Praying for the Ungodly

Presently, I am the Sunday School teacher for the sister's class at church. Our lessons are currently being taken from the book of Jeremiah, hence my questions.

God called Jeremiah to preach, told him the people would not listen, but preach anyways - I will be with you. Along the way, God also gave Jeremiah a few instructions that he was to take for himself. The most notable one is found in 7:14: "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee." This sentiment is repeated again in 11:14 and 14:11.

As I mull this command to Jeremiah, considering the role of a prophet I am left asking a few questions.

How does God use one to reach the wicked people? According to the OT God used preaching by the prophets - confrontation. Jesus did likewise, as did Peter on and after Pentecost.

Confrontation. Hmmmm...not being politically correct...hmmmm

NT tells us that "how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Romans 10:14) Preaching, confrontation, again.

Has the admonition we have grown up with to pray for the ungodly been wrong? We hear this everywhere when we see people rebel or false teachers teach: "have you prayed for them? That is more effective then talking - to them or about them..." Is this what the prophets did? the disciples? Paul?

The apostle John, who wrote 1,11,111 John wrote a lot about love but in 1John 5:16 he writes: "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."

Is direct confrontation the best way to deal with sin? EDIT: Is mere praying a cop-out? OR, unBiblical?

Is our refusal to confront making it easier for rebellion to to exist, to gather more adherents to their philosophy?

I am being challenged at every level....what do these Scriptures teach you?

GOOD QUESTION! It made me think of this passage:

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

It appears from what Paul instructed Timothy that prayer is a vital ingredient in helping reach God’s goal that all men be saved.

What you have presented is the sad reality in our day that often confrontation and preaching are avoided while only prayer is used. From my understanding of God’s word, it takes BOTH. I too have been studying Jeremiah lately, but if you notice, Jeremiah fulfilled his responsibility faithfully until God expressly told him not to pray for them. He continued to warn them even after God had instructed him to quit praying for them, but for those who would not choose to surrender to king Nebuchadnezzar , there was only one verdict: destruction. His emotions were moved when he saw what was coming … people lying in the streets and fields dead … being thrown in pits with donkey’s bodies … and because of his personal compassion, he wanted to continue praying, but God simply told him to stop.

We must continue to pray AND to warn them, unless God specifically tells us to stop. Samuel dealt with a wicked people, but he considered it a sin against the LORD to stop praying for them:

1Sa 12:23 Moreover as for me, God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you: but I will teach you the good and the right way:
1Sa 12:24 Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you.
1Sa 12:25 But if ye shall still do wickedly, ye shall be consumed, both ye and your king.

Both prayer and confrontation are needed, but if we say that we are only praying and fail to confront, we may find ourselves in the coward’s judgment of Rev. 21:8 (fearful = coward).

Michael, I was not aware of those verses in Samuel. Good point.

I am also aware of 1Peter 3:1 "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives." Here one reads how an unbelieving spouse can be won without preaching. However, I would find this situation different. Likewise when there is a prodigal child in the family preaching has a way of angering them. I have been led to pray that I would not interfere in God's work in their hearts. Now, that requires a lot of self-discipline to not speak. But these situations are different.

I do keep hearing that one should just pray and pray and pray. This mindset makes it really hard for the one who is concerned. If one does speak out they are frowned upon, yet, this is the means God used to warn the wicked.

I do find it enlightening how the LORD Jesus prayed for his disciples. The apostles also asked the Believers to pray for them.

Many times I wonder why does the LORD want us to pray for others? Is God ignorant of other's needs? He is not ignorant of others slide into sin...so, why pray? He is aware of his children's needs...is he not sovereign and will do as he wills? What say?

During Lincoln's evolving walk of Faith he made this comment in 1859 that might be what your getting at:

Mr. Lincoln made an interesting argument regarding sin shortly before the Civil War. "Isaac Cogdal, who had known Lincoln from the time of the New Salem period, recalled a discussion on religion in Lincoln's office in 1859. 'Herndon was in the office at the time. Lincoln expressed himself in about these words: 'He did not nor could not believe in the endless punishment of any one of the human race. He understood punishment for sin to be a Bible doctrine; that the punishment was parental in its object, aim and design, and intended for the good of the offender; hence it must cease when justice is satisfied. He added that all that was lost by the transgression of Adam was made good by the atonement; all that was lost by the fall was made good by the sacrifice, and he added this remark, that punishment being a 'provision of the gospel system, he was not sure but the world would be better off if a little more punishment was preached by our ministers, and not so much pardon of sin.'"64

Paris Reidhead addresses this subject frequently in the messages found right here at the SI site. As a missionary to Africa, he has the experience to back up his teaching.

Essential in praying (as Reidhead might explain it) is the understanding that salvation results from a four stage development pattern that begins with an awakening. People do not know how desperately they need Christ, and often their awakening is the result of the prayers of others. So that it is always in order to pray for the ungodly, and as James notes, the fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. In other words, it works.

The fun part is listening to Reidhead tell the stories that illustrate these things!

Sidewalk,

Which sermon of Reidhead are you referring to? There are only 176 posted here on SI...

I understand the concept of praying quite well - it is heart communication with the LORD Jesus via the Holy Spirit. It goes far beyond mere ritual and words. Ritual is what you do when you teach your little child "Now I lay me down to sleep...", yet I suspect few folks have ever moved beyond this stage - hence the need for prayer books.

Shifting our focus from praying for the ungodly to praying for the saints, I even wonder why God is asking us to do so when he is going to do as he wills anyways. Then I wonder if this question is not a doubt planted in my mind by the enemy of our souls?

It still remains a mystery to me why the LORD would have us pray for the saints when he will do as he wills. BUT then I wonder if God does not want us to feel a need, a concern - be it physical, spiritual, emotional - to feel helpless so we will tell him all about it so he can work on these issues which in turn will give him an opportunity to demonstrate his power, might to me/us. In the process of life, this will enhance one's admiration,worship of this God, thus making Him believable to us poor creatures. When one sees God work it will enhance our love for him. Since this appears to be the case, there seems to be great mystery still, something not quite fathomable. Or, can not I not see the forest because of the trees?

Still, when I pray for our prodigal loved ones, I see this more as something that benefits me more personally then perhaps it will the object of my prayers. God is going to work because he says He will draw men and it is not his will that any should perish. (Still the Esaus and Judas' remain..) There have been many reports of people coming to the LORD who were never ministered to personally by anyone.

As I understand God telling Jeremiah to not pray for these people is He not telling him that he knows it all and "I am working to this end for reconciliation?" "Save your emotional energy and go out and preach - I know better what is going on then you do."

Is it not true that when we pray and pray for the ungodly, we soon get exasperated because we see nothing happening but only experience renewed opposition? Then we become discouraged and shut up...But God says, preach, preach. Teach, teach...The old wise preachers used to say that if you quit preaching on an issue it will be embraced before too many years...

Prayer for the ungodly, for the saints...and why? is it because God so desperately wants a loving relationship with his children and He knows what will interfere in that process and knows what will enhance it as well..

Maybe some things are still just to wonderful for me...or still a bit mysterious.

Anybody else ever had to deal with these questions? I know I was all over the map with this question...hope it does not confuse anyone.

Hi ginnyrose,

I'm not sure how relevant this is - but I'm reminded of an article a friend once wrote which touched on Jeremiah 7:16:

"Beyond Morality"
http://apoorwayfaringman.blogspot.som/2005/08/beyond-morality.html

Essentially he discusses what is "right" and "wrong" from the Christian perspective. His conclusion is that the essence of Christian morality is not about having a definite set of moral rules per se, but knowing the will of God in every situation. Goodness and righteousness are defined not by abstract concepts - they are defined by a person, and that's God Himself.

Good morning Sandra!

First question- regarding the Paris Reidhead stories, I would begin by listening to the So Great Salvation series which holds a wealth of information and inspiration. As I note frequently in my posts, he is probably my favorite preacher here on the site.

There have been volumes of books written on prayer, and some people like Andrew Murray and E.M. Bounds are masters on the subject. But a couple passages in the Bible speak to me: when the angel tells Daniel that he had made an effort to come to Daniel 3 weeks earlier when Daniel started to pray but was delayed. "The Prince of Persia opposed me" he says, and he even needed other help in the heavenly realm Daniel could not see as battle raged and Daniel kept praying. But it was Daniel's prayer that fueled the angel's fighting strength and caused him to prevail. (Daniel10)

Daniel saw nothing, heard nothing, but somehow knew he was to continue. He was a demonstration of what faith looks like in action.

Then there is the story Jesus told of the woman with a legal issue coming before a judge who cared nothing for her. Just to note for the times, a woman in this time of history had little more rights than a camel or a goat. The judge grants her request just to bring an end to her annoying visits.

A weird but powerful way for Jesus to make a point!

Pray. You can't see the battle, hear the clash and clang of heavenly swords, smell the smoke and the blood, but in faith you know it is going on.

JESUS also SAID I pray not for the world ,but for them that believe in my word

the thing is jesus new who were his elect ,that the father gave him .but we don't

obviously some old testament propherts did as well

blessings ,,must go

Yesterday I had an experience that was quite revealing. Actually, it may not be all that profound, quite ordinary, in fact. But the timing was significant.

I had heard something and it disturbed me. It was not an isolated report but coupled with a few other things it looked alarming. So, I did what I felt compelled to do, contact a friend who could enlighten me. Now this does seem like a no-brainer unless you realize that too many times when I had questions about disturbing news I was told to not confront or ask the persons directly involved. I suppose these folks were well meaning, I do not know. In any case, I would be left with questions that begged answers which were not forthcoming but resulted in loss of trust for the people involved.

Anyhow, this friend came to my house and we talked. In our conversation she put me at ease. What I had heard was not as it appeared to others. My fears were laid to rest. I am at peace about it - now.

Now, what does this have to do with my question as stated in my OP? Simply this: casting ALL of my questions upon the LORD will result in peace. Sometimes the devil makes us feel guilty for not praying for our prodigals every day. Yet, the reality is that the Holy Spirit did not prompt one to pray for them. Sometimes I feel strong urges to pray for people - some asked for prayer and many others didn't but the urge is there so you pray. I am coming to peace in knowing this is the way God wants us to pray.

Simple, I know. Just listen to the prompting of the Holy Spirit on who you should pray for and forget about how God works or does not work - He is going to do it without any advice/understanding from me or any other human being.

I am of the conviction God ordained this encounter yesterday and I am grateful.

ginnyrose

When I pray for the unsaved in my family this verse is always a comfort to me.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
I always remind Him that he said this and thank him for his long suffering and mercy,committing my loved ones to Him.

brothagary wrote : ///JESUS also SAID I pray not for the world ,but for them that believe in my word
the thing is jesus new who were his elect ,that the father gave him .but we don't
obviously some old testament propherts did as well///

We can not force men to become Christians.

But we can pray for God to convict them.
I can personally testify that when we earnestly pray for them from a broken and sincere heart, they will come under severe conviction!

After Jesus was lifted up, He is drawing, calling and convicting, (All MEN), (All MEN) everywhere to repent!

From His infinite wisdom and forknowledge of how each man will deviseth his way , He Chose and Elected and directed from before the fondation of the world, a few from the many that He called,.

God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live.

We can be used as insturments in the conversion of others!
Alleluia!

What a Good, Merciful and Gracious and Loving God, the God of the Bible is! Having no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Calling and commanding (all Men) everywhere to Repent.
Alleluia!