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Art Katz - Not wanted inmost churches

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5nva Sep 24, 2003

I wanted to let everyone know of a Jewish believer named Art Katz. Art is a man most believe is a prophet. He lives on a community in Minnesota along with many other believers. He travels the country speaking anywhere he is given the chance. He speaks at a lot of home churches as well and in other countries.His main message to the church is concerning Israel and their coming suffering to bring them to salvation.They have a convocation and prophetic school at the end of August every year at the community. He currently has moved to Brooklyn, NY to minister to the Jewish community. I know he has visited TSC and I believe he has met with David Wilkerson in the past.Here is the link to his website where you can download messages in MP3 and order tapes and books he has written.http://www.benisrael.org/God bless.Mike

sermonindex Sep 24, 2003

Art Katz - Not wanted inmost churchesI listened to a few excerpts from his sermons and he seems quite good. He said one intresting thing that he was perscuted the most harshly at a baptist seminary rather than a secular university. lol :-P Art Katz Messages on SermonIndex

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Chosen7Stone Sep 25, 2003

His main message to the church is concerning Israel and their coming suffering to bring them to salvation.You commented that most believe him to be a prophet. I don't know that this is very prophetic, considering it's discussed in Romans 11:11-32.I'm very interested in witnessing to Jews (I was raised in South Florida, which has a large Jewish population) and a resource I love is a website that shows you how to witness effectively to Jewish friends. Worth a look.

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lwpray Sep 26, 2003

Art Katz’ messages hold an intellectual as well as a spiritual challenge to the established structures and routines in our ordinary church life which is most refreshing. His conclusions are very much more right than wrong.In the context of the so called prophetic movement and in the overheated quest for emotionally based spiritual experiences he is certainly a sobering voice in the wilderness.Conclusion: Recommended listening for the daring mind and for hearts that are not satisfied with the ordinary.L. W.

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jeremyhulsey Sep 26, 2003

Mary wrote:Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------His main message to the church is concerning Israel and their coming suffering to bring them to salvation.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------You commented that most believe him to be a prophet. I don't know that this is very prophetic, considering it's discussed in Romans 11:11-32.Actually Mary, that's how the O/T prophets worked too. Their message came from scripture already discussed mainly in Deutoronomy. The prophets didn't do a lot of foretelling per se. The bulk of their message was to cry out to Israel about their condition as it was compared to that of the Law/Torah. While they certainly did prophecy future events, that was only a small part of the prophets task.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

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5nva Sep 26, 2003

I agree with Hulsey. If you think about what is spoken by most preachers concerning Israel, which is very little, then it is very prophetic. You may want to buy Art Katz's bookThe Spirit of Prophecy – An Examination of the Prophetic Call. You can order his books and tapes on the Web Site I listed on the first post.You can also maybe listen to this message online on the website.Mike

sermonindex Sep 28, 2003

Art is a man most believe is a prophet.Does this mean that people believe he is a prophet or is he a self-proclaimed prophet. I personally believe that if a man is a prophet it is not something that he will use in a showy manner. The gifts of God are meant for bringing glory (attention and honour) to Jesus Christ not to the man that has been gifted. As John the baptist once said: "I must decrease and He (Jesus) must increase".You commented that most believe him to be a prophet. I don't know that this is very prophetic, considering it's discussed in Romans 11:11-32.Thats a great point Mary! Just because a man has a good grasp of the bible in realtion to Israel and the Church doesn't necessary make him a prophet of God. I think the Church of Jesus Christ lacks an a proper understanding of Spiritual Israel and our injoining into their promises. "Salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious (jealous)" - Romans 11:11He said one intresting thing that he was perscuted the most harshly at a baptist seminary rather than a secular university. lol I stand corrected on this because someone brought to my attention that it seems peculiar that a Christian organization would perscute him more than a wordly organization. Why would he have such free reign and acceptance in the world if he is a prophet of God. John the Baptist on the other hand was thrown into jail and killed by the wordly authorties because of his radical message to the world.

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5nva Sep 29, 2003

Art does not going around claiming to be a prophet. Although I think he has maybe made some kind of reference to such over the years. He is everything other than showy.The issue of Israel is not his only message. He speaks often concerning the condition of the church.Art speaks wherever he is given the opportunity. It may be a secular setting or not, that does not matter. The point is the church should be more open to receive the word than the world and it the mentioned circumstance that was not the case.Maybe some of you should read and or listen to some of his messages online or order them and then make a judgement. I for one have heard him many times, met him and believe he preaches a sound message. He also has had George Warnock speak at his fellowship of whom I've seen many post on here about.

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lwpray Sep 29, 2003

A glimpse of Katz, his thoughts on what Church could and should be.The Meaning of EternityPaul wrote to Timothy, Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called ... (1 Timothy 6:12a)It is evident that Paul is not speaking of some future time, but now! It is something given by the life of God—a particular kind of wisdom, a mindset and a perception. Whosoever believes on Him, shall have eternal life, not just future, but now. It is a very peculiar state of being, a dimension that is concurrent with time, and indeed, it is a dimension that needs to be contended for, if we will enter into His life. “Contend for the faith that was once given to the saints” is more than just an injunction to embrace their doctrines, but an invitation to come into a certain dimension of being. It is not going to make you ethereal and irrelevant. You are not going to become dreamy or visionary, for if eternity is anything, it is the very essence of that which is real.Eternity needs to be brought into time, and the church is the only agency on earth given by God through whom that can happen. But it is an apostolic church that lives, and moves, and has its being in the eternal dimension, and who abides in Him, who inhabits eternity. Our problem is that we secretly covet the world’s admiration. We want to succeed on the world’s terms, if not academically, then theologically. We find ways to be polite, and to address our Christian convictions in a manner by which the world can receive them. We have lost the apostolic view, which was intended to confront the world in its entire framework of thought, for the whole of non-Christian thought is a lie, for it has not reckoned on eternity. It has not brought the invisible things into its consideration, and therefore all of its other considerations are amiss.The world needs to be confronted by the things that are eternal. Paul himself demonstrated this on Mars Hill. He struck at the very heart of the world and its lies. It is remarkable that he came down that hill alive, when he could just as easily have been the object of men stopping their ears and rushing upon him with teeth gnashing. Are we eager to preach Christ and Him crucified, Him risen, the soon coming King and Judge? We cannot divide these realities. Paul was determined not to know anything but Christ and Him crucified - and it takes a determination! Everything in the world, the flesh, and the Devil conspires against it. It wants to diminish this truth, and put it in mere religious and doctrinal categories, but we are enjoined to preach this gospel to every creature, namely,… He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead. (Acts 17:31)God has furnished proof to all men by setting a ‘Paul’ before them, who not only proclaims the doctrine of resurrection and judgment, but is himself a demonstration of the resurrection life, a taste of the power of the ages to come. The issue of resurrection is already the issue of eternity, for it is the life to come. And when a man stands before unbelieving Greeks and speaks to them penetratingly out of that life, then God has furnished proof to those men.Eternity as Resurrection LifeThere is an entry into the eternal dimension through the reality of resurrection life. Merely approving the doctrine is not enough, we need to live and move and have our being in Jesus Christ, or our words about an imminent judgment are without value. There can be no preaching of the resurrection, or of eternal judgment unless the entire framework of our life is changed. Do we really want to see all men everywhere repent? They need to see the eternity that is already in us, and they shall be eternally condemned except that they receive Him in whose Name we come. We are moving to a final and ultimate confrontation with the philosophical spirit of the world. Something timeless and eternal must be presented to men by an apostolic church, a people who have laid hold of that which is eternal, and are not just awaiting some future state. They are already appropriating it, and bringing it into their present consideration. The issue of the resurrection in us is the issue of eternity for them. God is desirous of an apostolic mind-set, for these are the foundations of the church - not the issues of the mechanics of church government, however important that might be in itself. A church without the eternal dimension, however correct it may be in every other form, is not an apostolic or authentic church. This is a position far beyond correct doctrine. Something must come again into the atmosphere of God’s corporate people, a sense of urgency that we ourselves cannot calculate or establish. We must be purveyors of a sense of imminence, and of the things that shall shortly come to pass. We must bring the eternal sense of things, and the eternal stakes of heaven or hell, because we have already sensed the eternal weight of glory as being so presently real to us now. The rejection, the abuse, the reproach, and the persecution that will come to us for bearing an unwelcome word to a world that does not want to hear, is for us, only a momentary and light affliction. But it will be true only to the degree we see that which is invisible.Captured from chapter 2 ofApostolic Foundations:The Challenge of Living an Authentic Christian LifeBy Arthur Katz

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jeremyhulsey Sep 29, 2003

I'm listening to Art Katz right now. His sermon "Sons and Daughters of God" sounds a lot like the Manifest Sons of God teaching. Is he apart of that movement?In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

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5nva Sep 29, 2003

I may be wrong but I don't think Art is part of the Manifest sons of God teaching.Mike

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lwpray Sep 29, 2003

Brother Art does not ”belong” to that many of the modern inventions like ”The Manifested Sons of God” teachings, the ”Laughing revival” – what a contradiction – or among the so called “Prophetic movement”. He takes a quite severe stand in separation from all these things and items.He was a friend of Ravenhill, takes delight in reading and quoting Sparks.

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jeremyhulsey Sep 29, 2003

After listening to most of the sermon, it sounds pretty good. I was just curious, because at the beginning of his sermon he used many of the catch-phrases of that particular brand of theology.I can see where his teachings would be twisted by goups like that and cause misunderstandings.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

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lwpray Sep 29, 2003

Dear Jeremy,May I ask what tape you were listening to?I have worked quite a lot with Art's texts end teachings, even translating some of it into Swedish.Lars

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jeremyhulsey Sep 30, 2003

Lars,I was listening to "Sons And Daughters Of God."In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

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lwpray Sep 30, 2003

Dear Jeremy,A most valuable reference...I have gone through it for the first time this afternoon. I have to go back to it a few more times.Art's teaching sessions really become events, exactly the way he intends to.Blessings,Lars

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