Should She Preach? - Biblical Evangelism for Women.

D

dougr777 Sep 18, 2013

A new book is being written by a brother who is a street evangelist and brother in Christ, I have not read it since it is not published yet. I plan to read it when it's published so I fully understand the position the author speaks about.

There is a video he preached that was published online in August of 2013. I won't post the link here because of the forum rules, you can search for it on the internet.

The book is about "should women preach in the open air" I believe and his study of the word on this position.

There is a great move in the body of Christ to call women "pastor" and give them a title and a role in the body of Christ.

I talked with my pastor about this and he is of the belief that a women that is in a "governmental" (Authority) position in the church over men is not Biblical.

We left a church many years back because the senior pastor's wife was going to "co-pastor" with Him at the local body.

In love brothers and sisters what is the truth on this topic? Is it 'essential' doctrinally for a local church or is this another subtle deception of the enemy? Is a women supposed to be 100% of the time 'silent' or able to freely speak? even in the open air?

I'm looking for help understanding both sides of this so I can be a Berean on this topic personally. Thanks.

Doug

sermonindex Sep 18, 2013

Brother,

This is an important topic. In the underground Church in China there are more women then men in active ministry and in some cases shepherds of God's flock. Most are evangelists and apostles that build up the body of Christ and win souls to the Lord. Most of the head leadership from what I can tell is men so women do submit to men.

I see nothing wrong with sisters serving the Lord in teaching and preaching (prophesying) especially to the lost but as towards authority the men are given the greater authority in family and in the Church. Those women should always defer to men's authority where she can. This is biblical and right.

But God is raising up women in places where men have not obeyed God and therefore that is another exception to the rule for myself personally. It is simply healthy in a local assembly to allow times for sisters to prophesy but there should be more of a meek, quiet submission for sisters in general.

The Lord will bring balance to this as saints in the West are open to God's way and not a religious form that is devoid of God's power.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2013

Everyone in the Body has a role, no one has a title except the King of Kings. We are all brethren. Preaching to the lost is for every New Man in Christ, neither male nor female. If men won't preach, what's a girl to do if her Lord calls upon her? Many here on SI can name many women preachers held in high esteem by the Lord as He confirmed His word that they faithfully and boldly preached.

When did preaching the Gospel become "exercising authority over men"?

sermonindex Sep 18, 2013

The question was "should she preach?" or "should women preach in the open air?" Thats a bit vague really but if that means the gospel to anyone then the answer is yes why not. If that means being called pastor and taking authority over men in the church then the answer is no. If that means being called an apostle then the answer is no. If that means being under a woman from the male perspective then the answer is no. Would I submit to a woman in authority in the church? No never on any grounds at any time or in any place I will not in the name of Christ the Lord.

As for the rubbish about "whats a girl to do" go and get some intelligence. Wake up and smell the coffee. The writing is on the wall. If you think that the things men have done are bad wait until you have women in full leadership with no possibility to resist them. Then you will know what true wickedness is. Think I am joking? I am not. If you believe that men have been cruel of themselves wait until they are led by a woman. You will comprehend true Satanic cruelly in that hour. When the end of this age comes with all of its terror it will not be an age without women in authority over men. It will be the only age in history with women in authority over men. Get real and stop playing with words. Women do not and are not stepping into the places where men have failed to walk. It's a lie. They have rebelled, murdered our children from their womb by the millions, and they have rejected their God given role in life. The women who have today sweetly slipped into leadership authority have done so on the back of murder and rebellion.

So what is there to do now then? The answer is nothing! It is already too late. I have washed my hands of all rebellion of men and women regardless. I will have nothing to do with it whatsoever. That is the end of it for me. When the hour comes I will curse it unto death and then go the way appointed to me.

Just for anyone who wants to be contentious with me I am speaking about women in positions of governmental authority in the churches. I am not speaking about women in authority in secular government or educational establishments. I am speaking about my attitude in the churches including China or any other place. If we truly believe that the mess we are in now is a reflection of God's will we have entered into madness.

K

KingJimmy Sep 18, 2013

A question that is never asked: Should women be allowed to sing? Not even the most legalistic authoritarian Presbyterian or Baptist will say no. Which in my opinion shows the log in their own theological eye. People will object to a woman preaching in Sunday school, in a classroom, and on a street corner. But they will not object to her bringing the word in song, which is arguably one of the greatest methods of preaching possible.

If you are going to argue women should be silent then ban them from singing in your choirs too. Otherwise you sound silly. You'll make an exception for that based on some contrived "governmental" theological mumbo jumbo that somebody contrived hundreds of years ago and others without an iota of revelation have blindly parroted. All the mean while you'll ban a woman from preaching open air while the world goes to hell in silence. Our Lord once talked about how the Sabbath was created for man, and not man for the Sabbath. How much more then has a woman been created for man!

Let the women preach!

E

enid Sep 18, 2013

Matthew 7:22, "Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"

In verse 23 we read that the Lord will tell them to depart,
for they are practicing lawlessness.

So, rather than appeal to emotion, experience, or opinion, let's look at what the scriptures say.

1 Timothy 2:11,"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.

Verse 12, "And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."

This next scripture is for everyone.

1 Samuel 15:22,"...behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams.

Verse 23, For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry..."

Was that only for King Saul?

How many, who are doing what seems godly, are on their way to hell, because they are pleasing themselves rather than God?

K

KingJimmy Sep 18, 2013

You can quote those verses just fine. But when you look at all the data of Scripture you'll find that there were female apostles, prophets, and pastors. So if we are to begin to have understanding of what Paul said in regard to women being silent, we need to understand it in the greater context of Paul and the apostles approving of women who were not always silent. Indeed, they were vocal leaders and held up as examples.

If an ox falls into a pit on the Sabbath, what would you do?

sermonindex Sep 18, 2013

1 Samuel 15:22,"…behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams.
Verse 23, For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry…" Enid

I was just listening to a rabbi speaking on this very verse when you posted. He shared concerning Saul and the context of Samuel's words to Saul but drew one very important understanding about rebellion. In this instance rebellion of Saul was disobedience to a direct commandment. Albeit it is one of the most difficult commandments ever issued in the Scriptures it was nevertheless a commandment. Saul's rebellion that day in preserving the life of a king ensured that this line of worldly rebellion and continuous attacks on Israel would not be brought to an end until after the return of Judah from Babylon, at the time of the re-building of the temple. Imagine that. One disobedient man and nearly one thousand years of consequences!

Today we have weak minded men claiming that sisters can and ought to teach in the churches. This is so in defiance of the Scripture that to assert anything other is itself rebellion. The consequences of this will be for a thousand years as well. The verse you quote regarding the rejection of the Lord of those who have rebelled is a rejection from the millennial kingdom itself. We may not be able to believe this, but it has been said regardless. The warnings were all to much of a stumbling block themselves in the past and those who so warned and themselves caused stumbling had better be ready for rejection as well unless they repent. Nevertheless you cannot change the Scriptures. There were however many sound and reasonable warnings given over the past 400 years all on record and all to be comprehended if we have a mind to it.

Sadly the bitterness of experience of many women has been itself the root of rebellion. Whist the weak mindedness of many men in failing to both comprehend the bitterness as well the rebellion resulting from it has laid an authoritative basis for its continuance, the underlying commandment is unchanged. Now it is open, brazen and wicked. It is Satan as an angel of light and its end will be beyond anything we can comprehend. In 30 years in the church not one sister has ever attempted to take authority over me. In the same period I have seen destruction and devastation in every part of the UK brought about by weak minded men allowing sisters who are themselves bitter, with experience or political thinking to exercise authority as Mrs Pastor. Now it is becoming Mrs Elder. Qualifications devised in the corrupt imagination of men and women serving Satan more than they can imagine is sheer foolishness at best and open rebellion in many instances.

If you think that the gift of prophecy is always innocently ascribed or else exercised then you also fail to comprehend that the gift is within the grasp of the recipient. It is not a jaw clenching gift to speak without participation as though the body itself has become some mechanical devise. It is a gift which when exercised in a root of bitterness through pride and rebellion is more fully witchcraft than the flesh itself is capable off. As one pastor said to me 30 years ago when I asked why he was allowing a sister to exercise authority over all the male youth of the church, "it is because she is submitting to me and therefore she is not in rebellion". So be it I said. Now that same church is given over to complete foolishness and is virtually apostate. The sister has no husband. Their first born was taken and the husband is apostate. Wise up brethren.

E

enid Sep 18, 2013

Its obvious this is going to be one of those 'hot' topics that people gravitate toward, because of the controversy it involves.

The fact that it involves controversy should speak for itself.

A woman should not preach, according to the scriptures.

When opinion, emotions and experience try to supersede the word of God, well, it speaks for itself.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, Jesus tells us. But these petty, useless arguments ensue, because people suppose they know better than God.

Enough.

EDIT: By the way, In Matthew 28, when Jesus gave the 11 the so called Great Commission, how many women were present?

K

KingJimmy Sep 18, 2013

Accusing people of rebellion here isn't much different than when the Pharisees saw Jesus and his disciples walking through a grain field and eating from the crop. Such was indeed, a violation of the sabbath command at a technical level. But then the Lord reminded the Pharisees of how the priest gave David bread from the temple, even though it wasn't lawful for him to do so. Jesus argued that they didn't violate the Sabbath because a higher principle was being invoked than that of the Sabbath commandment.

Let's not speak nonsense breathren. Let's rightly divide the entire word of God.

Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

"Junias" is a female name in the Greek. She is regarded as "oustanding among the apostles." That is, she is an oustanding apostle.

Acts 21:9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who were prophetesses.

Obviously, these women were speaking. They were not silent.

2 John 1:1 The elder to the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth,

John's 2nd epistle was written to a woman, that whoever exactly she was, it is apparent that he wrote to her as one who was a leader within the church, and had her own house church (the only type they had back then). She was discipling a group of people and providing regular instruction to a body of believers. She was to "watch" over them as her children, and to be careful about teaching the type of teaching that was allowed into their circle.

So, before we get carried away with nonsensical labels and prejoratives and dogmas, let's look at the entire word of God and try to make sense of everything. Whatever Paul said about women being silent and not having authority over men must be understood in the entire context of Scripture. We cannot ignore these Scriptures.

D

dougr777 Sep 18, 2013

I know this is a "hot topic" in the body of Christ, but one that needs to be discussed. Please remember the SI Community Guiding Principles when talking.

I only brought up this topic because a brother is writing a book and publishing this topic and I'm sure it will bring up alot of emotions. The author already wrote and said that many people have emailed harsh words to him via email, let's not divide over this topic, but let's be good Bereans of the word of God. The whole word of God. Let's not just pick one verse to support our position.

Why does God have in scriptures women who did great things for God when they opened their mouth and acted and served their Lord? If God did not want to give us examples of women who prophesied, or spoke or prayed or served God, then HE should have left those examples out, but he didn't'.

God didn't give us examples of women governing over men, but He did give us examples of women speaking for God.

In all experience, the problem here is men are just not leading in the church and in the families and women are waiting.

Why does God then that "women are to be silent?" What is the context here?

sermonindex Sep 18, 2013

Acts 1:14
These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the WOMEN, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

Acts 3:3
And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.

Was the Holy Spirit being gender specific in giving the gift of tongues? If you say the gift of tongues was given only to men then you will have an issue with the next verse.

Acts 2:18
Even on my bondslaves, both MEN and WOMEN, I will in those days pour forth my Spirit. And they shall prophesy. (that is preach)

Acts 2:8,11
And how is it we each hear them in our in our own language to which we born.......we hear them in our own tongue speaking of the mighty deeds of God.

Saints I believe the OP posed the question can sisters preach in the open air? Can sisters preach the gospel to the lost? I do not believe the OP was addressing the issue of preaching in the "governmental" authority of the church. If this distiction cannot be made then this thread is going to have done confusion.

It would appear based on the verses from Acts 2 women can preach to the lost in the open air. And the context would probably suggest they were preaching in the open air.

If someone is going to dispute tbis then they had better be prepared to explain away Acts 2:18

Please note I am addressing the issue of women evangelist. Women preaching to the lost. Women going into missions. I do not see scripture forbidding this. The issue of women preaching or teaching in the church should be a separate thread.

Someone implied the Great Comission was given only to men because we have no evidence women were present. The text does not say either way. Only the Apostles were to go and make disciples of all nations. Is this forum prepared to show that this comission is not binding on every man and woman. Indeed some Calvinist argue this commission was only given to the Apostles and has no bearing on the believer today. I say chapter and verse please. For we are called to be witnesses, martyres if you will for Christ. And this means men and women.

Again the OP is asking can sisters evangelize and preach the gospel. From the evidence of scripture "yes" they can.

If you say no. Then this forum needs to pull out everything by Corrie Ten Boon and Jackie Pullenger. I also ask, is anyone prepared to say Elisabeth Elliot was disobeying God when she went to preach the gospel to those Indians who martyred her husband? Be careful in answering that last question.

Bearmaster.

Caps are for emphasis only. Verses are from the NASB Update.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2013

I appreciated your comments Greg, thanks for being open to the Lord and His leading. "Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives,when they see your respectful and pure conduct."

The husband should be spiritual and not carnal. I have failed as a husband in this area in too many ways to count, by being carnal. Christ is our example as a perfect husband and He laid down His life for His bride (i.e., this is the betrothal period too), He ALWAYS did the will of the Father and that what He SAW the Father doing, was meek and lowly in heart, had authority from above which was earned through suffering (i.e., Jesus authority was not positional, but spiritual). This is what I/we need as husbands and since there is no marriage in heaven other than between Christ and His Bride; and since Christ is the Head and is using women in the West to do His perfect will... Yes, women are used by God to teach and preach with the Holy Spirit.

May I learned from the Father and may He use our faithful sisters, who are obedient in deed and truth to His perfect will, break and humble me/us until we are expressing the true nature of Christ in this dark hour and preserving the unity of the Spirit in the bind of peace.

Lord have mercy on me a sinner! -Kenneth

S

Solomon101 Sep 18, 2013

A question must first be answered by some folks to ever resolve this issue in their minds (imho)

The question is this:

Exactly and specifically how are you defining "prophesy" as it occurs in scripture?

I'll hang up and listen to your response.

K

KingJimmy Sep 18, 2013

That will all depend on your views as to whether or not certain spiritual gifts are still in operation anymore. And it has been my experience that those who take very restrictive views of women in ministry beleive the gift of prophesy has partially or entirely ceased, or has been highly modified.

I for one believe we still live in "Bible days" and "the days of the apostles." I believe all the gifts of the Holy Spirit that were available to them are available to us. And in my opinion, to say otherwise involves teaching something that the apostles never taught, and involves a highly conjectured system of theology.

To say that we are not in "Bible days" involves doing a great disservice to sound Biblical theology that looked at the coming, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ and the outpouring of the Spirit as an entirely new age in the history of mankind. Things changed once and forever, and the age we live in now will remain the same until Christ returns.

To say the gifts of the Spirit faded away with the deaths of the apostles and/or their immediate successors leaves me asking one question: What in the heavens changed, or did Christ do that altered the age He inaggurated. Why would the gifts in all their fullness cease to be needed after such a short time?

I find answers like "Well, because we have a completed New Testament now" to be very shallow reasoning and not well thought out, not to mention the complete lack of evidence in the New Testament itself that teaches such a thing.

S

Solomon101 Sep 18, 2013

KingJimmy -

I certainly understand, and agree with you, that a persons definition of prophesy will depend on several things. Obviously the ones you mentioned would factor heavily into it. However, many of them go well beyond the scope of what I am driving at.

As for you is it then fair to say that your definition/understanding of "prophesy" would be something like-

Prophesy is a supernatural utterance in a known language as inspired by the Holy Spirit that may, or may not, involve a forth telling of future events.

Fair enough?

If so then one for that definition. Others please add your definition whether similar or different.

PS. I am not on the site very often. However, I have not seen you post in a long time....maybe 2 years? It appears evident to me that you have matured much over whatever time frame it has been. Thanks for responding Bro.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2013

Soloman I will not attempt to define prophesy but will describe one aspect of how it was used in Acts 2.

Acts 2:11 says that those who were baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:3) were speaking of the mighty deeds of God. This would be prophesying or testifying of the Lord Jesus Christ and his deeds.

The implication that women were involved in declaring the mighty deeds of God is quoted by Peter out of Joel. Being that in the last days God was pouring out His Spirit on nen and women. And they would prophesy. My take they, male and female, would testify and preach Jesus.

My thoughts.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2013

There were about 120 brothers and sisters gathered together in the upper room This is established in Acts 1:14-15. So here are some questions to chew on.

In Acts 2:3 when the Holy Spirit came to rest on each one. Who was being baptized? All 120 or just the 12 Apostles. If you say just the !2.Apostles then a case can be made for men evangelist only. However this would do violence to the text and there is still Acts 2-18 to deal with.

Just trying to muddy up the wsters and provoke some thought being the resident heretic from the bear cave.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2013

1 Timothy 2:11,"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.

Verse 12, "And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."

I am glad the sister quoted these verses. I noticed in both of them that "submission" is in the first verse and "authority" is in the second verse.

In another verse in 1 Corinthians women are allowed to prophesy in the local church meeting. I believe sisters can share the scriptures as prophesying but must be under the authority of brothers. To not be under the authority of brothers who are anointed to lead is against God's ways.

God choose 12 men not women to be apostles. This is God's way. The man is always the head of the home. Never the woman.

There were not women apostles though some try and argue this with a few names in scripture and early church history. When there was a women "leader" in scripture it was a time of apostasy in Judges: Deborah.

But there are times when men are not anointed for leadership and in these cases God has raised up women leaders for a season or longer.

H

havok20x Sep 18, 2013

I am really surprised by this discussion.

Go read acts chapter 18. Seriously, go read it.

Who was evangelizing to Apollos? Was it not Priscilla AND Aquilla? Preaching the Gospel is EVERYONE's job, and this issue should NOT be confused with church leadership. Women were always very prominent in ministry for the Lord. Go read the ends of Paul's Epistles and John's epistles. Look at how many women were honored by those men. Women, of course, have a place in ministry.

However, without getting into a debate about biblical church structure, Biblical eldership belongs to men. Go read 1 Timothy 2. Now go read Titus 2. Now go read 1 corinthians 14. I understand that is a lot of reading, but you need context. It'll be good for you.

Older women are allowed to teach--they are allowed to teach younger women. But this isn't about just teaching in a church. This is about outside of a meeting place. Older women, who walk with the Lord should teach the younger women how they ought to act--outside the church. How often does this even happen? Almost never. Men are just as guilty. The entire summation of teaching is generally imprisoned to the church building. There is a deeper problem here than whether or not women (and for that matter men) should teach in church. If you want to really be biblical, instruction better be happening outside of the church as well.

We do this with children, each other, and lost people. Teaching them generally happens within the church building. We suffer as a body because of it.

My point is this: If anyone is going to say that women should be not teach in the church (which I believe is biblical), then you better also provide a way for the older women to teach the younger women outside of church (which is biblical). Husbands/Fathers, you had better be instructing your wives/daughters outside of the church building. The failure isn't that women teach in church. The failure is that we have made the church bulding the ONLY place available for them to fulfill their God-given duties.