On the Calvinism / Arminianism Debate - Chris White

Abel was righteous.

Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Cain was wicked.

Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
1Jn_3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Yet God said this to Cain...

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

If Cain did not have the ability of free agency with which to choose to work evil or to work good then God is taunting him.

The Bible clearly teaches we all have free will. Free will carries with it responsibility and therefore God holds us accountable for our deeds.

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Eze 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Maybe we should just stop to use the terms 'calvinism' and 'arminianism', paulism, cefasism, and all the other ism's..

just follow your scriptures and love the genuine brothers in Christ, seek His face together and spread the blessed gospel that can save souls...

amen.

i have keen feeling, we would get along most divinely...that was a most needed Word, God love you, i do.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

Eze 20:39 As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, IF YE WILL NOT HEARKEN UNTO ME: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols.

We do have free will because we can CHOOSE whom we will serve.

Sinners sell themselves into both the bondage and dominion of sin by CHOOSING to sin.

It is through the blood of Christ that Jesus bought us back from the dominion of sin and it is through repentance (dying with Christ) that we are set free from the bondage.

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM YE WILL SERVE; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Ezekiel 18 which he also quotes, is the master playbook for God's opposition to the idea that sin is something handed down by blood from father to son. It just cannot stand against this very clear passage from God to man through Ezekiel. -Sidewalk

you may agree with this:

there IS something that is passed on, as in the "ways" of the parents, where the "iniquity of the father's" is "visited upon the children to the third and fourth generation." I have come to think of iniquity as a "residue of sin" in a person. For there are three types: iniquity transgression and sin

blessings to everyone

Many people are not contending for the faith once delivered to the saints. They contend for doctrines...for the doctrine of Luther or Calvin or Armini and the Reformation which the early church clearly did not teach.

Jesus came to redeem us from ALL iniquity and make us pure.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The Church's actions show that they do not believe Jesus Christ can purify their heart and the theology they are contending for does not teach what the Bible teaches.

Heart purity is all but denied in the church system today. A false gospel that leaves one in iniquity has supplanted the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Satan is a master theologian and is very cunning indeed. Leaven has been introduced into the very foundations of Christian orthodoxy which has in turn corrupted practically everything which has been established on top of the faulty foundation.

A common error in the church system is the teaching that one is only set free from condemnation but that the bondage to sin still continues. It is a false message taught by a multitude of false teachers.

And it is hard to overcome. because Satan doesn't want you to be free, and if you do overcome, its a powerful message that most people don't hear.

I like Zac Poonen a lot for this reason. I feel like I'm not getting my ears tickled and that I am getting the true Gospel and the true Jesus from a man that has a victorious life in Him

I have been hesitating to wade into this discussion, and I don't mean for my comments to be received as a wish for debate.

I just want to respond very briefly to the following quote and the thinking of Chris White,

///Often the time that is spent trying to persuade another brother of a doctrinal point of view could much more wisely be spent sharing the Gospel with those who aren't yet saved. The author of the video discusses that and also the fact that one day (maybe sooner than we think) we could be in concentration camps together where we will then see the vanity and futility of some of our previous divisions.///

The consequences of holding either to Arminianism or Calvinism or something in between are immense. They say that doctrine has legs, and the debate has waged for centuries because that fact is understood. It does matter very deeply what we believe about election and free will (vs. free agecny) and depravity and perseverance of the saints. If they didn't matter they wouldn't be addressed in God's Word. The secret things belong to Lord our God, but the revealed things to us and to our children.

I do love the spirit though of what is being said on this thread, and we would do well to earnestly pray for greater unity amongst brethren - but let us pray for that unity that is like the unity between Father, Son and Holy Spirit, a unity in truth.

Being away from SI for some years and having become convinced during that period of reformed theology I was just doing a bit of digging about the history of SI on this discussion and discovered the following by post by Greg Gordon in another thread on this debate:

///We do not judge or condemn anyone who believes or disbelieves in reformed theology on these forums but we ask because of the divisive nature of this topic that it not be argued and discussed on the forums. There are many other discussion forums in the internet to discuss these things.

A goal of SermonIndex is to Focus on Christ, His person and scriptures alone and not on all the "ism"s men make from them. On this website we have asked and continue to ask people not to contribute or start divisive threads on the subject of calvinism or arminism. Of course we can talk about other scripture topics that are covered in these systems but we encourage the saints not to address these systems because they do bring division.

One of the purposes of these forums is to bring unity to the body of Christ and let believers to come together from all different backgrounds to encourage each other and edify and uplift each other. And also to learn from each other.

here is a note from the about us page: https://www.sermonindex.net/about.php

Q. Does SermonIndex have a certain denominational emphasis?
Answer. No. SermonIndex desires to be a expression of the apostolic church found in Scriptures (Book Of Acts). It is a inter-denominational ministry with 100's of different denominations and ministries involved. Revival, Holiness, Authenticity, and a genuine experience of Biblical Christianity is core the values of this ministry. We believe that the Church of Jesus Christ is larger than any one denomination or group, and that Christ has His love slaves in many different sections of the visible church in many different parts of the world.

I am locking this thread and ask similar threads on these subjects would not be opened on these forums.///

So, I want to first apologize for wading into a debate/discussion that the moderator's have asked people not to have (see my previous post).

Second, I would like to ask why - if this subject is an untouchable - has SI posted Dave Hunt's sermon series "What Love is This?" in which Dave Hunt takes on reformed theology (in what seems to me a most uninformed way)? The series doesn't seem (to me) to contribute to the theme of revival, and you can't get much more polemic than he gets. Perhaps Greg or another moderator can help me out. I think I can understand the reason for asking that the debate be avoided, but it seems inconsistent to have at the same time that particular sermon series.

Thanks for your help on this,

Yes, Stephen, we should not contend for isms or doctrines of men. Notice, now that the thread has gotten quickly away from comparing Calvinism with Arminiaism and we are just discussing the Word. Maybe the title should be changed. I do agree, that no one seems energetic about discussing doctrines of isms.