losing my faith

Brother, have you discussed this with your church leadership? Do you have a group of brothers that you can meet with and discuss these things?

You know, the old Methodists used to get together weekly in small groups called class meetings and discuss the practical matters of walking out the Christian life. The emphasis of these meetings was not lecturing or preaching but rather on present and personal growth. In such an environment you may be instructed and encouraged by others who go through the same struggles. It seems that such a gathering may be beneficial to you, perhaps you could discuss this with your pastor?

In Christ,

Ron

As I read your post I weep and pray for you. I am, perhaps, not the most qualified to answer this question nevertheless in this case I will share. The words I will say have no doubt been shared with you before. Please do not take them as flippant, or an attempt at an easy answer, or an effort to minimize your pain. I believe there is hope for you. As you have written you are seeking Christ in every way you know. Your heart has been broken and according to this and previous testimony you have walked in repentance and obedience according to the light that you have, however dim it may seem. According to the Word which is established forever in heaven you will have what you have what you seek. Now, according to Luke 18 "God will avenge his elect which cry day and night to him though He bears long with them." The whole reason the parable was given is found in the first verse "that men ought always to pray and not faint." It seems that God has promised to answer the persistent petetion, however, it will be in his time. Again this may seem like pouring salt in the wound, after all for 4 years you have prayed, sought, and fought for your faith but in fact this is just the circumstance that this portion ws written for. To remind those seekers that God is not unjust nor uncaring but allowing true faith, not based on feelings but love, to mature. To use the illustration of the refiner's fire. You are the gold being purified and it is the refiner,not the gold, that determines when the process is done. This process is just what it sounds like,painful agonizing even, and that can be seen in your posts. I personally have heated metal and know that as it heats it groans and creaks from the changes taking place but if not taken to the place of purifying the dross it becomes brittle and worthless so the heat is turned higher until that perfect tempreature is reached when the groaning ceases and it is not only malleable but, when slowly brought to cool it is stronger than it ever would have been had the thing not been fired. You are groaning and rightfully so but the question of losing your faith is the same asked of Jesus. Will he find faith on the earth? Will you persist until He deems you complete? What makes you doubt? Is it the length of the struggle? Is it the constant barrage of attacks? Is it that God does not draw near in an emotional or manifest way? I do not know and will not try to guess but these all seem plausable. In any case the Word still stands whether you doubt it or not. A preacher at Times Square church, Brother Wilkerson or Conlon said in a sermon, concerning the Word, that we are not called to understand it only believe it. Smith Wigglesworth had as his motto in life "only believe." Intellectually this is difficult, to surrender reasoning to faith, but it is sometimes necessary to get beyond our own timelines and deadlines and into the eternal plans of the Lord. Your struggle has been long and I pray for an end, in God's time. Until then I pray that you will have grace and the strength to stand and that your faith will remain intact. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding... and remember in all things God is in control. Your brother in Christ

Brother, your not alone, I think if most here were completely honest, we have all been in your shoes. It's not easy living for the Lord in such a dead world, you said something that caught my attention, "I have doubted before, but my heart always still believed" I can relate so much. I don't want to make this thread about me, its not about me, so I am just saying this to let you know to hang in there. I went through a divorce after 38 years in 09 "she was on some powerful prescription drugs and filed" she passed this past year of a overdose, then on 2-24-13 of this year my 19 year old son took his life. Brother I am a living testimony you can make it, no it's not easy, it's not easy at all, but it's worth it. I sometimes want to just go jump off the deep end, but God keeps telling me if you do I will catch you, see he won't even let me get away from him. We all have pains, some just handle them better than others and that's ok, God made us all different. The most powerful thing we have in our artillery to fight our battles in life is Prayer, and trust me it works! but on Gods timing. Yes I hate waiting, it's been 4 years for me since my battle started, I just feel as though I am at crossroads in my life,"bet you do also" but I am not chasing after the Lord, I don't have to he is right here by my side, he is my comforter, he knows me better than I do, he is helping me pick up the pieces one day at a time. Brother, I feel your pain, but remember, no matter how much you might think you are falling away from Him, he is always there to catch us, we are the kind of folks God drops everything for, if we can just keep trusting him. Going to Church, reading your Bible, seeking him is always good, but he knows our hearts, he knows sometimes we just want to give up, get alone with Him, just talk to him as you would your on father. I know most that have not been in our shoes won't understand this, but sometimes we can "over seek him" been there done that, it just made things worse, so I just let it all go, Church, Reading my Bible, and just focused on Him alone, and I grew closer to Him than I have ever have been in my life. Remember, were all as dirty rags, all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags. Kick back Brother! he is right there with you, right by your side, you might think your falling away, but you can't he won't let you, I could write you a book on wanting to get away from God, but you can't and you know it, he loves you to much, and you love him to much.
God Bless Brother!
Your Not Alone!

The very fact that you are on-goingly concerned about "losing your faith" is actually the greatest evidence that you haven't. You won't lose your faith unless God decrees it; for He alone is the Author of it, not you. Before God, I can tell you I have never known Him to lose any of His own children - and it can be demonstrated from scripture that those who once professed faith in Christ but who are now apostate have "gone out" for the sake of exposure that they were never truly Christ's to begin with (I John 2:19).

The sons and daughters of Satan are left in darkness, but God punishes His own wayward sons and daughters severely, often to the point of absolute misery and despair, but He does not give up on them. There would be no hope for any of us if that were the case. Where would the cut-off point be? How long would you have to go without prayer, without Bible study and fellowship before God finally severs the lifeline? Nobody can answer that question.

It is not your hold on God that saves you, but His on you. If it were dependant on your responsibility to clench your teeth and not your "lose faith", you would have plenty to boast of once you reach heaven's golden shoreline. You could boast for all eternity of how you held on to God while on earth and postulate that all the unfortunate "ex-children" suffering in hell lost their faith because their hold wasn't as stalwart as yours.

Dear friend, if you are God's own, He will deal very strictly with you. You will not be afforded prolonged pleasure in sin; your screaming conscience will prosecute you to no end. God may let you wander for years and years before He pulls you back. It may come via some tragedy, the death of a loved one, financial ruin. He knows when to prick the balloon of our self-sufficiency and bring us reeling back home to repentance.

You know there is always that gnawing awareness of God within you, no matter how low you go, no matter how deep and dark the night. Prior to your adoption in God's family, there was no awareness at all in you - just a void. Guilt and sorrow now fill that void, where joy once occupied. But, notice, the void is still filled, even if it is with God's rod. I would rather have God's rod on my back than Satan's kiss on my cheek.

God's compassion upon you, His child, is infinitely more than you can comprehend, for you are but a visceral being, emotional, logically-geared and subject to interpreting spiritual signals through the corrupt filter of the flesh. This "dark" filter is like the glass Paul makes an analogy to in scripture. Satan is ever on standby to futher obfuscate the truth of God's compassion, for Satan knows that if he can get you to think you will "lose your faith" if you don't do the right things to please God, you will never learn to see God as your Father in eternal sonship, but rather as a celestial magistrate with an ambivalent, conditional and performance-based attitude toward the preservation of your salvation.

A wonderful book I can recommend is Octavius Winslow's "Personal Declension and Revival of Religion in the Soul". It is a little-known gem, full of divine wisdom, encouragement and outstanding scriptural exegesis relating to the subject of backsliding and the subsequent restoration of the backslider.

http://www.preachtheword.com/bookstore/declension.pdf

Brother Paul

Friend, only God truly knows whether or not you are truly born again, and He exhorts us in His Word to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. If you have not listened to it I would highly recommend Paul Washer's message "Examine Yourself" found here on SI.

There are only two very real possibilities concerning your situation. Either you are a true believer struggling with certain areas of sin in your life and God is dealing with you, or you are not saved but deceived and going through the motions of a false profession of faith. I don't mean to sound harsh but I believe that's the honest truth in accordance with His Word.

God commands and invites all of us to come to Him in sincerity and humility, to repent and believe in Christ. And He promises all of His children full assurance of their salvation as they abide in Him by faith. Will be praying for you. God bless.

Oracio wrote:

"There are only two very real possibilities concerning your situation. Either you are a true believer struggling with certain areas of sin in your life and God is dealing with you,"

I don't think being in the "desert" necessarily has to have anything to do with being disciplined for some struggle with sin. I think a true Christian who is not struggling with sin can be in the desert as well. God may be using it as a trial, but it doesn't mean it is a punishment.

I think we must be careful about making such blanket pronouncements. The original poster did not say he was struggling with sin and that that is the reason for his trial. If he had said so, it would be a different story.

Two quotes from Oswald Chambers:

"Patience is more than endurance. A saint's life is in the hands of God like a bow and arrow in the hands of an archer. God is aiming at something the saint cannot see, and He stretches and strains, and every now and again the saint says--'I cannot stand anymore.' God does not heed, He goes on stretching till His purpose is in sight, then He lets fly. Trust yourself in God's hands. Maintain your relationship to Jesus Christ by the patience of faith. 'Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him.”

"At times God puts us through the discipline of darkness to teach us to heed Him. Song birds are taught to sing in the dark, and we are put into the shadow of God's hand until we learn to hear Him...Watch where God puts you into darkness, and when you are there keep your mouth shut. Are you in the dark just now in your circumstances, or in your life with God? Then remain quiet...When you are in the dark, listen, and God will give you a very precious message for someone else when you get into the light.”

One thing I have found when I am in the "valley" is to try to take the inward focus off myself and try to get out and serve others. Sometimes by doing what Jesus tells us to do, we find that our faith really is there.

We don't prove our faith in God by intellectual assent; our faith is proved by doing what He says.

by bible4life: I really have sought the Lord, but it seems my heart is only getting worse and more hard. Over the past month or two my faith in Christ has got to the point where i am just doubting him completely and his word, i have doubted before, but my heart always still believed, but now it is like i am really doubting now in my heart not just in my mind. I see myself just getting worse. I mean how much can someone get prayed for and seek God on his own and everything still get worse. I just dont understand. Is their any hope for me?

You need to pick up a little book called "The practice of the Presence of God" by Brother Lawrence, it is a very little booklet really and sells for 2 or 3 dollars, if you do not have the money let me know and I'll send you a copy this week.
Until you get that booklet just know that Paul told Timothy to be instant in season and out of season, we have those times. Let me know if you need that booklet.

TMK wrote:

"I don't think being in the "desert" necessarily has to have anything to do with being disciplined for some struggle with sin. I think a true Christian who is not struggling with sin can be in the desert as well. God may be using it as a trial, but it doesn't mean it is a punishment.

I think we must be careful about making such blanket pronouncements. The original poster did not say he was struggling with sin and that that is the reason for his trial. If he had said so, it would be a different story."

Friend, I will post bible4life's words here again:

"It has now been about 4 years or so since i began to notice my heart was getting hardened towards the Lord and that i no longer was feeling the Holy Spirit lead me anymore. This past year or two i have sought God like i never have before whether its is prayer, reading his word, attending church, etc. I really have sought the Lord, but it seems my heart is only getting worse and more hard. Over the past month or two my faith in Christ has got to the point where i am just doubting him completely and his word, i have doubted before, but my heart always still believed, but now it is like i am really doubting now in my heart not just in my mind. I see myself just getting worse."

One thing is for sure, he admits to struggling with deep unbelief toward God and a hardness of heart toward Him which is getting worse and worse.

I have read other posts from him in the past over the years which indicate a similar thing, a deep struggle with the world the flesh and the devil, being bound by many Satanic attacks and strongholds.

Again, either he is a child of God being disciplined (as we all get disciplined in some way or another), or he is deceived. If he is deceived, smooth words of comfort will not help, they will only help harden and deceive him more in a false assurance, and his blood will God require at our hands.

In reading your post there is one verse that comes to my mind. Bro. Paul tells us in Heb.12:1: "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."

I do not know you personally, but am wondering whether you are arguing with God about something and justifying what you are doing/want to do but God is disapproving. This will place barriers in ones walk with the LORD.

Just a thought.

Hope you will find the peace you yearn for.

ginnyrose

Dear brother John,

You say: "Over the past month or two my faith in Christ has got to the point where i am just doubting him completely and his word, i have doubted before, but my heart always still believed, but now it is like i am really doubting now in my heart not just in my mind."

The word of the Lord for you is 2 Cor. 10:3-5

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

If you are having thoughts that cast into doubt the word of God you must forcefully reject such thoughts! Confess out loud the exact opposite of your doubt and that which is in agreement with the word of God. After reading your pleas on this forum for help with backsliding I tend to think that you are easily swayed by feelings. That is not faith. Faith does not look to feelings or outward circumstances. In fact, faith often stands in direct opposition to feelings and outward circumstances. Also, don't put a time limit on God to work. I've known some people who got an answer to prayer immediately after saying amen and lifting their head and opening their eyes. For each such instance there are several thousand others who had to hold on in faith before they got their breakthrough. Don't despair. But I do want you to confess who you are in Christ. Your behavior is not the basis for your identity. Your identity determines your behavior. You must believe and confess your identity in Christ in order to see a change in your behavior. And I don't mean merely giving mental assent to a teaching or just saying the words like a spell. I mean believing and confessing who you are in Christ in spite of how you might feel or what past behavior is like. Stop being tossed to and fro by the Devil trying to tell you you're a failure. Believe and speak the word of God simply because it's God's word. And don't make faith into a work or struggle. True faith is child-like trust. Nothing complicated, just taking God at his word and resting in it. The devil wants you to think it is a big struggle to get free. It doesn't have to be. Read Bondage Breakers again.

Blessings. I'm praying for you.
TW

Hi bible4life, I was able to find another thread which you opened up back in July of this year. In that thread used4him posted the following:

"Dear Bible4life:

It is very hard to give advice when the details are very sketchy. I do not remember any of your other posts so forgive me if these questions are unneeded.

1. Have you made Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior? (Romans 10:9&10)
2. Are you getting fellowship with other born again believers who are walking with the Lord? (Hebrews 10:25)
3. Do you have any ongoing unconfessed sin that you are holding on to? (1 John 1:9)
4. Are you reading the bible and have a regular prayer time? (Hebrews 4:12)
5. Have you received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, and are you walking in that power that He promised to give us?(Acts 1:8)

If you answer no to any of these, then that gives the enemy an advantage to attack you. The choice to do these things is up to you, no one can do them for you."

"Hey, brother many of my posts seem sketchy to a lot it is probably because I have so much to say and background to my problems that I do not write on here which can make things kind of confusing for some and I am not the best at explaining things in writing. I have had many posts over the past 4 years on this site. I have never seemed to get much better and I think many on the site have grown tiresome of me, but I am tire of struggling to. But here I will respond to your questions.
1.I think its hard to say that for me, because I have tried believing and surrendering my life to him, but I don't have the power to make him Lord of my life and Savior.I had a born again experience in 2003 where Jesus healed me an my eyes and heart were opened to the truths of scripture and Jesus and I began to hear the Holy Spirit speak to me and convict me. During this time without much knowledge in the Christian life I fell into sexual sin for 3 and a half years without fully repenting of it until 2007 when I got married with her who is now my wife of 6 years. At the time I knew I had to stop living that way because the Lord allowed me to be tormented by evil spirits as I continued to live that lifestyle. But, when I got married until now it has seemed I have got closer to God then ever before in prayer and reading scripture and going to church and the things of God in general and I still have notice my heart continues to get hardened and that it seems my eyes seem to not see clearly like I use to, the closer I have got to God it seems the further He has got from me. You would think the opposite would happen, but with me I have only grown further away and my heart keeps getting worse it seems in wickedness and sin and at times I have grown to fall back into the world. Also I have confessed every sin known possible to me and even tried believing I was forgiven, but it still doesn't seem to change anything. I have a had a couple situations where the Lord has answered my prayer, but it just experiencing him like I use to, where I felt lead by his Holy Spirit and I didnt need anyone else to tell me anything but Him, I really was lead by Christ and was filled with his love and loved righteousness. I was Christ consciousness at all times everywhere I was at, and I was in prayer or in talking conversation with God throughout the day and I just felt this closeness to the Lord always. I was not scared of anything, but I have lost that faith I once had and it has seemed I been a lost puppy on this site and to every Christian around because I do not here from the Holy Spirit like I once did. I am not a liar and I am not deceiving anyone, but I am honestly someone who has sought God and have wept many times crying out to him all day some days and overcome by great fears and attacked constantly by demonic spirits for the past 6 years and I have had fears that overwhelmed me not knowing if God has left me forever and that I was going to spend an eternity separated from him. I have not been able to help my situation, for most it is not like this for everyone, but for me 6 years of struggling. I want to be delivered, but I haven't. To answer the other questions I have been attending church down the street for the past 10 months straight, only missed one sunday unwantingly. For the past year I would say I have read the scriptures probably almost everyday, maybe about 3/4 of the time I have read the word or some kind of Christian book. I have tried to keep daily devotions with the Lord reading scripture and prayer. I fellowship with believers over the phone daily with friends in Indiana and mostly at my church and sometimes with otthers brothers occasionally maybe one a month. I hope this helps"

There are a few things that came to mind from reading your post. You stated that you had a born again experience back in 2003. Yet you also stated that after that, for the next 3 and half years, you continued to live habitually in fornication without any repentance until 2007 when you got married. Based on that, it seems highly probable that you were not truly born again in 2003. I say that because although true believers may and do fall into sin at times, they cannot and do not make a practice of habitual, unrepentant sin; Eph.5:5-6 says, "For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6\tLet no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience."

You wrote, "I think its hard to say that for me, because I have tried believing and surrendering my life to him, but I don't have the power to make him Lord of my life and Savior."

Based on that it sounds like you may have never fully surrendered your heart and life to the Lord in repentance and faith in Christ.

You wrote, "I was Christ consciousness at all times everywhere I was at, and I was in prayer or in talking conversation with God throughout the day and I just felt this closeness to the Lord always. I was not scared of anything, but I have lost that faith I once had and it has seemed I been a lost puppy on this site and to every Christian around because I do not here from the Holy Spirit like I once did."

Friend, it is very possible to have a certain kind of powerful encounter and experience with God, without it being true conversion. That happens all the time unfortunately. I say that from experience, having had a false conversion myself many years ago. I know many others who have also had those kinds of experiences.

Like I stated before, I do not fully know your heart, only God does. But the best advice I can give you is to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. He offers His mercy to all and says He will by no means cast out any who come to Him. I will share a few scriptures which came to mind. God bless:

"For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: "I dwell in the high and holy place, With him who has a contrite and humble spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of the contrite ones."-Isa. 57:15

"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart-- These, O God, You will not despise."-Psalm 51:17

"But on this one will I look: On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, And who trembles at My word."-Isa.66:2

"Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful."-Prov.27:6

just-in
MrBillPro,
Thank you for your post. Wonderful, healing, hopeful words. God bless you, brother.

Thank you, sometimes in these situations, our personal testimonies are the best thing we can offer to help someone else. I know! I have been there done that, were you could preach me a hundred sermons, and quote me a thousand scriptures, but someones personal testimony encouraged me the most.Personal testimony is the most effective tool we possess, our testimony requires no scripture and no need to be a Bible scholar. Every one knows himself or herself better than anyone else, it simply requires that we share the knowledge of ourself. We share our personal relationship with Jesus, and the road we traveled to get there. People can argue/debate scripture and theologies all day, but they cannot argue/debate the valid facts of our own personal life!
God Bless!
Mr. Bill

bible4life, I'm glad to hear that you were not offended by my posts.

Regarding the passages you mentioned about final apostasy (which I believe is the same as the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) or the point of no return, I honestly do not believe you are at that point at all. I believe that someone who is at that point has no concern at all for their salvation.

But yes, it is something you will have to work out between you and God. Will continue to pray. God bless.

In bible4life's last post he says:

I kind FEEL as if the reason i am getting worse and not better is because I FEEL like i had my chance some time ago and i blew it living in sin the way i did and I FEEL because i did that the Holy Spirit is not coming back and the more i see myself seek God and i am ONLY GETTING WORSE MAKES ME TO BELIEVE that i am in the boat of those in second peter and hebrews ch. 6.

Words capitalized are emphasis by TW. He did not capitalize them in his original post.

Dear brother, again I want to show you that you are not rooted in God's truth concerning your salvation and position in Christ. You obviously are basing everything on your circumstances and experiences and the feelings that come from them. Now you feel as though God has abandoned and given up on you because you sinned. This is not conviction of the Holy Spirit. This is condemnation from Satan. The devil knows that the best way to separate a saint from God is to afflict his conscience. Don't take the bait. If you were really unrepentant, you would not be in distress about your relationship with God. You need to resist and cast down all thoughts of condemnation and "it's too late, I'm too bad for God" type thoughts! Otherwise it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Fear and despair is faith (but of a negative and bad outcome). It will be according to your faith. Stop looking at the past or your own goodness (or lack thereof). Christ himself has made us acceptable to God.

I see a need for salvation in your life. But the reason why you are tormented by Sin without any trace of victory could be much simpler than what you are thinking.

I personally believe that this is your problem. Are you honest about your condition? It is easy to be open in a forum with a fake name where no body knows who you are. But in reality are you covering your sins and acting holy? I am not saying you need to confess to everyone, but you should not act holy or perfect. The Pharisees have no hope of salvation period. Many times they came to Jesus and also believed in him and followed him. But never got saved. Why? Because they were not true about their condition. Are you giving an impression to your wife or Children that you are holy when you are being tormented? I would suggest to share with your closed ones that you are struggling. Do not need to say everything but at least you are struggling and you need prayers. I do it all the time when I find struggles in my life. My wife prays with me.

I don't want anyone to think anything more than what I am before God.