Ok, I've heared a few differing opinions about the trinity and who you are supposed to pray to. Some say only the Father, others say you can pray to any, others say the Holy Spirit is your helper, therefore request from Him...Can anyone explain this a little more?
Welcome to SI and I hope you enjoy. I know there are several good resources here that will help you grow in the knowledge and grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Here are some verses.Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Who did Jesus pray to?Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? What about Paul?2Co 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. I belive the Holy Spirit and Jesus make intercession for us to the Father.Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. I belive it is biblical correct to pray to the Father. Thanks for the question. I know someone else will have a more helpful comment and more wisdom in this area. I was just trying to give alittle scripture. Welcome to SI.
The heavenly Father.When you develop a relationship with Christ in time, you begin to see the Father and you will direct your attention to the Father thru Jesus Christ. Matt6:6, Matt11:27Always remember, that the WAY to the Father is thru Christ He is the door. John6:44 I hold to a triune/oneness teaching that there is only ONE Father and ONE Son, and the two make up the ONE Holy Spirit. John 14:23Christ came not to reveal Himself, but to reveal the Father (God).John5:30There is a song out there that goes something like this,"Ask the Father thru Jesus His Son, and then have faith it will be done, arise on wings of faith, in the name of the LORD".Karl
Thanks for the replies, its really helpful...Just a question then, if I am to pray to the Father, how do I get to know the Son (so the Father may be revealed)? Am I supposed to pray to Jesus as well?How do I get to know Jesus? I can know of Him through the scripture, but to know Him personally don't I need to talk to Him? I havent heard of the triune/oneness doctrine, so I'm going to go and look into learning about it, but for those who hold to the teaching that the trinity is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as individual beings: should I be praying to the Holy Spirit too? I mean He is called our helper, it makes alot of sense to get to know Him doesnt it?
Hate to give such a simple response but I believe we should follow the instructions given by Jesus to the disciples:Luk 11:1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased,one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. Luk 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Luk 11:3 Give us day by day our daily bread. Luk 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. I believe when you say "Father" you are addressing all three of the Trinity. Jesus after all is the Father and the Holy Spirit. This is the mystery of the Trinity. Don't really think naming a particular one of the Trinity is an issue of salvation though. God knows your heart.
John 14:6 Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me".1 Tim 2:5 for there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.No one has seen the father, except the SonHow do you get to know Jesus? First you must acknowledge and accept Him as your Lord and savior. And to know Him not only by reading His word, also by having fellowship with Him, yes you do need to talk to him just like you talking to your own friends. By reading His word, praying, and fellowshiping with other belivers will build up your relationship with Jesus and will know Him intimmately. " No one know the Father except the Son, no know the Son except to those who He chooses to reveal Him.Acts 1:5 ...you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit ...Acts 1:8 ... you shall recieve power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you ...Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weakness. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.1Cor 2:10-16 God has revealed it to us his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even deep things of God. For who among men knows th thoughts of man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts God except the Spirit of God. We have not recieved the spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual thruths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment.For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may intruct him?But we have the mind of Christ.
Interesting thread. I generally agree that Jesus pointed us to the Father in our praying. (John 16:23-27) Just curious how we should take John 14:13-14? Jesus said ..."Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.” Any thoughts?
coops wrote:Just a question then, if I am to pray to the Father, how do I get to know the Son (so the Father may be revealed)? A thought that has been recurring in my ponderings of the things of God, is Paul's lament in his epistle to the Phillipians, "Oh, that I may know Him, in the fellowship of His sufferings." Isn't it interesting that someone would actually desire the place of their fellowship with Christ, to in comparable sufferings to those that He endured? Why not in the fellowship of the eucharist, of the saints, of prayer, of scripture, etc? Perhaps Paul understood that the only place where He can truly be known is in His sufferings. There is that silent recognition of comradery that occurs amongst people who have endured hardship together. Without a word needing to be said, to soldiers that have returned from war share a bond that few can understand.As far as who to, and not to pray to, I share the view of most comments in the thread, that Jesus said to pray to the Father. As far as the trinity in prayer, I pray to the Father, by the Spirit, in the name of Jesus (the Son). Ie, The Spirit maketh intercession through me, and the life I live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.In other words, the Son lives his life through me, so in effect, He's praying to the Father using my mouth. I am also the temple of the Holy Spiit (the Spirit has His habitation in me) so He too is praying through me. In effect, I'm a mere spectator in the whole process, eavesdropping on a conversation between God (Son), God (Spirit) and God (Father).In partical terms, I honestly don't believe that it matters how we address Deity (ie, Father, Son, Spirit), but as far as I'm concerned, Jesus said pray to the Father, and that's good enough for me. :-)
I usually pray to Jesus but it does depend on which person of God my heart is appealing to at the time (don't know if that makes sense) as sometimes something deep in me is appealing and crying out to the Father heart of God and I use Father but most other times I pray to Jesus who I tend to imagine is like a perfect older brother (somebody once told me to think of Him like that earlier on in my faith). I was not sure that it mattered too much as they will all three hear your prayer. Don't know anything on whether this is all scripturally correct but that is just what I do.
Quote: "I hold to a triune/oneness teaching that there is only ONE Father and ONE Son, and the two make up the ONE Holy Spirit. John 14:23"I have never heard nor read this before! Is it biblical?
Didier wrote:Quote: "I hold to a triune/oneness teaching that there is only ONE Father and ONE Son, and the two make up the ONE Holy Spirit. John 14:23"I have never heard nor read this before! Is it biblical?This probably belongs in a new thread, but the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all present as disticnt separate persons at Jesus baptism.
I usually pray to Jesus but it does depend on which person of God my heart is appealing to at the timei think i get what ur saying... -like sometimes you need an older brother to chat to about something-other times you are praying for a miracle healing, or needing shelter-other times you need guidance or comfortingall of this available to you for the glory of God through His three personsDon't know anything on whether this is all scripturally correct Ditto. but if someone has a verse, please let us know!!there are 2 things im getting from this thread:1. Jesus told them to pray to the Father (is it any different now that we have the Holy Spirit?)2. Coming to Jesus leads us to the Fatherso really there seems tobe a conflict (until it makes more sense)... on one side, we need to come to Jesus because He is the only one who can lead us to the Father. On the other hand, Jesus told us to pray to the Father...
Clueless wrote;"I usually pray to Jesus but it does depend on which person of God my heart is appealing to at the time (don't know if that makes sense)"Makes perfect sense to me, as that's pretty much how i pray also ... i talk/pray to all three members of the Godhead ... There are times when i just thank, and thank, and thank the Father that He is the Source of every good and perfect gift that comes from above, the best summed up in John 3:16 ...Then there are times when i just thank, and thank and thank the Son for coming, and dying for me as my only sacrificial Provision, and is now risen and is my High Priest in heaven who can be touched by my infirmaties because He knows first hand all about it ...And then there are times when i just thank and thank and thank Holy Spirit for His so closeness of presence, the comfort i feel in His presence, the fact that He's my only Power, and it's He that teaches, equips and groom me to the service of Christ, and lots of times i find myself begging His pardon that i've quenched Him, and grieved Him on so many occasions, but like Father and Son He continues to overshadow me with His love and mercy, and just keeps on about His work of finishing the good work that the baptism in the blood of the Lamb began ... i guess i can best sum this up by saying that when i knew little of each member od the God head my prayes were to "God", or "Jehovah", or "Father", thru "Jesus Christ", and Holy Spirit never got talked to because at one time i didn't even realize Him as God ... But now i address them as Clueless stated ...You might find this of interest ... i got this online and will just post this segment ...PRAY TO WHOM?No Christian would dispute the fact that we can pray to God our Father. Most Protestants and Evangelicals say we can pray to the Three Persons of the Godhead. While a few Evangelicals (but not all!) say that we cannot pray to the Holy Spirit; while some even think it is wrong to pray to Jesus!The following is a defense of the practice of prayer to Christ and the Holy Spirit..Can We Pray to Jesus?Most Christians all over the world pray to Christ our God, as have Christians of every generation since the first century A.D. Yet a few have decided that this is wrong; all prayer, they say, should be addressed to God the Father in the Name of Jesus. They base this belief on the fact that Jesus commands His disciples to pray to the Father in His Name:"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it" (St. John 14:13-14)."...that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you" (St. John 15:16)."And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full" (St. John 16:23-24)While Our Lord clearly tells the Apostles to pray to God the Father in His Name, He never actually says: "Only pray to the Father, never pray to Me directly". This distinction is important; just because our prayers to the Father should be in Christ's Name does not mean that we cannot also pray to Christ Himself! (As Catholic apologists often say: 'It's not "either/or", it's "both/and"!')Let us consider what the whole of Scripture has to say on this topic. The Bible certainly contains many prayers to God the Father, but it also contains some prayers to Jesus Christ Himself. For instance, while St. Stephen the First Martyr was being stoned to death, he cried out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" (Acts 7:59) - clearly a prayer to Christ!Toward the end of his First Epistle to the Corinthians, St. Paul exclaims "Maranatha", an Aramaic phrase meaning "O Lord, come!" (1 Corinthians 16:22). This is an ancient Christian prayer for the Second Coming, which is addressed to Christ Himself. St. John the Evangelist says a similar prayer at the end of the Apocalypse, or Book of Revelation: "Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Apoc/Rev 22:20)!So here are three prayers addressed to Jesus Christ, from three eminent early Christians, all found in the inspired word of God. Christians clearly did pray to the Second Person of the Trinity from the very beginning, and prayer to Him is perfectly biblical:"Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." (Rev 5:9-10) Can we Pray to the Holy Spirit?So the Bible does contain some prayers addressed to God the Son, which proves that prayer to Jesus is appropriate. Yet Scripture contains no prayers specifically addressed to God the Holy Spirit. Consequently, some Christians believe it is improper to pray to Him. But a case can be made for prayer to the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity as well.First of all, Sacred Scripture never actually forbids prayer to the Holy Spirit, so calling it an "unbiblical" practice is essentially an argument from silence, which is not very convincing. Second, the Holy Spirit is a Divine Person within the Godhead with God the Father and God the Son, so He could certainly hear and answer our prayers as easily as can the other two Divine Persons.Third, this argument seems to assume that the Old Testament prayers only invoke God the Father. On the contrary, some of them actually invoke the entire Trinity. Christians have long understood the Trisagion ("Holy, Holy, Holy") sung by the seraphim in Isaiah 6:3 to be an implicit invocation of the Trinity. The Spirit, then would be implicitly included in the final "Holy" of that prayer. The same goes for the Trisagion found in Apocalypse/Revelation 4:8.In Acts 28:25, St. Paul indicates that the words in Isaiah 6:9-10 were spoken by the Holy Ghost. If we read that passage in context, we find that the LORD God spoke those words to the Prophet Isaiah in response to what Isaiah said to Him! Was Isaiah wrong to speak to the Holy Spirit here? Evidently not.In 2 Corinthians 3, St. Paul identifies the Holy Spirit with the LORD God whom the Jews worshipped: "Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (vvs 16-18). If the Holy Spirit is the very same LORD who appeared to Moses, to whom the Hebrews offered prayer and worship, then the prayers of the Old Testament are actually prayers to the Third Person of the Trinity - along with the Father and Son.Some argue that prayer to the Holy Spirit is improper because the Spirit is the One Who enables us to pray in the first place. Yet what if one is having trouble praying, or doesn't know what to pray for; is it wrong to ask the Spirit of God for help? Since the Third Person helps us to pray, there's no reason we can't invoke Him at the beginning of our prayer time to ask for His aid in talking to Our Father in Heaven.Also, the Spirit does more in us than just help us pray: He strengthens our faith, fills us with graces and gifts, causes us to bear His fruits (Gal 5:22-23), teaches, convicts and guides us, among other things. It is certainly not wrong to ask Him for His light and inspirations in these areas.As we saw above, just because we must pray to the Father in Jesus' Name does not mean we cannot also pray to Jesus Himself. Even so, just because the Spirit helps us to pray to the Father does not mean we cannot also pray to the Spirit Himself!
Hate to give such a simple response but I believe we should follow the instructions given by Jesus to the disciples:simple is good...
I hold to a triune/oneness teaching that there is only ONE Father and ONE Son, and the two make up the ONE Holy Spirit. John 14:23Does this mean that the Holy Spirit is not a person but only an amalgam of the Father and the Son?
I may be mistaken but i think the Oneness doctrine holds that there is one God that revealed himself as 3 different persons at different times. In the old testement he was the father, when Jesus walked he earth he was called Jesus, and now he is the Holy Spirit who is with us. They do not hold that there are 3 seperate persons in total agreement but hold that there is one who at different times was in a different stance. I think that is close. I do not agree with them in several areas. Most that hold this doctrine belive that you must be baptized in Jesus name only (Father, Son, and Holy GHost will not save you). And that you must speak in tougues to be saved. To be saved you must A) Belive and accept Jesus B) Be baptized in Jesus name C) SPeak in tougues or recive the infilling of the Spirit.I think they err in many areas. The main denomination that suports these veiws are the United Pentecostals. If I am wrong someone please correct me. My understanding of their views are not perfect. I can only tell you for sure what I belive not someone else. Just trying to help...
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