The Apostle Paul was not ignorant of Roman Law as a citizen of Rome

I find it particularly insightful that Paul deferred to his rights as a Roman citizen to appeal to Caesar and escape death. He certainly did not romanticize about being a martyr.

Act 16:37 But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.
Act 16:38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.

Act 22:25 And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned?
Act_25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.

Act_28:19 But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.

As an American citizen, do you know the laws that govern you? Should you know them? Do you know what your rights are if a CPS (Child Protective Services) worker comes to your door and requests that you let them in to survey your house and question your home-schooled children, privately?

Do you know your rights if a CPS worker comes to your door with a police officer and on the hearsay of a neighbor, request to take your children into custody for "interviews"?

Do you know your rights if you get pulled over for no reason because police want to search your car (without probably cause or a warrant)?

Do you know when you are being illegally detained or that you do not have to "consent" to any searches of private property without "probable cause"?

Do you know your rights as an American citizen if you wish to have a weekly Bible Study in your home or witness and preach in public on public property?

I think too often, Christians allow themselves and their family to be "run over" when they are acting correctly under their nation's laws. It is ok, from Paul's example to
"appeal to Caesar" and "Caesar's laws". And it is ok to remind those who are tasked with carrying out the laws of the land, what the law is.

Paul's example illustrates that you are not rebelling when you abide by and stand upon the laws of your country. There is no hint in scripture where Paul was rebelling against God when he called upon Roman law. Do you think it is rebellion when you defer to the laws of your land and remind those who are employed to uphold them, to obey them too? If they don't, you can "appeal to Caesar". This too, is not rebellion.

Brothers you forget Paul was martyred under Nero later. The only thing his Roman citizenship allowed him was beheading as opposed to crucifixon.

I have seen by your posts in the other thread you both object to the idea of Christians in tbe west coming under persecution. That somehow our political citizenship makes us immune to persecution.

God never promised us immunity from persecution. He did promise us the grace to endure such.

Bearmaster.

Bearmaster,

You are slightly wrong. Paul ministered to the household of Caesar and who knows the Senators and soldiers that he touched. Nothing is wasted with God.

The point is that what you are saying is not evidence that Paul sinned or was judged because he deferred to Roman law. Since the Scriptures don't correct his choice as instruction for all of us, I will only assume that Paul was walking in the Spirit when he made his plea which saved his life for now. Yes, he died later, but could have died earlier.

I hope you are not talking to me as being one that objects to persecution. I have no posts that state that. Persecution is part of the territory when one decides to follow the Lord.

"Beware when all men speak well of you".

I am just saying that being ignorant of your countrie's laws/rights is really nothing to be proud of especially when you could defer to those laws to help people. If there was a law in North Korea that could help Christians but was somehow overlooked, I am sure you would appeal to that law.

It is never wrong to do good, if it is "IN YOUR POWER TO DO GOOD".

Pro_3:27 Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it.

Hi Mary Jane,

It should go without saying that we need to heed the Spirit's voice. The Word of God is not a law book that we follow, only the Spirit can give it life and that is His personal voice to you and I.

The Word of God is full of spiritual principles, statutes, precepts, etc, and many stumble over it when they try to take it and codify these principles into laws. Only the Holy Spirit is qualified to interpret the Scriptures for you and I.

Only the Holy Spirit can define for you and for me, what is "good", meaning what His will for us, is (in any given situation).

Do we doubt that Paul was "in the spirit"?

You are right it should go with out saying that we need to heed the Spirits voice and yet some of my encounters I have found that is not the case. For many Christians there is an expectation that just because they are led to do something all others must be also.

Of course I do not doubt Paul was in the Spirit...do you doubt that he was?

I will just add that because GOD led Paul to do what he did does not mean GOD would led me to do the exact same thing.

God Bless
mj

Yes, this is the plague in the church that proudpapa spoke of in another thread. His was a very good description, I thought. This plague is where so-called spiritual leaders call all the "sheep" to walk in lock-step and do the same thing as if the Lord is calling all of us to do that.

One example would be voting. I have heard these so-called spiritual leaders say that if a Christian does not vote they are going against God's will. No they are not. A believer has the freedom to vote or not vote.

I hope I have answered your question. Also, I have no reason in Scripture to believe that Paul was not in the spirit.

Mary Jane:
I agree with you entirely.

It is never wrong to do good, if it is "IN YOUR POWER TO DO GOOD".

We have to be careful in defining what we consider to be "good." Many things seem to be "good" to us; but we are finite, weak beings, often swayed by what we see in the physical. The only one who knows what is truly good is God. What may be good in one situation may be terrible in another. That is why it is important to be led by the Spirit, who really knows what is good to do in every situation. It is what Jesus did, which is why all that He did was good.

Art Katz has a message on this very thing. I will try to find the message and if I do I will add the link here.

We can only define what is the Good and acceptable will of God as we are walking in Him.

But, on elementary issues, if a child is about to be run over by a car and it is in your power to save the child, I am sure you would deem it a good thing to do so. There are many such elementary and basic decisions like this that you and everyone else make, everyday.

If we over spiritualize what is "good" we will paralyze ourselves into in-action and end up doing no good thing for anyone, because we have not had a lightning bolt from heaven.

Hi Romanchog,

I am merely suggesting in this thread that it can be wisdom for one to be informed as to their state or federal laws.

This link is a case in point and using Paul the apostle as an example is another case in point. Do things always go as we would like? No, but that is no reason to remain in ignorance.

Here is a snippet of the link: (this has to do with Florida)

Mike Gibson spent ten years as an investigator for the Department of Children and Families (DCF) in Florida. He insists that the agency is neither for children nor families. A patriot and Christian, he joined the agency to assess how far government tentacles reach and to try and keep as many families out of "the system” as possible. As a senior investigator he spent about six months educating a circuit judge about dependency law (the laws that deal with children and families in Florida.) The result was a 90 percent reduction in the number of children taken away from their parents during the next two and a half years in the county Gibson worked in. Already privy to anyone’s financial, medical and even sealed and expunged criminal records, Gibson quit in disgust when he learned of plans for vaccine records to be downloaded to the DCF’s database. Office talk centered around the mass influx of children they would have to place in foster care when the Federal government begins mandatory vaccines. In Florida, refusing a mandatory vaccine is a 2nd degree misdemeanor with a sentence of six months in jail or forced quarantine.
Beginning this month, the Gibsons will be sharing vital information that every American family needs to safeguard their children from the voracious appetite of these greed driven agencies.

Although he’s encountered rogue investigators over the years, Gibson’s experience points to the supervisors and program administrators who pressure and intimidate caseworkers into removing children. "The bar has been set very low. Anyone can bring a complaint against a parent anonymously. Probable cause and imminent risk are the only guidelines. It’s a huge financial racket. If it wasn’t the government it would be covered under R.I.C.O. (The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act). It’s all career advancement and a culture of fear,” says Gibson.

Mike Gibson’s philosophy for training and helping people is that they need to understand what they are up against, what the law requires of the agency and what rights a family has during an investigation.
Recently, Gibson stayed on the phone with a mother from his church, successfully coaching her to keep the six sheriff’s deputies at her door with a forged court order at bay.
"Make no mistake. Although the CPS worker doesn’t look like a cop, he is part of law enforcement and is considered a first responder. Parents need to have a real, doable, practical plan to deal with this agency when they come to their door. A large part of how much they can protect their children is how well they prepare their family for this marauding invader and how much they can keep their children out of the system. Keeping your family off their radar is always the best option,” Gibson advises.

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20091030.html

Just-in

I don't know if you saw my edit to one of my previous post but I asked if you were a brother or sister in Christ? It does help to know who one is talking to. :)

God bless
maryjane

a brother