1 John 1:8-10
If we say we have no sin, we are decieving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word us not in us.
Do the above verses apply to believers or non believers?
Bearmaster.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
American Standard Version. 1995 (1 Jn 1:8–2:2). Logos Research Systems, Inc.
But Andrew do the verses apply to believers or non believers?
Bearmaster
It is a scripture for believers about unbelievers and those who are deceived by their false teachings. It presents a counter argument to what many believed--that they did not have any sin. He rebuttals with the true response of a believer--repentance and confession--and then again with what the world wrongly thinks.
Look at the verses andrew posted--He is writing to us.
If these verses are written for believers then two conclusions are drawn. One. Believers sin. Two. Believers need to confess their sins.
Are the two conclusions correct.
Bearmaster.
yes, John use the pronoun "we", thus he himself is included. This also disprove the idea that this is for "Christian beginners" only.
also: My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2 ASV
Brother this is not hard if we read it in context that he is talking about believers. That we are suppose to walk in the light as He is in the light so that we can be in fellowship with God and the blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse us from all sin.
We are to walk in the light of the Lord to be cleansed from all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ so that we can have fellowship with God.
Continuing in sin breaks our fellowship with God but if we walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship and His blood cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin to be cleansed from then we lie and do not the truth because all have sin to be cleansed from because all have sinned.
Blessings...from brother rbanks
bearmaster wrote:
Are these verses for believers or non believers?
God bless,
Lisa
With all due respect to your question and your conclusion; my question to you is, why is your focus on sin?
The whole new testament is getting the born-again believer to realize that their sins are dealt with and they are indeed new creations and joint-inheritors with the LORD Jesus.
I always wonder why some people always wanting to convince believers that they are sinners.
Why not focus on righteousness & holiness.
It was GOD's idea to call us righteous. And as we behold as in a mirror that image, we are transform into that same image from glory to glory.
Not behold the image that we are sinners and we sin.
No offense intended, just my thought based on the understanding i have so far.
pq*
"We must not wrest this verse out of the context of the book and the chapter in which it is written if we want to understand John. 1John was written to counteract the heresy which was affecting the church (and still is) and was a treatise for Christians in general as there is no mention of a specific church as was contended by Lampe in his appeal to Theodoret.
The Latin version said "Epistle to the Pathians, adopted by Ancient Fathers defended by Grotius" but not in Greek, but at least the Syriac language of the Parthian Empire was understood by Christian’s unaquainted with Greek. Whoton conjectures on Greek superscription (to virgins) because the epistle is addressed to 'uncorrupted' Christians. Frequent usage of light and darkness occurs in Persian philosophy so John is correcting the abuses of it. That John really designed his epistle as a warning to those Christians who were in danger of being affected by Zoroastrian principles is very probable though the language of the epistle will not permit us to place John's readers in a country to the East of Euphrates.
The apostle is declaring to the whole world, his disapprobation of the doctrines maintained by Cerinthus and the Gnostics. Cerinthus taught that Jesus was by birth a mere man but that 'the Christ' descended on Him at His baptism. In order to understand the epistle we must ask ourselves the following questions, Why did John give these admonitions? Why did he repeat them frequently? Why has he admonished if he thought admonition necessary, merely in general terms and brotherly love? Why has he not sometimes descended into particulars as other apostles have done? It was the Gnostics, who taught that man could be righteous in spirit and still sin in the flesh" (Anon)
It is nowadays recognised by 'imputed righteousness'. The basis of this error i.e. that a believer can still be in Christ and sin was made popular and spread by Augustine who has spread his heresies throughout the Protestant and Catholic Church since.
So John is saying that it is only when we are walking in the darkness that we are blind to our need of coming to Christ for His cleansing from ALL sin. The letter is to believers and not un-believers as stated previously. And believers can fall into the error of walking in the flesh as Paul demonstrated to the Galatians who thought that they could go on to maturity or perfection through the works of the law and not through faith.
Those who were being misled by the Gnosticism and today by the preachers of 'positional righteousness' were walking in darkness because they were still sinning and did not see their need of the cleansing which can be provided by Christ alone. So they thought that they had no sin nature to be dealt with and were acceptable as they were, but John says that they walk in darkness. But if we see our need for cleansing from ALL sin and come to Christ (again) for forgiveness, then He will be able to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. So it is these ones who are saying wrongly that they have no sin not the ones who have come to Christ and HAVE been cleansed from ALL unrighteousness.
John goes on in the rest of his epistle to show that those who do carry on in sin (but say they have no further need of cleansing) are NOT in CHRIST. He stresses his point against the Gnostic heresy [b]Little children let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous even as He is righteous
You still trying to pin the hyper-grace folks:-)Its to believers of course, unbelievers wouldn't read the word.Do the above verses apply to believers or non believers?
In my understanding of this verse there is a line that makes it more clearer what he was saying. in verse 5 it says this:
[b]This then is the message[/b] which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
When I read verse 8-10 I read it in the context of that line, that this then is the message.
I do not believe it is written as a directive for Christian living but a breakdown of the message of Christ in its entirety.
Thats the answer to your question.
There is no such thing as sins anymore after the cross, there is still one sin, however, which so easily entangles, that we do have to repent of and that is unbelief.John 16:9 And its the one sin that kept the Israelites out of the promised land.
Every other sin that we may manifest has its root in the fact that we do not believe in Jesus Christ. That we are no longer under law but grace, that the written requirements of the law have been taken away. That the law and by implication sin, no longer has dominion over me. That I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
Can you see now why Jesus is so wonderful, God is not counting my sins against me any more, ever.
He justs ask me to believe. But, he can do nothing with people who refuse to.
1 John 1:8 refers to Believers. John is not writing the letter to unbelievers but to the Church and saintsts. Also 1 John 2:1 is also written to Believers - My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin.
Many find this contradicting because on one hand John is saying that we cannot say that we have no sin and on the other hand he is saying that we should not sin. He is also saying further that we must walk like Jesus who was perfect sinless.
The only logical explanation to these verses is this - there are 2 kinds of Sin, Conscious sin and unconscious sin. We have to overcome all the Sins that we are aware of in our life (Conscious sins). For example if I am aware that shouting in Anger against my wife is a sin then I should by God's grace overcome this sin. But that does not make me sinless perfect.
Because tomorrow God might reveal me that entertaining a thought of Anger itself is a Sin. Now I have to seek God's grace to overcome this sin.
Christian life is progressive, the more God shows us the more we start walking in this light.
We always need the blood of Jesus for forgiveness of unconscious sins. We always need God's grace to overcome the conscious sins. God's Grace (power of Holy Spirit) is equally important to Blood of Jesus. We cannot hold one and leave other. Sadly for many Christians Gospel begins and stops with Blood of Jesus.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Who is he that believeth?
1 John 5:10-12 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
You either have the Son of God or you do not have the Son of God. Why?
1 John 5:12-13 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Thereby having the Son and life.
1 John 5:18-20 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
"Sinneth Not"? How is that possible? The Spirit of Christ in me cannot sin.
Now we can understand 1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Who sins? Not the Christ that is born of God and is in me. I sin and when I do and confess my sin, why is God faithful and just to forgive me my sin? The Blood of Christ takes away my sin, that is why God is faithful and just to forgive and to cleanse from all unrighteousness. It is all of Jesus Christ and what He finished on the Cross.
This is why the Word of God divides the spirit and soul and body, that my spirit is perfect and cannot sin for it is the Spirit of Christ birthed in me. My soul/mind can still sin, that is why God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness, which comes by my confession of my soul/mind sins, which become less and less daily as the continual cleansing, justly comes and forgives. The body is only quickened to contain the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit that I may learn Christ by His Mind that is in me, the body still has to die from the sin of Adam and the curse of God in the Garden; "you shall surly die".
To finish; who was John speaking to and revealing to what he spoke to, heard speak, touched and looked upon? "To shew unto you that eternal life is in the Son.
1 John 1:1-2 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
I was lost in sin, I am forgiven in sin, but I am going on into perfection; Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
In Christ: sinless by He that is in me and forgiven of sin by John's testimony "If we confess".
Brothers and sisters I hold these verses in 1 John are for believers. The New Testament admonishes us to a walk of practical holy obedience to Christ. Yet there will be those times on a daily basis that we will fall and sin. These verses are a blessed promise that if we are convicted by the Spirit of our sins. Jesus will forgive us and purify us.
This is not a one time act as some maintain. But the process of confession of sins and purifying by Christ is an ongoing daily obedience before Christ. Indeed what did Jesus mean when he said "forgive us our transgressionsas we forgive others". Because we are in a holy struggle of daily crucifying the deeds if the flesh. There will be those times we will sin. It is a given. But it is also a given that there is forgiveness and cleansing as we confess and repent if our sins under the direction of the Holy Spirit.
Some will deny this. Those in the hyper grace camp maintain believers need not confess sin. Everything is under the blood. Others will deny this because they have reached a state of sinless perfection or complete sanctification where they are not impacted by sin. Both of these views are not supported by the New Testament. And those who are in these camps are in danger if distorting the scriptures to their own destruction.
We are called to a life of practical obedient holy living before Christ. The Spirit filled believer will desire to be holy as unto Christ. But there will be times the believer will slip and fall. But Praise God for the beautiful promise that he will forgive and cleans those who in humility confess their sins before Jesus.
Bearmaster.
Jesus said if ye continue in my word then are ye my disciples indeed and ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.
Jesus wants us to be made free from sin.
Experiencing the truth about the finished work of Jesus by the cross is the only way we can be made free through the grace of God.
All epistles were written to the Church. Not to the former Jews or former Gentiles in the Church but to all "New Creations".
There is no longer Jew or Gentile, but one new man.
The epistles are written to "new men", in Christ.
Whether it is Hebrews or Galatians or 1 John, all letters are for the whole Church.
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