salvation by works of the law. James did not say "salvation apart from works is dead" he said "faith apart from works is dead." The evidence that we have been truly born again is that we will have faith resulting in salvation and good works, since we are created in Christ Jesus for good works.

sermonindex Jun 27, 2013

Faith/belief produces the "work" of following hard after God.

Faith WORKS by love and produces faithfulness to Jesus Christ.

Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith produces works of Love towards our neighbor and our God.

Faith works!!

Faith in God WORKS by removing all the mountains in our lives.

Faith works by seeking after righteousness.

Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first WORKS; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev_3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy WORKS perfect before God.

Let the Author of your faith, be the Author of your works, and not yourself. Be willing to be led by the Holy Spirit and to be a co-worker

1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

sermonindex Jun 27, 2013

by havok20x on 2013/6/27 5:44:59
That's because everyone likes to cry "Legalist!" whenever holiness is spoken of. Legalism, the true definition of it, is an attempt to earn salvation by works of the law. James did not say "salvation apart from works is dead" he said "faith apart from works is dead." The evidence that we have been truly born again is that we will have faith resulting in salvation and good works, since we are created in Christ Jesus for good works.

Well said!