Born of Water

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.John 3:1-7 (KJV)What is the "born of water" Jesus is talking about?I have always thought it meant our natural birth because in the preceeding verse Nicodemus is talking about "his mother's womb" and in the next verse it seems to equate "born of water" with "born of the flesh"; however some people say that the born in water is describing water baptism / repentance.What thinketh ye?

I personaly think we must be born of the living water (word of God) breathed on by the Holy Spirit. "born of water and the spirit" "For man can not live on bead alone but on every WORD that proceeds from the lips of God." Jesus is the bread that came down from heaven he has poured out his blood that you and I may be brought near to the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is near,repent for the remission of sins and you will recieve the Holy Ghost.But we need more than just the forgiveness of sins, we need to renew our minds. When we were born again we could see the Kingdom of God ....but we have to enter in! We need a saviour ..yes but we also need a Lord to renew our mind by the daily washing of the water of the word. As I seek Gods face in the word breathed on by the Holy Spirit I am convicted of sin in my life.Which drives me to the cross and brings about Godly sorrow and true deeper repentance. In other words as I behold Jesus as in a glass I am transformed into the same image. From Image to image and glory to glory.Hallelieua! Thanks be to God and his Lamb that was slain!!!!!! That is how I understand it. What do you think?

I think that "born of water" means to be born naturally. Probably coming from the same saying as "her water broke'? I'm just guessing... Born of water, i think, is the natural birth. "born of the spirit" is to have your spirit born again ie born again, converted... Thats my opinion.

I think that "born of water" means to be born naturally. Probably coming from the same saying as "her water broke'? I'm just guessing... Born of water, i think, is the natural birth. "born of the spirit" is to have your spirit born again ie born again, converted... Thats my opinion.It was my opinion too for a long time and the opinion of some I have the greatest respect for, but recently I have returned to these verses and see the symbolism much more in the light of the Jewish perceptions and use of water baptism.The Jews regarded proselytes as 'new born' through their baptism. The concept that Jews would need to be reborn was a stunning blow to Nicodemus. We can see the way the Jews struggled with the significance of John's Baptism. I think this is probably a continuation of John Baptist's theme that I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (Mat 3:11 KJV)This contrast becomes a combination in the words of Jesus; a watery baptism and a fiery birth was the way Israel was constituted as a nation. Both are necessary...Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Act 2:38 KJV)

According to Bullinger it is an example of the figure of speech -hendiadys thus it should read "spiritual water"Just as the Lord's glorious appearing is rendered in so many translations as "the appearing of the glory of the great God and saviour" but in the KJV the hendiadys is recognised and it is renderd "glorious appearing"hendiadys basicaly means that one of the nouns is acting as an adjective, spirit in this case. I can't really verify if this is the case in John 3 but I share it for its worth,Taco

What is the "born of water" Jesus is talking about?Some believe that the water Jesus is speaking about here is merely symbolic-as it was in the Old Testament-of purification. Nicodemus would have understood the reference to OT water of purification and no doubt he would have remembered Ezekiel 36:25 and the promise of the new covenant; "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you." Then two verses later is the promise "I will put my Spirit within you." Those verses bring the ideas of water and spirit together, the passage speaks of regeneration by water and the Spirit.Paul seems to echo this in Titus 3:5 when he says, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration[water], and renewing of the Holy Ghost[Spirit]." In Christ,Ron

How do ye explain:That which is born of the flesh is flesh?

Nasher wrote:How do ye explain:That which is born of the flesh is flesh?And that of the Spirit is spirit.You must be born again(from above) you have already had a natural birth -your fleshnow you must have a birth of spiritual water.

Paul seems to echo this in Titus 3:5 when he says,"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration[water], and renewing of the Holy Ghost[Spirit]."Those verses bring the ideas of water and spirit together, the passage speaks of regeneration by water and the Spirit.Ron this passage was in my mind too, but what would 'regeneration by water' mean? If we ask what does 'regeneration by Spirit' mean I think we have a ready answer, but 'regeneration by water'?In the verse above, would you see 'the laver of regeneration' as the exact equivalent of 'born of water'? if so does this imply that we can divide them one from the other?

Ron this passage was in my mind too, but what would 'regeneration by water' mean? If we ask what does 'regeneration by Spirit' mean I think we have a ready answer, but 'regeneration by water'? In the verse above, would you see 'the laver of regeneration' as the exact equivalent of 'born of water'? if so does this imply that we can divide them one from the other?Good questions. I believe the washing of regeneration speaks of the inward work of God of which baptism is the outward seal. Water purifies and signifies the removing of the guilt of sin. Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling upon the name of the Lord (Acts 22:16)That he might sanctify and cleanse us by the washing of water by the word.(Eph 5:26)Now I don't believe that one is literally saved by baptism but perhaps figuratively. I believe the seal of baptism is of great importance however we shouldn't put our trust in the sacrament of baptism but rather-as Peter says-we should look to the answer of a good conscience (see 1 Peter 3:21).I don't see the laver as the exact equivalent, although I believe it does picture this and also it pictures the daily cleansing of defilement as we live in this world.In Christ,Ron

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There is a hint that Paul gives us that one is NOT born again instantly but over a period of time.Karl

I keep messing up---I'll get it right though. You statement on not being born instantly is in accurate ---1Jn 2:12-14 Are we talking about the maturation process or and event? Being born of the Spirit--i.e.> "Born Again" is a punctillier event, a one time event, much like an exclamation point! in a sentence. What is being talked about in the sprinkling of water is 2 fold: 1)We live in a fallen world and as such we need washing by the word for our minds/consciences/spirit/ the Word of God has a regenerative effect in and of it self on all 3 levels 2) Your point about being built up line upon line and precept upon precept here a little there a little is acurate if your talking about the PROCESS of maturing a believer who has already been born again, the flesh recieves not the things of the spirit. Bro.Daryl

"Sprinkling with clean water", the word sprinkling denotes that the word would be given little at a time. "precept upon precept line upon line, here a little, there a little" It would be a daily thing and not all at once like the outpouring of the holy Ghost.If you recall OT sprinklings, they all took place in a matter of seconds. No sprinklings ever took place over a period of days. Blood, oil and water were used for sprinkling. I don't think you would want to say that Christ's blood cleanses us 'not all at once', would you? Sprinkling is a symbolic representation of the whole not an indication of 'salvation on the instalment plan'. WKIP

Healingwaters wrote:The water is the Word, the Spirit is the holy Spirit....not arguing that point neccesarily, just wondering what your (and others) interpretation then of these verses is in 1 John 5 -"For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one."don't know if that adds anything to the discussion!?

nimbleThis verse must be significant. We sometimes forget that the gospel of John and his letters and the Revelation were all written close together in time, and almost 30 years after the rest of the New Testament.The verse is difficult because of questions about the verse which precedes it. It is not in most manuscripts, not even Bizantine. The verse should probably read something like this, with the italicised words being unlikely to have been in the originals...1Jo 5:6-9 MKJV This is He who came through water and blood, Jesus Christ, not by water only, but by the water and blood. And the Spirit is He who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth. (7) For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. (8) And there are three that bear witness on the earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are into the one. (9) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. For this is the witness of God which He has testified about His Son.1Jo 5:6-9 YLT This one is he who did come through water and blood--Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; and the Spirit it is that is testifying, because the Spirit is the truth, (7) because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these--the three--are one; (8) and three are who are testifying in the earth , the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are into the one. (9) If the testimony of men we receive, the testimony of God is greater, because this is the testimony of God that He hath testified concerning His Son.

Oh yes, that rings a bell now.. I remember something about that not ideally being used as explicit scriptural evidence for the Trinity. Interesting though... so does that support the idea that the water = word = Jesus? I always thought the water was generally to do with the Spirit ("Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.” By this he meant the Spirit... John 7 v 38) but Jesus clearly isn't being tautological in the originally quoted passage.. is he?Well, I'm now feeling well out of my depth! So I'll leave it to you guys who actually know what you are talking about ;)

Well, I'm now feeling well out of my depth! So I'll leave it to you guys who actually know what you are talking about ;)You can fool some of the people... (Winston Churchill)I wonder if we dig into this verse a bit where it will lead us and how it might connect with John 3. This is a ‘thinking aloud’ document! There are 3 things mentioned, water, blood, Spirit. The last part of the section says that ‘the three’ all agree 'into one'; that is to say they all combine their witness in one purpose. (the words witness, record, testimony are all translations of the same Greek word - martureō - to bear witness) This verse is going one better than two witnesses which would normally be required for evidence and the witness of all three, water, blood, spirit is unanimous.The 'witness' is to the person of Jesus Christ. How are we to understand this? As the topic opens we have the 'three'; water, blood, Spirit. I notice that although the 'three' are not always in the same order...ie. in verse 6 we have (w+b)+ Swhereas is verse 8 we have S + (w+b)...water and blood are always in the same relationship to each other. (w+b) seems to be an identifiable unit. It is literally 'the water and the blood'.Verse 6 speaks of Christ 'having come'. This is an Aorist participle and has the sense of a completed event. Now what can 'having come' refer to, particularly in that such a 'coming' was 'by' (dia-through) (w+b)? verse 20 of this chapter says;And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (1Jo 5:20 KJV)That ‘the life’ was manifested in Christ is one of John’s themes;And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. (Joh 1:31 KJV)Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? (Joh 14:22 KJV)I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (Joh 17:6 KJV)(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) (1Jo 1:2 KJV)And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. (1Jo 3:5 KJV)He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1Jo 3:8 KJV)In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. (1Jo 4:9 KJV)It seems that this is what has ‘come’ the manifestation of a life which had witness born to it by water, blood and Spirit.Other than in 1John 1:7 'blood' is only used in these two verses in this letter. 'Blood' on its own like this is usually short-hand for the work done on the cross. So can we add that value into our equation? that Christ 'came' through (water and 'the redeeming work of the cross')John Baptist's specific role was prepare the setting in which Christ could be made manifest to Israel.And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. (Joh 1:31 KJV)and it was at His baptism that this took place. So I think we have a value for 'water' here too; baptism. This was the setting in which the Father first 'witnessed' to the identity of the Son. If this is the case 'the water and the blood' are the borders of His earthly ministry; in terms of geography, Jordan and Calvary. How is 'the blood' an event in which the Father bore witness to the Son? One of the first things we hear about ‘blood’ in the Scripture is that it speaks; And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. (Gen 4:10 KJV)And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. (Heb 12:24 KJV) So Christ’s ‘blood’ speaks and ‘bears witness’. The physical cross, that took place in time and space, is the outward working of an inward and invisible spiritual reality where the blood (the redeeming death of His Son) was brought into heaven’s Holy of Holies. This is the great theme of Hebrews 9, but the whole of Hebrews is a proof of the identity of the Son of God. ((KJV) Heb1:2; Heb1:5; Heb1:8; Heb2:6; Heb3:6; Heb4:14; Heb5:5; Heb5:8; Heb6:6; Heb7:3; Heb7:28; Heb10:29; Heb11:17; Heb11:24; Heb12:5; Heb12:6;)The Spirit is certainly a witness to His identity and person. who was marked out the Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead; (Rom 1:4 MKJV) The word translated ‘declared’ is more accurately translated in the Jay Green Modern KJV.So we have a three-fold witness to the identity of the life of the Son of God manifested in Jesus Christ; The Father, who spoke at His ‘water’ baptism. The Son who presented His own blood in His sinless, redeeming, death, and the Spirit who, by raising Him from the death, testified to His identity as the Son of God. The three witnesses are unanimous in their testimony. The three witnesses also mark three key points. The Son of God is not only He who was declared so as He came out of the ‘water’, but who accomplished redemption as the Son, and who is raised by the Spirit, as the Son. Is this the ‘full identity’ of the life that was manifest? If it had only been ‘by water’ it would have been incomplete in its manifestation. The death of Christ was the greatest manifestation of the life of the Son of God.The Christ to whom ‘the three’ bear witness, is the one whose identity is set forth in all three events, and the three events themselves describe who He is; the Son of God whose life perfectly pleased the Father, the Son of God whose perfect life was given in a redeeming sacrifice which achieved atonement and reconciliation, the Son of God who lives in the resurrection power of an endless life. The Son of God to whom ‘the three’ bear unanimous testimony is He whose perfect life pleased the Father, whose perfect life paid the ransom, and whose perfect life is continually manifested in the person and work of the Holy Spirit.This may seem to have run on from the original question, but I think it lends some support to the view that ‘born of water’ is a link with ‘water baptism’ rather than ritual cleansing. OK guys n gals, “destruction test” it!