Understanding Revelation.

I think you are being a bit hard on those that debate lively.

You seem to imply one cannot discuss the scriptures without having lost their salvation.

Are you not aware that this is a discussion forum?

"Revelation is to be understood as the spiritual war fare that will take place for those who follow the holiness path.
"

Not So! Revelation is to be understood as "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show to his servants things which must shortly come to pass." Rev. 1:1

"The greatest clue to the interpretation is that the kingdom is about to come. That what was revealed to John was at hand."

This is so! The greatest clue to the interpretation is that it is both historical and prophetic.

Rev. 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

It was prophetic to the persons to whom John wrote, and historical to us who read it today.

For I testify together with everyone hearing the Words of the prophecy of this Book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add upon him the plagues having been written in this Book. And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and of the things having been written in this Book. The One testifying these things says, Yes, I am coming quickly. Amen. Yes, come, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all the saints. Amen. Rev. 22:18-21

RE: ////The kingdom is not the physical one that the Jews desired, it is spiritual and comes to each and every man once he is baptised into Christ. Spirit baptism that proceeds regeneration unless a man closes his heart to the desire placed there by the Lord for a clean heart.
Revelation is to be understood as the spiritual war fare that will take place for those who follow the holiness path////

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

We must becareful as not to Underestimate the depth of the Scriptures.

Fundamentalism is as bad as any other, in suppressing the depth of Scripture by their refusal to interput Scripture from any perspective other than that of their indoctrinated perspective of what they deem as literal.

But we must also becareful as not to throw out the baby with the bath water.

When reading books like Exodus, We relieze how much was recorded for us metaphorically.

The fundamentalist will often read a book such as Exodus, believe it as a historicaly literal event, and even derive practical principles from it.
but often times many whom do this, seem to be unable to see the spiritual metaphors contained with in.

So I can understand your point about interpretation of Revelation.

But the things recorded in a book such as Exodus, are not just fiction stories with metaphorical meanings, They where indeed literal events that took place in the physical realm.

With a book such as Exodus, we are given the literal, physical events, and by having Faith in those events, the doors are opened to us to start to understand the spiritual metaphors contained with in the book.

But in contrast, 'to a literal meaning being given to us, and us deriveing the metaphorical meanings from the book,' as with a book such as Exodus.

Revelations gives us the metaphorical pictures, and we need to derive both the Spirtual realities as well as the physical realities from the book.

With the Bible, unlike other books the metaphorical spiritual realities do not negate the physical realities.

The spirtual war that we are in, includes obstacles that are and will be faced in the physical realm, So when reading and understanding a book such as Revelations, I believe that we also need to be mindful of physical events that will take place in the natural realm as well as the spiritual realities.

I would say some of Revelation is literal and can be read plainly while other parts are symbolic and you can use the bible to interpret it, but there are parts of revelation that won't be understood until the right time.

Armkelly has brought light upon the issue.

We must be careful not to fall into the snare of the devil. An eschatology that denies the actual COMING hope is heretical, and aligns with those who fought against the apostles: the Gnostics.

If anyone denies that Jesus will come back IN THE SAME WAY that He left (bodily), and denies the hope of the resurrection of the body (that is, heavenly, glorified bodies), AND makes everything mystical, then that person has denied the Christian faith.

(see Acts 1:11, 2 John 1:7, 1 John 4:2-3, Matthew 22:29-32, 1 Corinthians 15:35-40)

Yes, there is a sense in which we are already raised with Christ (Ephesians 2:6), but that is supposed to give us the assurance of things to come!

There is an "ALREADY", and there is a "NOT YET".

In Christ,
Renoncer

These are the fundamentals of the Christian faith, as passed down by the Lord Jesus Christ through the apostles, and espoused by the Early Church:

"[We believe] in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [future] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to gather all things in one” and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, “every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess” to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send “spiritual wickedness,” and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning [of their Christian course], and others from [the date of] their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory."

"[Believing] in one God, the Creator of heaven and earth, and all things therein, by means of Christ Jesus, the Son of God; who, because of His surpassing love towards His creation, condescended to be born of the virgin, He Himself uniting a man through Himself to God, and having suffered under Pontius Pilate, and rising again, and having been received up in splendour shall come in glory, the Saviour of those who are saved, and the Judge of those who are judged, and sending into eternal fire those who transform the truth, and despise His Father and His advent."

(Irenaeus, c.130-202 A.D.)

"[The rule of faith] is, you must know, that which prescribes the belief that there is one only God, and that He is none other than the Creator of the world, who produced all things out of nothing through His own Word, first of all sent forth; that this Word is called His Son, and, under the name God, was seen “in diverse manners” by the patriarchs, heard at all times in the prophets, at last brought down by the Spirit and Power of the Father into the Virgin Mary, was made flesh in her womb, and, being born of her, went forth as Jesus Christ; thenceforth He preached the new law and the new promise of the kingdom of heaven, worked miracles; having been crucified, He rose again the third day; (then) having ascended into the heavens, He sat at the right hand of the Father; sent instead of Himself the Power of the Holy Ghost to lead such as believe; will come with glory to take the saints to the enjoyment of everlasting life and of the heavenly promises, and to condemn the wicked to everlasting fire, after the resurrection of both these classes shall have happened, together with the restoration of their flesh."

(Tertullian, c.160-220 A.D.)

In Christ,
Renoncer

Quote savanna;

"Revelation is to be understood as the spiritual war fare that will take place for those who follow the holiness path.
"

Not So! Revelation is to be understood as "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show to his servants things which must shortly come to pass." Rev. 1:1

"The greatest clue to the interpretation is that the kingdom is about to come. That what was revealed to John was at hand."

This is so! The greatest clue to the interpretation is that it is both historical and prophetic.

Rev. 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

It was prophetic to the persons to whom John wrote, and historical to us who read it today.

For I testify together with everyone hearing the Words of the prophecy of this Book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add upon him the plagues having been written in this Book. And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and of the things having been written in this Book. The One testifying these things says, Yes, I am coming quickly. Amen. Yes, come, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all the saints. Amen. Rev. 22:18-21

What a beautiful post

The book of Revelation is the account of a vision given to John by Jesus Christ concerning things to come. John describes what he saw and related it.

The text will instruct the reader how it is to be understood. One cannot read it once, four, five times and expect to understand it all. I have studied it in Bible School, read it many times since and still do not quite know how all these events will play out in life but that is irrelevant. God is in charge AND that is relevant. In understanding the book one must allow the Scriptures to interpret itself. To suggest that it is all spiritual, has no literal meanings means that its interpretation is best left to a few skilled scholars and thus will intimidate the average reader. THIS is a ploy from the devil working to destroy people's interest in the book and not read it. Jesus says "Blessed is he who reads it.." If the devil can intimidate people with the book, he has succeeded in robbing people of a rich blessing.

Spiritualizing scripture when its literal meanings do not mesh with my philosophy/understanding is dangerous, opens one up to deception on every level. And this includes the book of Revelation.

I do not understand it all but I love to read it. It ranks as my favorite NT book! To debate this and that robs it of its glory! When I read it I can see in my spirit what John saw and I see beauty, glory! I see the mercy of God acted out in working to draw all men to himself by inflicting calamities of unparalleled proportions solely with the idea of getting man to repent. And if they refuse, too bad! The victors will be handsomely rewarded! YES!

God is GOOD!

QUOTE:
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If the imagery of the glorified state is not a spiritual reality in our lives, then we have not received the Revelation of Christ in His full glory, the second coming of which, is for this life if we want to be included in the book of life.
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I disagree.

1Cor. 15:19: "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." What this verse teaches us is that life here is miserable but the hope of a blessed future works to makes this life endurable.

I have never seen this to be a reality, either literally or spiritually: Revelation 21:1-8:

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

6 Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.

7 “He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

8 “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

People are still crying; there is still death, hunger, persecution, pain...it has not passed away. But we Hope in the reality that what Jesus says will happen will happen.

God bless.

QUOTE:
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Sister, you speak of your experience or lack thereof, but there is so much more if you would only open your mind to it.
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There is some in your post I agree with but I have never seen any godly person that has ceased crying, nor been immune from pain, be it physical, emotional or whatever.

Brenda, I think it is futile for you and me to continue our discussion on this topic. Both of us are set in our interpretation of the book of Revelation.

Take care.

ginnyrose