Nakedness

Why do men put on clothes to dress up and women take off clothes to dress up?

I recently attended a visitation at a church. It was a sweltering July evening.A lot of the men had suits and ties on but most of the women were in such a state of undress that it was disgusting. What makes them think that I or anyone else wants to see cleavage,bare backs and or legs?

I was burdened by this for several days. I wondered if this was ,to a small extent,how Jeremiah felt about the sins of Israel? In Jeremiah 7 God tells him to stand in the gate of the Lord's house and proclaim the word of the Lord. I wished I'd have had access to towels and tee shirts to hand out at the door of that church! My Word of the lord would have been to "Abstain from all appearance of evil.'1 Thess.5:22. And Mark 10:19,Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.Defraud meaning to entice men to look but they couldn't have.Then also the verse in 2 Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. I wondered to what each immodestly dressed women would have answered if i had asked what their definition of modesty was.

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest!!

Bonnie, the last time someone like this attended our church I was so upset! She knew better, I promise. She didn't only show cleaverage...

I decided if she comes again dressed like this, I will go to the nursery and get a blanket and ask her to please wrap it around her shoulders. I am sure it will embarrass her to no end but this is nothing in comparison to what she does to the minds of all the others in attendance. But you know what? She has never visited since...maybe her grandmother got on her case, I could believe it...

Go ahead and ask these women your questions - I would love to hear what their response would be. I am surprised you never did!

I understand your frustration.

While we are on this topic,I will have to share what has been on my mind...some could say the Holy Spirit could be convicting us and they are right because I sure do not like the job He is asking me to do.

Scripture teaches us that the older women should teach the younger ones...and we are now the older ones - the older ones have died off and we are the younger ones who got 'old' - Lord have mercy, literally!

The HS is telling me I need to be more vocal about these issues. But it is hard when they will avoid situations where teaching can and does occur.

One time I had invited some company and among them was a pregnant mother who wore skin-tight tops, framing her swollen belly for all the world to see. This is totally immodest! She had other maternity clothes that were loose, nice. I called her and asked if she would please wear something else...I did not preach, just told her she had other nice clothes and I would appreciate it if she would wear those instead when they come. She agreed. Later she called me back to inform me that she dresses like her husband wants her to. LORD, have mercy! Anyhow, they never showed up, ever called to inform me they were not coming.

I am sure they know better but do wonder how well they know the LORD, seriously!

OK ginny rose....FYI the one lady I did asked answered in a huff! I asked what her definition of modesty was. She snorted and answered, "well it's not like yours!"

OK you guys- ladies- you sure know how to choose a title for a topic!

I admit I looked!

Good luck trying to tell anyone in this modern era that their dress is immodest! It reminds me of a little story:

At a party, a middle aged gentleman strikes up a conversation with a very attractive young woman. At one point he looks around and then whispers to her, "Would you sleep with me for $10,000?"

She giggled and said "Sure!"

He continued, "How about for $20?"

She frowned and slapped his face. "What do you think I am, some kind of whore??"

He looked at her and said, "We've already established that, I'm just looking for the price."

Yes it is a little crude and perhaps inappropriate for the forum. But it goes to the point of recognizing how what we wear sends messages to others. So many people just wear whatever they like, in disregard for the sensibilities of others. When Madam wears tight low-cut tops that reveal cleavage, Monsieur is going to look.

My wife and I attended one church for about 6 months or so after a beloved pastor left town to start a work in another city. But we found it very hard to get past the extreme casual dress of most of the congregation, loose shorts, flip-flops, tank tops, old T-shirts with "God is awesome" printed themes. It all just reflected a casual boredom with whatever they thought Christianity was, and the pastoral team never addressed it. Actually, their dress wasn't much better.

The message from this congregation was that none of the things of God mattered very much.

I would gingerly stretch out on just one more limb. When women dress in nice clothes that cover everything discreetly, this is actually very attractive! When in an appropriate hug at church, in public, I don't want to place my hand on a bare back.

On a related side note, I live in San Diego where our mayor has recently made national news with his extremely inappropriate comments and fondling of women. We still don't know where that story is going, but suffice to say those of us of faith need to be especially watchful over our dress and physical expressions of affection toward one another.

Love means desiring the highest and best for another, and we sure need to be doing that even with our choices of clothing.

Ok, sidewalk, what would happen if you men would take the leadership and start addressing this issue?! Oh, I know what you will say - people will not listen, get mad and call you all kinds of unflattering names! Sure will! EDITED: I used to experience something like that at CPC. I would get all kinds of reactions to my counsel, I mean ALL kinds. They ranged from indifference to anger. I used to say I preferred an angry response to an indifferent one because I knew then I hit a sore spot, one that the Holy Spirit was working on. All I did was give physical evidence of it by addressing the issue. But....when it comes to people you know, it is a different story - I can be intimidated! SIGH.

Reckon, I will seriously have to start acting my age! Be faithful to the task Paul laid upon us older sisters! Oh, I did tell one dude who was wearing his pants down to his knees that he needed to pull them up! He just grinned - suppose he thought I was a cranky grandma...

Sandra, I hear you loud and clear! But as you know, those with an ear to hear will hear, and many there are with no ear to hear.

Part of the curse of these days is as described in Isaiah 3, where the prophet describes the removal of wise leadership from the land. Children will be their leaders, Women will rule over them. Not that there is anything wrong with women and children, but the case is made- men who fail to lead in godly wisdom will be replaced by whatever opportunity throws in the gap.

Strange how so many people love to dance close to the fire. How satisfied we seem to be with total reprobates elected to make our decisions for us.

Jeremiah 5:30. "A horrible thing has happened in the land, the prophets speak lies, and the priests rule on their own authority...and My people love it so!" (Paraphrased)

This is a really good video on the subject:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=2423

I am trying to find another really good video that I saw a long time ago of an elder Baptist minister describing several different things that a man thinks when a woman dresses in ways that draw attention to her body.

It seems like it was 10 different things that he addressed, but I can't remember. If anyone finds it, please post it on this thread.

Here is the video that I was looking for. It is a great analysis of the subject from the burdened heart of an elder man of God:

http://youtu.be/8W1s7u0YiAU

QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________

Strange how so many people love to dance close to the fire. How satisfied we seem to be with total reprobates elected to make our decisions for us.
______________________________________________________________

SIGH...so sad...and what makes it worse is when people in leadership dress and act provocatively...

As I look around it seems to me the LORD is exposing the tares to his children.

Going off on a rabbit trail...many years ago Larry Christenson wrote the book "The Christian Family". In it he addresses the effect of provacative dress of females upon the male mind. He says that men will turn to homosexuality as a result of over-stimulus by female undress.

'nuff said.

If you have read the "Prayer Please" post you know that my mother passed away this week. In preparing for her funeral tomorrow we have had to go through a lifetime of photos. I have homeschooled my 7 children, ranging from 18-30 years old. I taught them modesty, dressed my girls in loose-fitting jumpers....had my sons wear t-shirts when in the swimming pool. HOWEVER, the world has rubbed off even though some of my children are saved and were raised in a distinctly Christian, set-apart home. It is a grief to me beyond words. In looking at the old photos of how they used to dress (when I was in charge), they have disdain. They are continually trying to get ME to be more "trendy" in my dress. I only share this to say that the spirit of the age is so very strong. I have commented and commented and commented to them on the immodesty of their dress. I have even pointed out to my daughters that they are causing their father and brothers to stumble in a big way. The Lord has now told me to keep silent. But it would surely help to be hearing talk on modesty/purity from the pulpit because young people who are captivated by fashion and worldliness are not the ones listening to the online sermons on modesty. I feel the Church has failed these young people. A tree is known by its fruit...

A women highlighting her bodily features by loose dress is actually a form of witchcraft.

Witchcraft is undue, unsanctioned and subtle control over a persons behaviour, emotions and health.

Men give her more attention and she gains more recognition and influence. She complains when men lust after her but would feel let down if nobody lusts after her.

Man who are their husbands (or partners) think themselves of having gained a trophy of manhood.

We had so many scandals recently of men in power who excel in natural abilities but lack in character falling in sexual sin.

The bible says

2.Tim 2
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

I have great respect for women who dress modestly - and for husbands who hold their wifes and daughters to this standard.

Narrowpath, I don't think you are referring to my daughters' loose-fitting jumpers as witchcraft, at least I hope not...

But I liked what you said about husbands or partners considering that if their woman is "hot" it is a trophy of manhood for them. I think the same is true often of fathers with their daughters. I never understood it, but have watched it over decades...it is like they are parading their woman, be it wife, partner, daughter, out there for the world to ogle at, and thus it lifts them to higher status. What a HORRIFIC lie of the enemy....God help us!

As one who has struggled with this topic for a very very long time and gone from both ends of the spectrum what is modest dress then??

I have heard some teachings say women must never wear pants even if they are loose fit. I have heard women must never wear shorts even if they are knee length or Capri's

I have heard teaching that women should wear dresses only but they must come down to the ankle? other teachings say dress only but to below the knee are fine? Tops must be loose, and no short sleeves at all, others say short sleeves are fine but no tank tops,

I know of one lady who thought she was dressing modest wearing a v neck sweater with another top underneath so everything was covered and she was still told it was not modest because others thought it wrong to wear a v neck even in layers

honestly the topic has become very confusing i think

rdg

I once observed in my fellowship a young woman handle an Inappropriately dressed middle aged woman very wisely.

The older Woman was wearing a somewhat revealing top, The young modest woman very discreetly and meekly and lovingly took a sweater and very nonoffensively went and placed it on the shoulders of the older woman, and told her that she seen how cold she must have been.

The young woman was not lying, it was somewhat cold and I believe that she genuinely felt that the older woman was probably somewhat uncomfortably cold, but at the sametime I think the older woman had probably recieved an understanding that such dress was not appropriate.

Rdg, I believe it IS a very confusing topic. And truthfully, young women in particular are trying to find out how to live as a Believer in a decadent culture. I think though, and I have taught my 4 daughters, that it is not a list of rules.....it is a heart fully devoted to Christ that desires purity. And a heart that desires purity will not want to be as close to the line as it can get. Some women truly are not educated about modesty - it is not even on their radar screen. I believe God has given godly older women to teach them.

mama,

I know I am preaching to the choir in addressing your comment about how your daughters wish for you to dress more trendy. I just want to encourage you to do what the Holy Spirit is instructing you to do.

We had a lady, Evelyn Miller, who markets modest clothing on the web via http://www.liliesapparel.com speak at our church some time ago. They get marketing info to alert them of the upcoming trends in fashion. She told us all the fashions, trends are geared to be sexy, all of them. You can look at this website but let me tell you one thing, Evelyn and her girls dress so pretty, so nice - she looks like a queen! Really! and her daughters look like princess! So pretty - much nicer then what they have on their website. Makes anything you see in stores look like trash.

I cannot prove it but I suspect that when people indulge in immorality they experience a loss of self respect because of unresolved guilt that evolves into loathing for themselves. This is now reflected in their attire which is sloppy and seductive in turns. I promise you when I see a male or female dressed nicely I will sit up and take notice: they radiate self respect and in turn respect for you. If sloppy there is a sense of disgust - they look like they got done working in the barn with the cows, hogs and chickens! Makes me wonder when they will bottle animal smells and market it as trendy perfume!

God bless you, mama. Do not give yup - your children will grow up someday and when they listen to the call of God on their life, they will be grateful for your consistency.

Sandra

it is interesting. I have known two women who love the Lord very much and one tells you that a woman must wear a dress that comes to her ankles, wear her hair long and cover her head while the other will teach that it is alright for woman to wear pants(loose fitting) tops that cover, and wear hair shorter. Both believe God looks at a persons heart. Both of these ladies love the Lord very much. Both have deep convictions about modesty and obeying Jesus and yet such differing views.

rdg

We need to exercise some wisdom in this and allow the Holy Spirit to work in us. There are things that are obviously immodest, but for others, we must understand that the Spirit convicts us differently. There is no biblical mandate on how to dress, other than the mandate on modesty. This is an area where the Spirit may convict us differently, and where we can say, "Others may, but I may not."

I for one wear pants almost exclusively. This was my husband's preference because he felt pants were more modest than skirts, which in the wind or similar situations could expose more skin (or even more than that) which wearing pants would prevent. In fact, he insisted on my daughters wearing pants under their skirts (even just shorts) because of this very reason. on the other hand, I find the way the Amish and other "simple" women dress very beautiful.

I don't really care about being "stylish" because I find that if one sticks to classical and conservative business clothing you are never out of style and always look presentable and modest.

Natalie

I just started attending a church which I thought would be very conservative. It is a Calvary Church, which I understand to be rooted in Scripture. However, I find that there is some looseness on the issue of modesty. For example, I have been surprised that women wear shorts to church. This weekend there was a Seminar (not a church service) and one of the young women was wearing a halter top (sleeveless and strapless!) to the Seminar in the Church. I happen to know that this young lady is very active in the church and also really loves the Lord. No one else seemed bothered by this. Several other young women were dressed in t-shirts with really thin straps (I would call these under clothing). I must say, this is a minority of the women there, but it is still obvious.

So I ask advice on two things:

1. I am new at this church. If the leadership is not concerned with saying anything, how much can I say? It would be totally different if I had been attending for a long period of time, but I have been to at most 4 services. How can I approach this with love and not step on the toes of the church's leadership?

2. This issue is really bothering me and I am considering whether this is really the church for us. There are a lot of other good things there, but this shows to me a major failure of the church, so I wonder what else is missing that I have not seen in my short time there. (Another issue with this church is that they seem kind of confined to the four walls of the church, at least locally. They do support missionaries abroad and even sponsor some missions trips, but I have not seen any concern with local evangelism. But that is another topic.)

Thanks for any advice.

Natalie