Christians need to learn from al Shabaab
Some thoughts on the Nairobi mall incident
That is demonstration not only of extreme evil but extreme faith
Extreme dedication
We Christians need to learn principles from al Shabaab
You cannot be lukewarm in faith for such actions
You must be very strong in your beliefs
What would happen if we Christians had such faith and dedication for Jesus and His cause to love the world?
Arthur, might good if you would educate us to what you are referring to.
Arthur - yes let us willing surrender and be conformed to Christ death.
Arthur,
I understand what you are trying to say......but very poor choice of role model and very poor taste!
I have NOTHING to learn from such blood thirsty, hate filled killers!
Interestingly the Apostle Paul when looking for examples of dedication never used any freedom fighter or terrorist in his writings.
no lukewarmness
ohhhhhhh.
everytime I come back to this forum, looking for some fruit, or a Word....I just leave more broken hearted than the time before.
you speak lies.
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.
Revelation 3:15
Some people seem to get offended so easy. The poster is using El Shabbob as only an example. They are very passionate about their belief. So passionate that they are putting legs on it and 'creating' something. ArthurRosh is simply saying if Christians put feet to their belief think of the things that would be set in motion.
Let me give some examples of what I think Arthur is saying. If you believe in prayer are you praying your heart out in the prayer closet? Are you doing times of fasting with it as well? Are you going out and doing some kind of witnessing? Are you going out and doing something to help your fellow man if even some decided to spit on you? Are you demonstrating the Love of God in your heart but sacrificing your time to help the elderly or maybe being a teacher of the bible? Or maybe even opening the door to pray with people in the city square?
The example of El Shabbob is only there for the extremist view albeit it in a negative way. Why get so touchy about it as to be offended. It isn't easy to offended me but I find when people get offended over silly nonsense it irks me inside.
John
read the testimony of CT Studd
Dear brothers and sisters,
We do need to see the great motivation of communist, cults and islam as a thing that should shame us. We have the truth, we have Jesus Christ who can change peoples hearts and have them go to eternity and we are not zealous, exciting, or spend time planning to get the free Gospel message out to people.
We do not fight against flesh and blood, we do not arm ourselves, we do not fight. We pray, we love, we share the Good News of the Gospel. We preach this glorious message. We share it through tracts and email and websites. Our message is the cure to such men as mentioned in the first post who are a harm to the world.
Eternity is soon, Christ is coming back. How much are we willing to take steps and time to share His Gospel and see people come to Jesus Christ to be saved for eternity?
I believe the brother is valid in his concerns over how we are lukewarm.
Christians need to learn from al ShabaabSome thoughts on the Nairobi mall incident
That is demonstration not only of extreme evil but extreme faith
Extreme dedication
We Christians need to learn principles from al Shabaab
You cannot be lukewarm in faith for such actions
You must be very strong in your beliefs
What would happen if we Christians had such faith and dedication for Jesus and His cause to love the world?
I suppose you are trying to use that example to describe how zealous Christians should be.
But, a Christian should be like Christ who always depended on the voice of His Father to lead Him each day. Jesus was zealous for the will of His Father and we are to be zealous for His will for us. Beyond that, we are not to tread. We are to stay in step with Him and many times He calls us to wait on Him. God is a God of timing.
I don't think I would call that extreme faith or even faith as I know faith. It certainly is extreme. It is not the kind of faith that Jesus has called me to.
The way that God works and does His will sometimes takes a long time to bring it to fruition not only in our life but others.
Jesus does not push Himself on people and neither does His church. He was a sheep led to the slaughter and so are we. It is as we are being "crushed" that the fragrance of Christ is then seen and experienced by others, not through mindless, loveless, Christ-devoid activity.
We should not be impressed with zealous, outward activity or the multitude of it. God is not.
Regarding lukewarmness, it has nothing to do with activity, but everything to do with our first love, Jesus.
Men will always be impressed with "glorious works", and we should not be taken in by them or condemned by them. If you love the Lord with all your heart, you have to always wait on His leading, because it is His program not yours. Stay put, wait on the Lord, until He gives you, your marching orders then zealously fulfill them.
The great motivation of communists or cults, is not what our motivation is. One motivation is from below the other is from above, one worketh by love the other by death. So, how can it shame us? We live by a different LIFE.
Personally I believe we can be motivated by others even unbelievers, but only in certain areas. For example, when I see shopkeepers working day and night to earn money, I get motivated to see whether I do the same for imperishable heavenly wealth. But it is easier to work day and night to earn money than to serve the living God, because Satan is not against those who love money but against those who love God.
It is easy to be a suicide bomber but difficult to be poured out like a drink offering for the Gospel.
There is an infamous letter written by a young communist to his girl fried regarding his communist ideas and how he cannot afford to waste time on love. We can use this to be motivated to give up everything for Christ, whom we know is the truth and only way of life. But the bottom line is it is easy to be a communist and die but difficult to carry the cross and follow Jesus.
RE: ///But the bottom line is it is easy to be a communist and die but difficult to carry the cross and follow Jesus.///
Just some thoughts as I read this : Jesus says my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The way of Jesus might indeed causes us to be persecuted and lose everything including our lives , but Jesus says of this way that his "yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
If it is difficult, it is because we make it that way, The narrow path is a path of rest.
We must becareful that we do not decieve ourselves in believing that we earn our salvation by a Mahatma Gandhi style asceticism.
Most religions : bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
The Bible teaches us that God Loves us and that we are Gods Children by embracing that undeserved Love, and by embracing this reality our hearts are made right and we become free to do the will of God.
All false religions teach that God hates us, and that we need to appease or earn his acceptance by asceticism.
Cain Labored to be accepted by God, he was cast out because of the proud heart his labor produced.
Abel rested in Gods goodness, and from that heart he offered an exceptable offering from a heart of gratitude.
May God give us hearts of Love and gratitude.
Philippians 4:8
Finally, bretheren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.
Phillipians 4:9
The things you have learned and recieved and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.
Hebrews 13:7
Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you, and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.
Dear saints are there not enough godly examples we can look to for encouragement to be zealous in our faith? As one brother posted earlier I hardly think Islamic extremists are good role models on being zealous for the things of Christ. That is almost like looking to Satan on instruction of how to live for Christ.
A better source for encouragement in zeal in living for Christ would be Extreme Devotion put out by Voice of the Martyrs. These are stories of persecuted saints who lived out extreme devoted lives for Christ that brought them to martyrdom. Then there is Foxes Book of Martyrs or Martyrs Mirror. There is the New Testament itself. For more inspirational then El Shabab or Al Queda.
In preparation for Persecution Watch I read profiles of what Islamic extremist have done to our brothers and sisters. Far from being inspired or learning from the extremist my heart breaks. This is evil in its rawest form.
But my heart is ever more encouraged to be like those precious saints who will not deny Christ their Lord, even in the face of death. Dear brethren, you will be far more encouraged by the persecuted in N. Korea or Eritrea then El Shabab.
Let the persecuted be your role model. Not Islamic extremists.
Blaine Scogin
Persecution Watch
Just some thoughts as I read this : Jesus says my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.The way of Jesus might indeed causes us to be persecuted and lose everything including our lives , but Jesus says of this way that his "yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
I am well aware of this scripture from Matt 11:28. No yoke is easy. It retains you from going in your own direction. In the scripture Jesus says it is easy because he takes the greater burden by being in the other side of yoke. Which is comparatively easier than carrying it all alone.
Still to be under his yoke one needs to humble himself and become empty. There will be corrections in every wrong step that you take, humility is needed to walk with Christ.
If you see a cow which has carried a yoke, its neck portion where the yoke rested would have become numb with huge callus. Till the Callus develops it will be huge pain to the cow no matter how much the yoke is carried from other end. Everytime the yoke moves up and down its neck will be painful.
The callus is the picture of humility that Jesus asks to learn from him. Once that comes, the yoke will become easy.
All false religions teach that God hates us, and that we need to appease or earn his acceptance by asceticism.
No way, I was a Hindu till 25 years of my life and I know what it teaches. I was more devote than most of the Hindus. I was never taught that God hates me. Nor does any Hindu believe that.
Deep in my conscience I knew that God was not happy with my life. Which is true. And I tried to please him by doing Good, which had no effect on my sinful behaviors.
See there might be so many fake $100 bill that were printed by men instead of Government and the fake might look like real $100 bill. How stupid will government be if it tried to change or cancel all $100 bills because there are fake bills out there? This is how it is if someone does not preach the full gospel and take only one part fearing that it resembles fake religions.
I have read that there was an ancient religion that believed that a Sun God had a sun and he died and rose from dead etc. So because it believes in resurrection, will someone stop believing in it? Let those who have ears listen.
I am well aware of this scripture from Matt 11:28. No yoke is easy. It retains you from going in your own direction.
Yes, but if we come into agreement with the Lord and go into His direction (in step with Him), then His yoke is easy, is it not?
In the scripture Jesus says it is easy because he takes the greater burden by being in the other side of yoke.
The scriptures say that He takes all of our burdens. What part of any burden can we afford not to cast upon Him?
Which is comparatively easier than carrying it all alone.
This is an impossibility. No one can walk the Christian walk without Christ. There is no such thing regarding carrying any burden alone.
The callus is the picture of humility that Jesus asks to learn from him. Once that comes, the yoke will become easy.
You say it is not easy then it is easy. Why do we need extra words? What Jesus says is sufficient. His yoke is easy. It is for us to find out why His yoke is easy, through our own experience, and we if we find it difficult, Jesus will be faithful to tell us why.
Some of your explanation is ok, but overall, you are posting a conflicted and confused, explanation.
When I first read that "my yoke is easy", I determined to seek the Lord and find out why, because all of His promises are yes and amen and so I had no disagreement with Him but at the time it was not my experience that "His yoke was easy". But that was not His fault. Let God be true and every man a liar. It was for me to find out was I truly yoked up with Him and if I was, was I struggling against His will (yoke)?
He has kept me from callouses, because He anoints my head with oil.
You say it is not easy then it is easy. Why do we need extra words? What Jesus says is sufficient. His yoke is easy. It is for us to find out why His yoke is easy, through our own experience, and we if we find it difficult, Jesus will be faithful to tell us why.
I said first itself that the yoke is easy for those who are humble. For those who are broken and are being broken. But till you are broken and humble, it will never be easy.
Let me break it down even further into steps,
1. come to me I WILL give you REST
2. take MY YOKE upon YOU
3. lean from me to be humble
4. My yoke is easy
If a person misses step 3, it will never be easy. Is it clear? Jesus spoke in the exact order, he could have told the yoke is easy before asking to learn from him. But he did not. He will not give fake promises.
I never rebel with God's word, I take him at his word. As far I see I was extremely consistent with all the picture I gave. The Lord speaks to me in pictures and I use it. I agree with the Lord when he says 'it is easy', I agree when he says 'strive to enter the narrow gate', I agree when he says 'those who do violence will inherit the kingdom'. I do not hold theologies that makes me accept one and deny another. Sadly more than 99% of born again Christians run away from certain verses.
For those who are used to only milk, solid food might taste harsh and indigestible, but that does not make Solid food useless.
This is an impossibility. No one can walk the Christian walk without Christ. There is no such thing regarding carrying any burden alone.
your word itself is contradicting, christian walk is to walk with Christ, how can someone do it alone? By carrying the whole burden them self I meant is living by law.
Acts 15:10-
Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Here Peter is talking about the Yoke of Law that his fathers nor disciples were able to bear.
The scriptures say that He takes all of our burdens. What part of any burden can we afford not to cast upon Him?
Where in the scripture did Jesus say I will take all your burden and you do not need to lift any thing? Even in Matt 11:28, immediately after rest, he says take my yoke. No one will put a yoke upon a cow to give it rest. In fact they will take the yoke out to give the cow a rest. Jesus ends by saying 'my burden is light'. Which means there is a burden even if it is light. Read the Scriptures carefully.
Adding something to God's promise is equal to removing something out of his promise. Sadly many do not see this and they are blinded.
Let us take the law of physics, you take a yoke and lift it all from one side and put the other side on another person. No matter how much you lift, there will still be some burden or pressure on the person on other side. I do not want to explain any further. This is solid food, not everyone can digest it.
Lets put this yoke topic to rest and discuss on the subject of this thread. I believe I explained enough. I don't have time to break the solid food anymore into smaller pieces!!!
Hi Sree,
I think you may have missed my point
Sree wrote : ///I am well aware of this scripture from Matt 11:28. No yoke is easy.///
No life is easy!
I was not trying to make a point about the Christian Life being easy as far as the flesh is concerned and that is why I included :in my post : /The way of Jesus might indeed causes us to be persecuted and lose everything including our lives/
The ease is in the Soul, its the rest that comes from abiding in the Fathers Love in which opens the door to do the Fathers will.
Sree wrote //Still to be under his yoke one needs to humble himself and become empty. There will be corrections in every wrong step that you take, humility is needed to walk with Christ.//
True humility is to believe and have faith in the Promises of God.
It is to imbrace Gods love for us, and in return to love God and our fellow man.
Faith is what is needed to walk with Christ not voluntary humility.
RE: ///I never rebel with God's word, I take him at his word. As far I see I was extremely consistent with all the picture I gave. The Lord speaks to me in pictures and I use it. I agree with the Lord when he says 'it is easy', I agree when he says 'strive to enter the narrow gate', I agree when he says 'those who do violence will inherit the kingdom'. I do not hold theologies that makes me accept one and deny another. Sadly more than 99% of born again Christians run away from certain verses.///
Edit: rephrase, :
See'r do you find anything wrong or disturbing with this paraghraph ?
"In acquiring the new wine, our battle is against sin. But in acquiring the new wineskin, our battle is against religious traditions that have annulled the word of God. And it is far more difficult for many to break free from the traditions of men than it is for them to break free from sin! But, men of violence alone will possess the kingdom of God (Matt. 11:12). Religious traditions cannot be removed apart from violent treatment." Zac Poonen
I suppose proud papa this is the saying which you may be taking exception to from which Sree quotes. The meaning is what follows from the same book by Zac Poonen.
"Jesus was crucified not because He preached against sin, but because He preached against religious traditions that had replaced God's word among the Jews (Mk. 7:1-13). He exposed the hypocrisy of religious leaders, the emptiness of their religious traditions and turned out of the temple those who made money in the name of religion. His zeal to purify God's house was what infuriated the religious leaders to ask for His crucifixion.
It is unlikely that people will demand our crucifixion, for preaching a message of `brokenness' and the new wine. But if you are determined to go on and proclaim the whole counsel of God that the new wine must now be put into new wineskins, you can expect the wrath of the religious hierarchy in every single denomination that there is in Christendom.
Why did Jesus say that the new wine could not be put into the old wineskin? Because the old wineskin could not stretch any more, and so would burst. The old wineskin was once useful - to put the old wine in - but it is of no use for the new wine.
The Jewish religious system - the old wineskin - was once ordained by God through Moses to contain the old wine. But once Jesus had come and established a new covenant, a new wineskin was needed. The old had to go. Jesus said that the old could not even be modified with the new patched on to it! That would tear the garment (Lk. 5:36).
We may think that, being Christians, we have got rid of the old Jewish wineskin and that we have a new wineskin in the Christian church. But if you look carefully at what you call your Christian assembly, you may be surprised to find a number of old-covenant characteristics in it.
Consider just three examples, although there are many others.
First of all, the Jews had a special tribe (the Levites) who were priests who did all the religious work. Not all Jews could be priests. Under the new covenant however, all believers are priests (1Pet. 2:5; Rev. 1:6). Although this is a truth held theoretically by most believers, it is actually practised by very few. Almost every group of Christians has their 'priest' or 'pastor' or 'God's servant' or 'full-time worker' who are exactly like the Levites of old, leading the worship of God's people. Only these 'Levites' can baptise new converts and break bread. And these 'Levites' are supported by the tithes of God's people. In the meetings, these 'Levites' dominate the show, giving no opportunity for a 'body'-ministry. A one-speaker show is part of the old wineskin. Under the new covenant, every believer can drink of the new wine, be anointed with the Holy Spirit and have the gifts of the Spirit. Two or three prophets are to begin the meeting, one or two may speak in tongues (with an interpretation for each) and every believer is free to prophesy in the meeting and build up the church. This is the new wineskin (1 Cor. 14:26-31). The new wine is described in 1 Cor. 13 - the life of love. The new wineskin is described in 1 Cor. 12 and 14. But how many believers want things done God's way? Alas, very few. Most are content with their old wineskin, and their paid 'Levites'.
Secondly, the Jews had their prophets who found God's will for them in various matters - since the prophets alone had the Spirit. But under the new covenant, the prophets have quite a different function - to build up the body of Christ (Eph. 4:11,12). Since all believers can now receive the Holy Spirit, they do not have to go to some prophet to find out God's will for them (Heb. 8:11; 1 Jn. 2:27). Yet many believers are still living in the old wineskin of going to some man of God to find out what they should do, whom they should marry, etc.
Thirdly, the Jews were a large community of people scattered over a wide area but having a central headquarters in Jerusalem and having an earthly High Priest as their leader. Under the new covenant, Jesus alone is our High Priest and the only headquarters we have is the throne of God. The Jews had a lampstand with seven branches branching out of the central stem (Ex. 25:31,32). This was the old wineskin."
http://www.cfcindia.com/web/books/zac/new_wine_in_new_wineskins.html
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