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Starting over with church

sermonindex Nov 17, 2013

Hey all...need some advice on finding a church. Its been a few years being out of a local church and during that time we have visited some. I can't seem to move out looking again. I am just so tired of the cookie cutter church, it seems to be all the same. I will browse their websites and read their doctrinal statements and listen to a sermon and tell its just the same thing just wrapped up prettier. I admit I am a little frighten to go and little resentful too. What if you don't believe in somethings they teach or do, like tithing or coming up front for invitation..am I wrong to get hung up on that? I have the book PRINCIPLES FOR THE GATHERING OF BELIEVERS UNDER THE HEADSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST, its been a big help...but felling so stuck.

any words of help would be great!

sermonindex Nov 17, 2013

Are there any house churches in your area? There are usually no requirements to fellowship with them such as attending classes on what the church expects of their members (tithing, involvement in programs, etc).

Maybe you can find valuable relationships and fellowship in such an environment. Some people have found that in religious institutions, but clearly, there are alternatives.

There are house churches in most areas, today. Have you looked?

sermonindex Nov 17, 2013

What if you don't believe in somethings they teach or do, like tithing or coming up front for invitation..am I wrong to get hung up on that? I have the book PRINCIPLES FOR THE GATHERING OF BELIEVERS UNDER THE HEADSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST, its been a big help...but felling so stuck.

Guidelines For Gathering
http://gospelfellowships.net/guidelines/

Those guidelines could be an encouragement for you to pray for your local area and for the Lord to lead 2-3 others to meet with you weekly.

Another thought is if there is a contact point in your state they could possibly connect you with other fellowships: http://gospelfellowships.net/find-fellowship/

T
turn Nov 17, 2013

Seen on twitter.com...

RT @dplum: If u make disciples, u always get the Church. If u make a church, u rarely get disciples. - @Mike_Breen

Jesus commanded that we make disciples but never directly commanded that we plant churches.

S
Sidewalk Nov 18, 2013

In my area there are many churches, mostly seeker friendly and other gimmicks by which they grind away pushing the message of Easy Believe. To keep my blood pressure and attitude in check, I keep a respectful distance. Instead, I got involved with a ministry that's doing something constructive with real people. No time for political infighting, or fruitless discussions about angels and pinheads.

Side benefit, I even get to preach once in a while! Thank you Lord!

sermonindex Nov 18, 2013

Hey Just-In there is not many home churches in my area, its predominantly Southern Baptist and COC here. So any departure from conventional church is uncommon and frowned upon. Not saying there isn't any, but very few is my guess. Its football and church on Sunday in the south! I am praying for something and praying that I will be open. My son and I went out to check a church this morning, the church was average, but the time I had with son was priceless!

I thought about starting a home church but not sure yet.

D
dolfan Nov 18, 2013

I will pray for you, reformer. And, you pray for my wife and me, please.

sermonindex Nov 18, 2013

Thanks brother I have checked it about a couple of months ago; will check again though. I have thought about starting a home fellowship but not sure yet whether I can do it. Our house is pretty small and not sure if we could host a couple of families, we are hoping to move into another house next summer for something a little larger to host families...unless we meet a couple that would open up there home.

I appreciated the book, it has been a blessing and encouragement. Regrettably I have to meet others on line, like Sermonindex, that understand the type of fellowship we all seek. The brethren I have here don't understand why or what I am looking for...they think I am in grave error and sin by not going to church on Sunday. If I can find something I will more than happy be part of it.

thanks again!

D
dolfan Nov 18, 2013

Our home is small/small average, I guess. But, we are planning on at least using it to meet with a handful from our church. We are not planning on leaving our church nor do we revolt or whatever. We are convinced that this kind of fellowship is the way to meet and win the lost, build biblical relationships, etc. We hope to extend the reach of the. corporate church we are part of. We are not aiming to leave, yet we also are painfully and inescapably aware of the very truths and principles of the house church way.

sermonindex Nov 18, 2013

Hi Reformer,

I guarantee that there are others that have been "beaten down by the machine" of religion and are just looking for genuine friendship and fellowship.

Sometime people that say, "I am thinking about starting a house church", just need to take some baby steps, first. Because the thoughts behind that statement can be daunting (commitment to week after week of meetings). Why not just invite some people over that you know love the Lord and have a barbecue (lunch together) and enjoy their fellowship. Get to know one another, spend the afternoon telling each other how you came to the Lord is always a blessed way to start.

If you don't know a single soul that truly loves the Lord to the extent where they will give up an afternoon for fellowship with others then it is time to get out and meet new people (make disciples). I am speaking about people in need, because if you can't find fellowship then it is time to make some. You will be built up and begin to make more friends than you ever had if you start thinking about how you can be a blessing to others. What about going to senior citizen homes and encouraging others in the Lord or telling some (who don't know Him) about Him. Just praying for people is great. Then there are prisons, local jails, kitchens that help the poor, charities that help the poor. So often, Christians don't want to get involved in any organization unless it is "Christian" run, but I think a lot of opportunities are being missed.

I think once we take our eyes off of ourselves we are able to see a lot more happening around us and begin to see others needs. And believe me, there are downtrodden people all around us.

In reading the NT, I see many in the Church always "going" and preaching the gospel and making disciples. Maybe that is what time it is in your life.....make disciples. Show your son by example how to talk to others about the Lord, how to love men that have been trodden down, are poor, sick and/or discouraged. Demonstrate to your son an example of walking as Jesus walked. Show your son that if one does not have fellowship they don't just keep visiting churches ad nauseum and grading them (positives and negatives) because that is going to send a very bad message to your son about the church. You could knock on doors at apartment complexes. You and your son are already a team of 2, so you have a partner. I have knocked on doors at apartment complexes and brother, I can tell you there are many people that are waiting to hear a good word, an encouraging word, a loving word.

If you are looking in religious circles you may not find people that want to leave the "safety" of the religious setting, but you will always find the poor, lost, and discouraged if you but open your eyes and your heart. Your son does not need more visits to other churches with you where you are just going to tell him why you can't go to that church. Your son needs to see you BEING what you cannot find in others. You want to raise a son that walks as Jesus walks and takes the lead. Not a son who is looking to follow men and complains all the time about the state of the church.

Strike out with Jesus and blaze a new trail. It seems your town needs one. Soon, you will have more fellowship than you need. You don't need more teaching or programs. You already know the Lord and His ways and since He is your Shepherd, I firmly believe He can speak to you and guide you in your present situation. You are also in my prayers and I look forward to what God is going to do in your life.

M
murrcolr Nov 18, 2013

Hi Reformer
I can say I am like you, I don’t attend church and haven’t for a lot of years, but I also am finding myself being stirred on this matter. Maybe there is something more going on that we are not aware of (the big picture as a manager would say).

I see myself reaching out to those around me they might be Christians but for sure it will be the unsaved. I guess these thoughts stem from when I first became a Christian. The man that was discipling me encouraged me to reach out to those around me in my neighbor-hood as in his words, I was a living in a harvest field and sure enough I started to see God move in the area around about. That was with no real training, no bible school attendance (I was a new Christian) only prayer and a desire to see God touch those around me.

I don’t know what God’s requiring of you or leading you, but I hope in small way I have encouraged you, even if it's so that you can know that you’re not alone.

sermonindex Nov 18, 2013

"To keep my blood pressure and attitude in check, I keep a respectful distance."

This is classic, you also read my mail perfectly with this statement...thank you for giving me quite a chuckle dear brother:)

The only problem is that in some ways my family (esp. kids) miss out. This is alleviated somewhat with a simple little fellowship we host on Saturday nights whenever we can. Blessings!

O
Oracio Nov 18, 2013

What if you don't believe in somethings they teach or do, like tithing or coming up front for invitation..am I wrong to get hung up on that?

Good question brother. I think it depends on how seriously they take those non-essentials. If they say there must be division based on those views then obviously you must separate from them if you don't hold those views. Sadly many evangelical churches are that divisive when it comes to non-essentials which is why there are so many denominations.

I think we also need to be careful that we ourselves do not contribute to that kind of division within the Body over non-essentials.

If they are not preaching the true gospel and are departing from essential truth and practice we must separate from them. This sometimes calls for much discernment from the Lord.

I agree with brother Greg that it is good for us to pray for the Lord to send 2-3 believers our way with whom we can fellowship in a home. If we are faithful in the small things God will be pleased.

I'm in a similar situation as you though I am attending a traditional church on Sunday mornings(a small Calvary Chapel which meets in a hotel). I prefer meeting in a home but I have not found any believers who would be committed to meeting as a church in a home. So I've been feeling that attending that church is the next best thing since it's some fellowship my family(wife and two small children) can get consistently.

I have not chosen to just meet with my wife and two children because I haven't felt it's enough and my kids require an adult to supervise them at all times. Please let me know if you think I am wrong in seeing it like that, I won't be offended at all.

I recently opened up our small home for fellowship with a few believers and we've been blessed in our times of meeting together. But at this point I don't think those few believers will be ready for committing solely and primarily to a small house church. They actually started attending the Calvary Chapel I go to because I told them about it. So even if they would commit to meeting in my home and breaking off from that church it may come across as divisive to the pastor of that church(it's a very small church).

I need much wisdom and guidance from the Lord and ask for your prayers. I will be praying for you reformer. Hang in there.

S
Sidewalk Nov 19, 2013

Just-in, I just love your response! Thank you for taking the time to put that thought together and into a post!

So many people are out there hurting just because no one has ever really loved on them. They are hungry for it!

When Jesus tells the judgement story and tells those with whom He is pleased that they fed Him when He was hungry, clothed Him when he was naked, visited Him in prison- they all wondered when they might have seen Jesus in that situation. They only saw ordinary people at the time...

sermonindex Nov 19, 2013

Hi Sidewalk,

Thank you for your kind words.

We are not supposed to be like the Dead Sea, with no outlet. The Dead Sea cannot support life but it can support people of leisure. You can float on your back in the Dead Sea but you can't drink it's water so you will end up a person of leisure that dies of thirst.

Another person in this thread talked about us being in the middle of a harvest. Fields, white with harvest and the Church with such an opportunity, is introspective and inward.

Jesus had no one who shared his heart except His Father, because they were one. Jesus kept His will in harmony with His Father's. He did not search endlessly for someone who would agree with Him or someone that He could agree with. His heart was fixed and if all the disciples left Him, He was not going to be shaken from His Father's will.

If we are whole in Christ and enjoying the close fellowship and security of His heart then we will be about our Father's business. We won't entertain any thoughts that detract from His will.

Look, there has always been a religious system and there always will be.

If we have the Spirit of God indwelling us our attitude should be an overcoming attitude. We are here to seek and to save the lost and make disciples. Of course we cannot save, as we are only conduits of Jesus Christ. We are His voice, His arms, His hands, and His feet, but He is the substance in the temple. We are containers and the container holds the substance but can never be the substance. "We have this treasure in earthen vessels..."

We simply need to get out of the way (self), removing all the obstacles, open our cartons and let the love of God pour out of us.

There are many things that quench the Spirit of God in us. Fear, hurts, bitterness, unforgiveness, rivalries, pride, strife, etc, etc. These things will turn us into the Dead Sea. The Dead Sea is well,,,DEAD, because it is selfish and has no outlet to others. And a lot of people find comfort and solace and leisure in the Dead Sea. I want the Living Waters!

We must look away from all that is not of Him, that which seeks to destroy us and make us unfruitful in Him and we are to allow Him to be all that He wants to be in our lives.

We are the impediment, not others. We need to wake up and realize that Christ is alive and wants to live in us and wants to touch not only the lost but also our brothers and sisters.

We are to "rule in the midst of our enemies" and not let our enemy rule in our midst.

For far too long I bemoaned the fact that the churches were all messed up and woe was me because I could not find any fellowship. I even thought that house churches were the answer, but they aren't. Christ is the answer and always be.

I found plenty of fellowship, long hours of fellowship, real, genuine fellowship when I repented of my discontentment and ungratefulness and let the rivers of living waters flow out of me like they are supposed to. And you know something? The more I loved people and thought about them instead of myself, the more I was made whole.

One thing I learned that was very important in my life was to draw men to Christ and not to people or churches. Not to home church and not to particular institutional churches. Just draw men to Christ and let Him be their Shepherd. And the flip side is that I don't draw men away from their place of fellowship whether it is a house church or an institutional setting, because and this is very important, it is wrong to be part of a divisive spirit even if you think you are right and it is wrong to draw people away from valuable, genuine relationships. There are genuine relationships in all kinds of settings.

We don't have to be part of all the division, strife and discontentment. There is no time for that. Jesus Christ is on the move...are we on the move with Him?

sermonindex Nov 19, 2013

///The brethren I have here don't understand why or what I am looking for...they think I am in grave error and sin by not going to church on Sunday. If I can find something I will more than happy be part of it.///

Brothers, I have heard many of you regret the many divisions in the church, and yet it seems to me (from a distance and without all the information) that you are perpetuating those very same divisions. The whole Gospel Fellowships Movement that I am hearing so much about is one more division in the Church that will (if it continues) become another denomination.

Reformer I don't know your situation or Colin's so I may be way off the mark, but I do find it hard to believe that there isn't a single church within driving distance that has the marks of the church: proclaiming the gospel, administering the ordinannces of baptism/Lord's Supper and exercising discipline. Is it so bad where you are?

sermonindex Nov 19, 2013

Stephen,

I understand Reformer. Form does not guarantee function.

The functioning and presence of the Spirit is not held captive to us just because we have the form. The Spirit of God will easily move on when men ignore Him.

I do find it rather easy to believe what Reformer is saying, because so many institutions and some house churches are gathering around each other, or tradition, or religion, or someone's systematic theology and not Jesus Christ.

Reformer and Jesus can still do quite a lot together and that is the point I am making. We are not held hostage to the local expression of Christianity nor the lack of it.

Jesus is not at a loss for what to do in Reformer's life,,,TODAY!

sermonindex Nov 19, 2013

The Scriptures do instruct us to turn away from those who deny the power of godliness (in their words and actions) and who have but a mere form of it.

2Ti_3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: FROM SUCH TURN AWAY.

If a brother says there is nothing in their area that they have found, I lean more towards believing them than not.

sermonindex Nov 20, 2013

"The whole Gospel Fellowships Movement that I am hearing so much about is one more division in the Church that will (if it continues) become another denomination."

My mother always used to say, "if you cannot say anything nice, just keep your mouth shut". In this case I think it applies very well. To those involved with Gospel Fellowships...KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK BROTHERS!!!

Gospel Fellowships is a genuine effort by sincere brothers trying to help those who are wanting to "start over with church". Now that's irony:) I love that they are encouraging the body of Christ to gather under the headship of Christ...which is biblical and sound and hardly divisive.

sermonindex Nov 20, 2013

It may not seem 'nice' to say that Gospel Fellowships are another division in the Church (and I certainly wasn't trying to be unkind) but it is a fact, and as one man has said "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

When we leave churches to form new ones we are adding to the problem of division. Now we can make the case that the division is necessary, but there is no sense denying that division has taken place. If Gospel Fellowships replaces churches; if it becomes a movement away from local churches that already exist than it is - pure and simple - divisive...

///I love that they are encouraging the body of Christ to gather under the headship of Christ///

What Christian church doesn't? I've read the statement of faith and it reads like many other statement faiths held by many churches and denominations that already exist.

awakened, by using your mother's words you broke the very principle you want me to keep.

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