The Success of Strange Fire

sermonindex Nov 1, 2013

1 Thessalonians 5:19-22
Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form if evil.
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The Strange Fire conference was very successful in its own way. For sure it will leave s legacy through the influence of nen such as Steve Lawson and John MacArthur. Calvinism and cessionusm have been victorious. But what has been the outcome? What has been the price of correct doctrine?

Bottom line. The fire of the Spirit has been doused by the hose of correct Calvinistic doctrine. Though the Spirit gives life. The letter of correct doctrine and theology have killed any flefging spark of revival this nation was hoping to see.

The Spirit will be present where He is welcome. He was not welcome at Strange Fire. Though John Calvin most assuredly was. As such. The Spirit has departed. Ichobob has been passed on. Any chance for a movement of God's Spirit has been killed through the hose if correct doctrine. Yea. His fire has been out out.

Strange Fire has been successful. It has successfully killed the moving of God's Spirit. The Spirit will depart and go where He will be welcome. Yes, He will be welcome in the 10/40 windiw with glad and joyful hearts. For we have shut our hearts off to Him with cold Cakvinistic doctrine. I say in sadness God have mercy on us.

Disheartened I say with a heavy heart. These are my thoughts.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Nov 1, 2013

Bearmaster, it makes me sad to see how you fault Calvinism.

You said, ///The letter of correct doctrine and theology have killed any flefging spark of revival this nation was hoping to see./// And the correct doctrine you named was Calvinism...

///Bottom line. The fire of the Spirit has been doused by the hose of correct Calvinistic doctrine.///

I want to plead with my non-Calvinist brothers who have a heart for the Lord and a desire for genuine revival, feel free to disagree with Calvinism if you feel you must on biblical grounds, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it is Calvinist doctrine that douses the fire of the Spirit.

It is Calvinist doctrine that brought on the reformation, the revivals of the late 16th century, the revivals of the mid 17th and late 17th century (in England and Scotland), the Great Awakening (with the likes of Calvinists George Whitefield, Rowland Hill, William Grimshaw, Howell Harris, David Brainerd and Jonathan Edwards), the second great awakening (with the likes of Calvinists Asahel Nettleton, Archibald Alexander, Edward Payson, Henry Martyn andRobert Murray M'Cheyne).

It was Calvinism [edit: really it was Jesus that these men loved to preach! They loved the doctrines of Christ but only so far as those doctrines brought them to Christ] that Spurgeon loved to preach and that J.C. Ryle preached and Martyn Lloyd-Jones and Archibald Brown preached. All of them were men full of the Spirit and power whatever you may think of their theology.

That you would describe Calvinism is cold leads me to conclude you haven't read the puritans. I would heartily commend:

The Glory of Christ by John Owen,
The Christian in Complete Armour by William Gurnall (comes with a commendation by David Wilkerson),
The Letters of Samuel Rutherfod (how full they are of the loveliness of our Lord Jesus!),
A Fountain Opened or vol.1 of John Flavel's works (commended by Paul Washer),
The Love of Christ by Richard Sibbes (how I met God as I read those pages on many happy Sabbath nights)...

Also, consider reading the Memoir of Edward Payson (with a commendation by Leonard Ravenhill) or the Memoir and Remains of Robert Murray M'Cheyne.

Bearmaster, I love you in the Lord and we must go on contending for what we believe is sound and biblical truth; but please don't mistake Calvinism for something cold.

M

MichaelLiao Nov 1, 2013

Dear Bearmaster,

I want to respond by saying, yes, MacArthur's conference has caused a lot of damage. I would disagree with you when you say that we've successfully killed the work of the Spirit with cold Calvinistic doctrine. Personally, I am a reformed charismatic (or Charismatic Calvinist). I didn't agree with what MacArthur did and my heart was just as grieved as yours. But, you must realize, that the doctrine of Calvinism advocates that the Spirit is omnipotent, sovereign, and powerful; that no one can stop Him. He can effectually save a person who is rebellious to God. Yes, we are commanded to not quench the Spirit, but at the same time this Spirit is way more powerful than our wills. He can bring the hardest of hearts to Christ. So, even if this conference did quench the Spirit, He is Sovereign enough and Powerful enough to break into people's hearts and save them. He is powerful enough to bring revival whether we like it or not, according to His time and His way. So to say that we've completely stopped revival or killed the work of the Spirit is simply wrong. No one can stop God. As it says in Acts 17:24-25, "The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything." He does not need human hands to serve Him. He is not subject to our wills. If God is not Sovereign, He is not God, rather He'd be our servant. He can do whatever He wants and it is in His good pleasure. So don't be discouraged. Whatever MacArthur did, that's in the past. But you yourself can still pray for revival.

God Bless,

- Michael Liao

sermonindex Nov 1, 2013

Brothers thank you for your response. Let me say I used to be a stauch 5 point Calvinist defending TULIP to even death. And Stephen I am familiar and have read some of the Puritains (you would have loved my library).

But my time in Calvinism killed my love for Christ because of a love for doctrine. The Lord in His sweet grace brought me back to the love of Jesus.

Brothers, forgive me if any offense was taken in the above post. I have seen you both have a love for Jesus. That is all that matters.

Must stand down from this topic. Need to prepare for 12 hr call for persecuted. God bless yiu both as we press on in Jesus.

Bear.

S

savannah Nov 1, 2013

Stephen2,

I am very much so appreciating your posts in the threads regarding the recent 'strange fire' conference.

Keep fighting the good fight of the faith once for all delivered to the saints.

May you be blessed as you bless the LORD.

P

PaulWest Nov 1, 2013

But my time in Calvinism killed my love for Christ because of a love for doctrine. The Lord in His sweet grace brought me back to the love of Jesus.

And my experience has been the exact polar opposite, having been a Pentecostal minister and belonging to an Assembly of God fellowship for over a decade and witnessing healings and demonic activity on the streets when I would preach. Yet my love for Jesus was diminishing, despite all the signs and wonders.

My eyes being opened to reformed theology has since rekindled my faith, devotion, and love for Christ to an extent I'd never experienced in all my years of Pentecostalism. And the bonus is this: I still see God heal through prayer; I still see demonic activity; I still have faith for the miraculous - if it be God's will to work a miracle. I'm writing this just to show the issue is not cut and dry and is much larger and complex than just poising one "ism" against another and arriving at the correct chemical reaction, spiritually-speaking. You can't put a blanket of fault over all of Calvinism, just the same as you can't with Pentecostalism. God has mightily used both camps for His own deep-eternal purposes and plans.

Instead you should focus on where He is taking you as an individual, irrespective of what camp you presently adhere to. Always keep yourself honest and open to this, and beware of bowing to groupthink Christendom. Believe me, you may not be 100% doctrinally where you are today by this time next year.

O

Oracio Nov 1, 2013

I'm not a five point Calvinist (not fully convinced either way, still searching the Scriptures), but I must say a hearty amen to the posts from the reformed brethren on this thread.

In times like this, the enemy would love for us to react in resentment toward one another and further divide us based on non-essential doctrine(cessationism vs. continuism). But may we be mindful that in times of serious persecution these types of walls will have to fall and we will be forced to find common ground and unity in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ and our love for Him.

By God's grace and through His loving chastening I have come to a place where I realize how much our Lord is grieved by these kinds of divisions in His Church. We are never going to agree on every single point of doctrine. May we be full of grace toward brothers with whom we disagree, even John MacArthur.

That being said, if someone says they are a believer or Bible teacher or preacher but fully deny the essentials of the faith then there must be division, but not over the miraculous gifts of the Spirit imo.

sermonindex Nov 1, 2013

Talk is cheap. It does not matter what you call yourself, if your life reflects that you are denying Christ, then that speaks much louder than words.

M

murrcolr Nov 2, 2013

Quote: John MacArthur. Calvinism and cessionusm have been victorious.

What… !!!!

On the night of my conversion, I was filled with the Spirit, a physical wind blew in to body and I spoke in tongues this was before I set foot in a church, I was all alone in my room and wasn’t a church goer. Then a few months later God spoke to me a for 1-1/2 hours, then when I started attending the church God sent a man all the way from India he knocked on the pastors door and said God told me to come and preach at your church. That night I demon was cast out of me. A few weeks later ex-triads from Jackie Plungers church came to and I set free from drugs that night. This violent, drunken drug-taking ungodly fisherman was changed, my life and countless others.

While doing street work I have prophesied to some men on the street, it was a like when I spoke in tongues, it just came out and would not have been what I would have spoke to them but it spoke directly into there lives. After praying for someone in deep, groaning prayer (and he struggles with tongues) when the break through came in prayer, God Spirit so entered the room that I nearly collapsed to the ground under the weight of God’s presence. I had been praying loudly but the celebration on my part was even louder. (Can you imagine what my neighbors thought once he was a violent, drunken drug-taking ungodly fisherman, know I can hear him praying to God in deep groans and shouting and celebrating like he had scored a goal in a cup final)????

The truth of the matter was that soon my neighbours started coming to my house for help. One afternoon a woman came running into my house with a limp blue kid who passed it to my wife saying he has stopped breathing, who then passed it to me like the kid was a hot coal. What could I do, all that I knew to do and started praying in tongues to seek help in the situation and then I pushed the kid in the stomach and the kid started to cry and the color came back into it’s body and lived. Was the kid dead no, but it would have been as it stopped breathing.

Afterwards when I had settled down to read, in minds eye I saw this person in certain situations and then God spoke to what to say to see them get saved. They are still going on with God to this day. I have prayed for others and have seen things about people in my minds eye and spoke to them about what I saw, and the words that I have heard from heaven, they knew that it was of God speaking through a man.

I do not type these things to get the glory, it’s just what we should be doing as Christians as God wants to work through us, if you have ever been involved in a situation where God uses you you’ll find it a very humbling, but it is also very joyful…

The gifts of the Spirit (including the revelatory gifts) have not ceased; MacArthur is just as wrong as those who have gone after false spirits. One denies that the power the God Spirit can work through a man in certain way, while the others in so desiring to see the gifts of the Spirit operating have been deluded by a false spirit. Whatever you may say it’s deception in both cases. No victory for John MacArthur, Calvinism and or Cessionism.