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Tongues again

sermonindex Nov 30, 2013

As I said on another recent thread, I think both sides of the fire divide are wrong, but I do agree with the reformed understanding of tongues (not their understanding of baptism of the Spirit and holiness) Here is the best article I have ever found on the subject of tongues and I plead with the brethren to consider it. It is a lonely place to be stuck in the middle. There is a place where you can believe in the baptism and the gifts continuing, you don't have to give it all up.

The Genuine Gift of Tongues from The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia and Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia, under the entry "Delphi." 2Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia, under the entry "Pentecostals".

Let's begin with a definition. The word "tongue" in the Bible simply means "a language." God gives all the gifts of the Spirit to fill a practical need. What was the need for tongues?

Jesus told His followers, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Matthew 28:19. This command posed a problem. How could the apostles go out preaching to all the world when they spoke only one or two languages? After all, Jesus' disciples were very bright, even though most of them were not formally educated. In order to fulfill the great commission, He promised to give them a unique gift from the Holy Spirit. It was a miraculous, supernatural ability to speak foreign languages they had not formerly studied or known for the purpose of spreading the Gospel.

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; ... they shall speak with new tongues." Mark 16:17. The fact that Jesus said these new tongues, or languages, would be a "sign" indicates that the ability to speak them would not come as the result of normal linguistic study. Rather, it would be an instantaneous gift to fluently preach in a previously unfamiliar language. There are only three actual examples of speaking in tongues recorded in the Bible (Acts chapters 2, 10, and 19). If we look at these three cases, we should find a clearer picture of this controversial gift.

"When the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven [divided] tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:1-4.

Fire is a symbol for power. God sent this gift in the form of tongues of fire so they would know that He would empower their feeble tongues in the same way He strengthened Moses to go before Pharaoh (Exodus 4:10-12) and touched Isaiah's lips with a coal from the heavenly altar (Isaiah 6:6, 7). Why did the Lord wait until Pentecost to bestow this gift?

Acts 2:5-11 sets the scene: "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? ... We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."

The day of Pentecost was a Jewish holy day that fell 50 days after Passover. Devoted Israelites would come from all over the Roman empire to worship in Jerusalem. God chose this timely opportunity to bestow this gift of tongues upon the disciples so they could preach to the visiting Jews in their native languages. At least 15 different language groups were represented in the crowd that day (Acts 2:9-11)! As a result, thousands of these visitors were converted. Then, after Pentecost, they in turn carried their new faith home to their respective countries.
From this example it should be very clear that the gift of tongues was given to communicate the gospel in different existing languages of the world.

Some have mistakenly suggested that the miracle on Pentecost was a gift to hear and understand different languages. It was not a gift of hearing given to the listeners, but rather a gift of the Spirit given to enable the believers to speak (Acts 2:4). It is not called the gift of ears for the listeners, but the gift of tongues for the speakers. Furthermore, the sign was not ears of fire on the listeners, but tongues of fire on the ones preaching.
It is also sometimes suggested that the gift of tongues is a "heavenly language" understood only by God or those with the gift of interpretation. The Bible is clear in Acts chapter 2 that both the disciples and those listening understood what was being preached-"the wonderful works of God." Verse 11.

Let's look now at the second example when Peter preached to Cornelius and his household. "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God." Acts 10:44-46.

Acts 10:1 tells us that Cornelius was Italian, while Peter was a Jew and spoke Aramaic. History also tells us that the servants in a Roman home could be from anywhere in the world. Because there were obvious language barriers at this meeting, Peter likely began to preach through an interpreter. But when the Holy Ghost fell upon Cornelius and his household, the Jews with Peter could understand the Gentiles speaking in languages other than their native tongues. The record is that the Jews heard them "magnify God" in these languages. When later reporting this experience to the church leaders, Peter said, "The Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning." Acts 11:15, emphasis added.

Peter here plainly tells us that Cornelius and his family received the same gift of tongues in the same way the disciples did on the day of Pentecost. In other words, they spoke languages they had not formerly known in a way that could be understood.

The third and final example of speaking in tongues is when Paul preached to 12 Ephesian disciples. Acts 19:6 records, "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."
Paul was the most educated and widely traveled of the apostles, and he spoke many languages (1 Corinthians 14:1. When the Holy Spirit came upon these 12 Ephesian men, Paul recognized that they were prophesying, or preaching, in new languages. Most likely they spoke in languages common throughout the Roman Empire, since that would be practical for spreading the Gospel. Luke does not say that they received a form of tongues different from the first two examples, so we must assume that it was the same type of gift given at Pentecost.

You'll find that the only times the gift of tongues was associated with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is when people from more than one language group were gathered together, thus creating communication barriers.

Notice that in Acts chapter 4 you have a repeat of the experience described in chapter 2. The place was shaken and they were filled with the Holy Spirit, but because there were no foreigners present, the gift of tongues was absent. Acts 4:31 says, "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."

The purpose for the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not to mutter or babble unintelligible sounds, but rather to have power for preaching. This is why Jesus said, "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8.

The Message to Corinth

Of the 14 New Testament books written by Paul, 1 Corinthians is the only one in which he deals with the subject of tongues. The Corinthian church obviously had a specific, temporary problem because Paul's second letter to Corinth never even mentions tongues.

The ancient city of Corinth was famous for its two international seaports. Because the Corinthian church was a melting pot of many different nationalities, its services often became chaotic and confusing. Evidently some of the members would pray, testify, or preach in languages unknown to the others present. This is why Paul commanded that if they spoke in a tongue unknown to the majority, they should remain silent unless there was someone there to interpret or translate (1 Corinthians 14:2. In other words, it's not polite to speak in a language that your audience cannot understand. Listen to these plain statements from the apostle:

"Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. ... Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. ... If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." 1 Corinthians 14:6-9, 19, 27, 28.

It is truly amazing that some people take this passage and use it as an excuse to babble during services! The consistent message of Paul throughout Scripture is the very opposite. In 1 Timothy 6:20, he specifically mentions "avoiding profane and vain babblings." And in 2 Timothy 2:16, Paul repeats that counsel: "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." In other words, the very purpose for the gift of speech is to communicate your thoughts. If those present do not understand your communication, then keep silent.

Heavenly Prayer Language?

Many charismatic friends would agree that the tongues spoken in the book of Acts were normal languages of the world. But they quickly add that there is a second gift-a heavenly prayer language. This gift, they say, is to express the Spirit's "groanings which cannot be uttered." Romans 8:26. The purpose, they say, is so the devil cannot understand our prayers. But nowhere are we taught to hide our prayers from the devil. He trembles when he hears Christians pray!

This doctrine of a prayer language is based mainly upon 1 Corinthians 14:14, where Paul says, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful." They interpret this to mean that when Paul prayed in the Spirit, he used a "heavenly tongue" and did not himself know what he was praying. This theory raises an important question. How would the supplicant ever know if his prayer was answered?

So what is Paul really saying in 1 Corinthians 14:14? The problem in understanding this verse comes largely from the cumbersome translation. Please allow me to rephrase the verse in modern English: "If I pray in a language those around me do not know, I might be praying with the Spirit, but my thoughts would be unfruitful for those listening." Paul is adamant that if we pray out loud, we should either pray so others around us can understand or else keep quiet! Notice the next few verses: "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?" 1 Corinthians 14:15,16. According to this text, who has the problem with understanding? It is the listener and not the speaker as is commonly taught. If you have ever prayed with someone who is offering a prayer in a language unknown to you, then you know what Paul meant when he said it is difficult for you to say "Amen" (meaning "so be it") at the end of the prayer. Without an interpreter, you have no idea to what you are assenting. You may have just asked a blessing on the devil as far as you can tell!

It is obvious from the context of 1 Corinthians 14 that the purpose of speaking in tongues, or foreign languages, is to communicate the gospel and thereby edify the church. If the listeners do not understand the spoken language they cannot be edified. Consequently, if there is no interpreter, the speaker is simply speaking into the air and the only ones present who know what is being said are God and himself. This is the clear meaning of the often-misquoted verse 2. "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."

Paul emphasizes again that the languages spoken need to be understood by the hearers or else the one who wants to share the mysteries of the gospel needs to sit quietly in meditation between himself and God. "So likewise ye; except ye utter by tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air." "But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." Verses 9, 28. Clearly, the entire purpose of tongues is to cross language barriers and communicate the gospel! Some have asked, "Didn't Paul say he spoke with the tongues of angels?"

No. Paul said, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels ..." 1 Corinthians 13:1, emphasis added. If you read this verse in its context, you will see that the word "though" means "even if." For example, Paul also said in verse 2, "Though I have all faith ..." He did not have all faith. And verse 3 adds, "Though I give my body to be burned ..." Paul was beheaded, not burned. So we can see that Paul here used the word "though" to mean "even if."

Right Priorities

I believe that all the gifts of the Spirit, including the true gift of tongues, are needed and available to the church today. But the Scriptures teach that some of the gifts are more important than others and that we should focus on the most important ones. "But covet earnestly the best gifts." 1 Corinthians 12:31. In fact, when the Bible lists spiritual gifts, tongues is usually found at the bottom of the list. "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." 1 Corinthians 12:28. "Greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues." 1 Corinthians 14:5.

Yet some charismatic preachers have turned the list upside down and made the gift of tongues the primary emphasis of their preaching. They would have us think that a Christian who does not speak in tongues is a second-class citizen. But Paul makes it clear that different gifts are given to different people, and no one is expected to have all the gifts. He asks in 1 Corinthians 12:29, 30: "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?" The answer is obviously NO!

The Bible says, "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance." Galatians 5:22, 23. But these same preachers would have us believe that the fruit of the Spirit is tongues or that every person who is filled with the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues. Yet out of more than 50 examples in the Bible where God filled His people with the Spirit, only three times is tongues connected with the experience.

Furtheremore, Jesus is our example. He was filled with the Holy Spirit, yet He never spoke in tongues. John the Baptist was "filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb" (Luke 1:15), but there is no record that he spoke in tongues, either. Of the 27 books in the New Testament, only three make any reference at all to the gift of tongues. There are about 39 Bible authors. Of the 39, only three-Luke, Paul, and Mark-mention the subject of tongues. In other words, we should put the emphasis where God puts the emphasis.

Creative Counterfeit

The genuine gift of tongues is a powerful tool for the proclamation of the gospel. But remember, the devil has a counterfeit for every truth of God. Glossolalia (glô´se-lâ'lê-a) is the word often used to describe the popular experience found in most charismatic churches. It is defined in the American Heritage Dictionary as: "fabricated and non-meaningful speech, especially such speech associated with a trance state or certain schizophrenic syndromes."

Contrast that with the same dictionary's definition for a language: "The use by human beings of voice sounds, and often written symbols representing these sounds, in organized combinations and patterns in order to express and communicate thoughts and feelings."
By any definition, the disjointed sounds of glossolalia are not a language.

Baptized Paganism

The modern manifestation of tongues finds its roots not in the Bible, but rather in ancient pagan spiritualistic rituals. In the sixth century B.C., the Oracle of Delphi was housed in a temple built near the foot of Mt. Parnassus. Delphi was also sacred to Dionysus, the god associated with wine, fertility, and sensual dance, and to the nine Muses, patron goddesses of music.

While exhilarating music was played, the chief priestess named Pythia would breathe intoxicating vapors, go into a frenzied trance, and then begin jabbering. The weird sounds the priestess muttered were then interpreted by a priest, who usually spoke in verse. Her utterances were regarded as the words of Apollo, but the messages were so ambiguous that they could seldom be proven wrong.

The Native Americans in New Mexico use a similar ritual.The Indians would eat the hallucinogenic peyote, then sit in a circle and chant and pound drums for hours. Before long, several were spasmodically muttering as they experienced their tormenting visions. Today the charismatic churches are by far the most popular among the Native Americans because it is such an easy and natural transition from their old religions.

Among many heathen African tribes, in order to invoke the blessing of their gods, the people would sacrifice a chicken or goat and then dance around a fire for long hours, chanting songs to the hypnotic rhythm of a pounding drum. Eventually some of the people would become possessed by their gods and begin speaking the eerie languages of the spirit world. Then the local witch doctor or priest would translate the messages. This ritual is still practiced today among the Voodoo Catholics in the West Indies.
This pagan practice first found its way into the North American Christian churches in the early 1800s. Many of the African slaves who were brought to America and forced to accept Christianity were unable to read the Bible for themselves. Even though they came from a variety of tribes in Africa, one practice most tribes held in common was the "Spirit Dances" with the "spirit-possessed" person muttering.

The slaves mistakenly associated this with the Christian "gift of tongues" and began to incorporate a modified version into their meetings. These frantic services, which were accompanied by heavy rhythmic music, began to spread at first only in the South and the participants were mocked by the mainline denominations as "Holy Rollers." Some even went so far as to grab venomous serpents during their possessed trances as a means of proving that they had the "spirit." (This was a misuse of Mark 16:18, which says, "They shall take up serpents," in reference to the time Paul was accidentally bitten by a serpent but was unharmed by the venom. See Acts 28:3-6.) For people to hunt down and pick up deadly snakes in order to prove that they have the Holy Spirit is, in reality, tempting God!

The national expansion of the Pentecostal movement among Caucasians began in Los Angeles at the Apostolic Faith Gospel Mission on Azusa Street in 1906. The leader was a black former holiness preacher named William Seymour. From there, leaders continued to refine the doctrines and make them more attractive and palatable to other mainline Christians.

"Then in about 1960 the charismatic movement began attracting followers within traditional denominations. From then it continued to have explosive growth until now there are several million charismatics in Protestant and Catholic churches throughout the world."

It is important to note the prominent role music plays in all the pagan religions that practice glossolalia. This counterfeit gift of tongues first found its foothold in mainline churches through "baptized" pagan music and worship styles. The dominant, repetitious rhythms and syncopated beat disarm the higher reasoning powers and put the subconscious mind in a hypnotic state. In this vulnerable condition, the spirit of ecstatic utterance finds easy access.

Now the devil is using this counterfeit gift of tongues, like a Trojan horse, to introduce pagan worship styles into Christian churches with a frightening degree of success. Satan wants to shift the attention of Christians from faith to feeling. Some of these charismatic churches go so far as to say that the Bible is the old letter, and that messages which come through tongues are fresh revelations of the Spirit and therefore more dependable.
So now the stage is set for Satan's final performance!

How God's Spirit Affects Us

The concept that a person who is "slain in the spirit" should fall to the ground and wallow and mutter is an insult to the Holy Ghost. The reason God gives us His Spirit is to restore in us His image-not to rob us of all dignity and self control!

On mount Carmel, the pagan prophets of Baal jumped on the altar and shouted and moaned. They prophesied and cut themselves. By contrast, Elijah quietly knelt and prayed a simple prayer(1 Kings 18:17-46). "For God is not the author of confusion." 1 Corinthians 14:33. If God is not responsible, then who is? The idea that we lose control when we receive the Spirit is not consistent with Scripture. "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." 1 Corinthians 14:32. Here's another case in point. After Jesus saved a berserk, demon-possessed man by the sea, the healed man was seen "sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind." Luke 8:35.

The invitation of God is "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord." Isaiah 1:18. He wants us to use our heads. Some of you reading this study are no doubt thinking: "How dare you say these things? I have spoken in tongues for years and know it is from God!"

As Christians, we should never base our conclusions on how we feel. After all, the devil can certainly make us feel good. Rather, we must base our beliefs upon the sure Word of God. A true Christian should be willing to surrender every cherished view and practice on the altar of God's will and forsake any practice that may be questionable-no matter how popular, accepted, or beloved among other Christians. There are some things that are highly esteemed among men but are an abomination in the sight of God (Luke 16:15).

Babbling in Babylon

Why is understanding the subject of tongues so essential for us today? I believe the modern charismatic movement was foretold in Bible prophecy. Revelation chapter 18 verses 2 and 4 state: "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen. ... And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

We must remember that one of the principal characteristics of ancient Babylon at the tower of Babel was a confusion of tongues (Genesis 11:7-9). Revelation is telling us that in the last days, God's people are to be called out of Babylon and its confusing counterfeit religious systems.

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet." Revelation 16:13. The phrase "out of the mouth" represents speech, and please don't miss the fact that a frog's main weapon is its tongue. Unclean tongues? Perhaps God is trying to tell us something.

Remember that the confusion of tongues at Babel was not a blessing of the Spirit, but rather a curse for their rebellion. In fact, we get our modern word "babbling" from the story of ancient Babel. At Pentecost, the curse of Babel was reversed so others might understand the gospel.
Given to the Obedient

I have met people who told me they've had the baptism of the Holy Spirit because they spoke in tongues; yet they held a cigarette in one hand and a can of beer in the other. Now let's get something straight. There are some basic requirements for receiving this most precious gift of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth." John 14:15, 16, 17. "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:32, emphasis added.

A few years ago several famous TV evangelists fell by the way. They all claimed to be filled with the Holy Spirit and have the gift of tongues. But they were living in gross immoral disobedience. They would speak in tongues on TV, then leave the studio to live a compromising life. Something just wasn't right. These men also caused me to wonder, "If this is the genuine gift of tongues, then why do these charismatic evangelists need an army of interpreters to translate for them when they preach overseas?"

Why does God give the Spirit? "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me." Acts 1:8. God does not give us the Spirit to babble, but as power for witnessing!
How can we receive the genuine gift of the Holy Spirit? Totally submit to God, be willing to forgive others, obey Him, and ask. Luke 11:13 says, "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

sermonindex Nov 30, 2013

Brenda the article assumes a position that the gift of tongues are the speaking of earthly languages. Respectfully I disagree with the article. Even a casual reading of 1 Cor.14 will show that the context of tongues as used in the passage are a prayer language.

Look at 1 Cor.14:2. Paul writes that the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. For in his spirit he speaks mysteries. I believe clearly a prayer language is implied. Not the speaking of an earthly language.

Consider 1 Cor.14:27-28. If someone has a tongue and no one is available then the person with the tongue is to speak to himself and God. Hearkening back to 2 Cor.14-2 about speaking mysteries in his spirit. Prayer language is implied here.

In Romans 8:26-27.we are told the Spirit intercedes for us with groans even too deep for words. Brenda have you ever been in the presence of someone who travails? I mean gut level, belly aching, travailing prayer? I have. These intercessors pray with a deep fervency in tongues that few can understand. They pray in a deeper level in God's presence that few intercessors, myself included, can and their tongue praying is anything but vain repetition.

Regarding Cornelius and Peter. In all likelihood Peter and Cornelius spoke Koine Greek. This was the common language in the time of Christ. Common Greek was the language of the peoples of Rome. This is why the New Testament was written in Greek. In all likelihood Peter communicated the gospel to Cornelius in Greek. Thus the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius's household and they spoke in tongues. The implication in the verses is a heavenly or spiritual language.

Sister I do speak in tongues as a prayer language. As we pray for persecuted believers in foreign lands we come against spiritual demonic forces that sometime hamper our regular praying. Thus other intercessors, inuding myself, switch to tongues for our praying. Thus more power comes to our prayers.

I could say more but will stand down for now. Perhaps others gave more to offer.

Bear.

L
Lysa Nov 30, 2013

krautfrau wrote:
Paul is adamant that if we pray out loud, we should either pray so others around us can understand or else keep quiet!

The author conveniently forgot to mention the basis for 1 Cor 14.14 and that is "YET IN THE CHURCH,” we are free to NOT keep quiet and speak in tongues to our hearts content in our home, our car where ever we and Holy Spirit see fit!

Also, I would like to know if this article was written by someone who actually has the gift of speaking in tongues and uses it on a regular basis. Because most of the "how to” books and articles on tongues are by people who don’t actually speak in tongues and I find that absolutely amazing!!

And the major reason why I question whether this person is active in this gift is because of the steadfast rules he/she sets forth for each example.

There are so many aspects in the use of tongues and those who don't speak in tongues do not realize this. Yes one of them is to present the gospel but that is not the only valid one.

Who might the author of the best article you've found on this subject be?

God bless,
Lisa

sermonindex Dec 1, 2013

Bear

Look at 1 Cor.14:2. Paul writes that the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. For in his spirit he speaks mysteries. I believe clearly a prayer language is implied. Not the speaking of an earthly language.

If you speak in an unknown language you are speaking to God as you don't understand what you are saying (mystery) and God does understand the language. I don't see how this must mean what you are saying.

Consider 1 Cor.14:27-28. If someone has a tongue and no one is available then the person with the tongue is to speak to himself and God. Hearkening back to 2 Cor.14-2 about speaking mysteries in his spirit. Prayer language is implied here.

For the sake of order, and no-one is available with the interpretation, then it makes sense that Paul would instruct that the person should keep it private between themselves and God. Again, I don't see why that has to be what you call a prayer language. I feel you are reading that into the text.

In Romans 8:26-27.we are told the Spirit intercedes for us with groans even too deep for words. Brenda have you ever been in the presence of someone who travails? I mean gut level, belly aching, travailing prayer? I have. These intercessors pray with a deep fervency in tongues that few can understand. They pray in a deeper level in God's presence that few intercessors, myself included, can and their tongue praying is anything but vain repetition.

Groaning speaks to me about feelings that we might not be able to express in words which has nothing to do with what tongues are spoken of in scripture. There is no need to express emotions in words to God. He can read them in our hearts. It has nothing to do with conversation with God. As we grow up we learn to express our emotions in words so to have to revert to childhood methods of communication makes no sense to me. If I am feeling something very strongly I know that God understands what I am feeling. If I want to communicate my feelings to others then I need words so that they can connect with me, so how on earth is gabbling supposed to help humans to connect?

I have been around charismatics enough to have experienced all of the nuances of tongue speaking and singing and have never once felt that it was of God. Yet I have a very strong gift of discernment.

Regarding Cornelius and Peter. In all likelihood Peter and Cornelius spoke Koine Greek. This was the common language in the time of Christ. Common Greek was the language of the peoples of Rome. This is why the New Testament was written in Greek. In all likelihood Peter communicated the gospel to Cornelius in Greek. Thus the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius's household and they spoke in tongues. The implication in the verses is a heavenly or spiritual language.

Aramaic was spoken widely, Greek was more of a commercial language, and scripture does not say whether Cornelius and family were witnessing to speakers of other languages as particularly in Jerusalem, many languages were/are spoken there.

I wonder why the spiritual giants, like Wesley and the great missionaries who did not speak in tongues were able to overcome demonic powers then?

sermonindex Dec 1, 2013

Sister Lisa

As the article speaks against tongues as they are understood today, I don't see how it can be seen as a 'how to' article. If I had the name of the writer I would have given it. It is an entry in an encyclopeadia.

M
murrcolr Dec 1, 2013

http://ucmpage.org/articles/rtuttle1.html

John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, certainly would have concurred. In his Journal entry for August 15, 1750, he wrote, "I was fully convinced of what I had long suspected, 1. That the Montanists, in the second and third centuries, were real, scriptural Christians; and, 2. that the grand reason why the miraculous gifts were so soon withdrawn, was not only that faith and holiness were well nigh lost; but that dry, formal, orthodox men began even then to ridicule whatever gifts they had not themselves, and to decry them all as either madness or imposture."

Wesley clearly believed that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were relevant for the church in any age. He defined them. He described them. He experienced them. He defended them.

Although Wesley never emphasized certain gifts such as predictive prophecy or tongues and their interpretation, he did regret their loss to Christians in general. In his sermon, "The More Excellent Way," he writes, "The cause of this [decline of spiritual gifts following Constantine] was not, (as has been vulgarly supposed,) `because there was no more occasion for them,' because all the world was become Christians. This is a miserable mistake; not a twentieth part of it was then nominally Christian. The real cause was, `the love of many,' almost of all Christians, so called, was `waxed cold.' The Christians had no more of the Spirit of Christ than the other Heathens. The Son of Man, when he came to examine his Church, could hardly `find faith upon earth.' This was the real cause why the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were no longer to be found in the Christian Church; because the Christians were turned Heathens again, and had only a dead form left."

Obviously the implication here is that when the church recovers its first love, the gifts of the Holy Spirit will be available to enable its several parts to minister effectively within their own spheres of influence. Although the "more excellent way" is the way of love, Wesley still insisted that we may "covet earnestly" such gifts as evangelism to "sound the unbelieving heart," or the gift of knowledge to understand both the providence and the grace of God, or the gift of faith "which on particular occasions,...goes far beyond the power of natural causes" (Works, 7:27).

Some argue that Wesley sounded somewhat ambivalent at times with regard to some of the more "extraordinary" gifts as they surfaced within the 18th century Evangelical Revival (no doubt concerned about the charges of "enthusiasm" against the people called Methodist). However, on at least one occasion Wesley defended the gifts of the Spirit. In a letter to Conyers Middleton (Works, 10:1-79), Wesley defined, described, and defended a whole host of spiritual gifts, including: "1. Casting out devils; 2. Speaking with new tongues; 3. Escaping dangers, in which otherwise they must have perished; 4. Healing the sick; 5. Prophecy, foretelling things to come; 6. Visions; 7. Divine dreams; And, 8. Discerning of spirits" (Works, 10:16). Although the order and even the mention of some "gifts" not normally associated with the biblical accounts (such as visions and dreams) may seem a bit strange, the fact remains that Wesley believed that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were not only important but also were active during the 18th century Evangelical Revival.

sermonindex Dec 1, 2013

Colin

Do you have a link please where I can read volume 10? I have tried to find it online.

I believe in the continuation of the gifts, and of the possibility of men being enabled to speak in new tongues, though it is no longer used for a sign amongst the Jews.

During Wesley's whole long ministry he spoke specifically on glossolalia nil times, as far as I can see and did not practise it himself nor his brother and as they were so spiritually minded, why do you think that was?. In fact there is a point in his Journal where Charles had to share a bed one night in an Inn and he complained that the person who was one of the French Prophets I believe, 'gobbled like a turkey throughout the night'.

The same repulsion and disgust was expressed by Charles Wesley, who inadvertently shared a room with a French Prophet during one of his journeys. The man "gobbled like a turkeycock," and Charles "began exorcising him with 'Thou deaf and dumb devil!' " He rested poorly that night””or as he put it, "nor did I sleep very sound with Satan so near me." (Robert Southey The Life of John Wesley (New York, 1847), I, 240.) (The Charismatic Movement, 1975, Michael P. Hamilton, p 79)

During the days of the early Methodist revivals, glossolalia was never even mentioned nor has it been a part of any of the prePentecostal revivals.

sermonindex Dec 1, 2013

Here is the beginning of The Sermons of John Wesley - Sermon 89 The More Excellent Way where he clearly associates tongues with a human language :

"Covet earnestly the best gifts; And yet I show to you a more excellent way." 1 Cor. 12:31.

1. In the preceding verses, St. Paul has been speaking of the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost; such as healing the sick, prophesying (in the proper sense of the word; that is, foretelling things to come), speaking with strange tongues, *such as the speaker had never learned, and the miraculous interpretation of tongues.* And these gifts the Apostle allows to be desirable; yea, he exhorts the Corinthians, at least the teachers among them (to whom chiefly, if not solely, they were wont to be given in the first ages of the Church,) to covet them earnestly, that thereby they might be qualified to be more useful either to Christians or heathens. "And yet," says he, "I show unto you a more excellent way;" far more desirable than all these put together, inasmuch as it will infallibly lead you to happiness both in this world and in the world to come; whereas you might have all those gifts, yea, in the highest degree, and yet be miserable both in time and eternity.

2. It does not appear that these extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were common in the church for more than two or three centuries We seldom hear of them after that fatal period when the Emperor Constantine called himself a Christian, and from a vain imagination of promoting the Christian cause thereby heaped riches, and power, and honour, upon the Christians in general; but in particular upon the Christian clergy. From this time they almost totally ceased; very few instances of the kind were found. The cause of this was not (as has been vulgarly supposed,) "because there was no more occasion for them," because all the world was become Christian. This is a miserable mistake; not a twentieth part of it was then nominally Christian. The real cause was, "the love of many," almost of all Christians, so called, was "waxed cold." The Christians had no more of the Spirit of Christ than the other Heathens. The Son of Man, when he came to examine his Church, could hardly "find faith upon earth." This was the real cause why the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were no longer to be found in the Christian Church -- because the Christians were turned Heathens again, and had only a dead form left.

3. However, I would not at present speak of these, of the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost, but of the ordinary; and these likewise we may "covet earnestly," in order to be more useful in our generation. With this view we may covet "the gift of convincing speech," in order to "sound the unbelieving heart;" and the gift of persuasion, to move the affections, as well as enlighten the understanding. We may covet knowledge, both of the word and of the works of God, whether of providence or grace. We may desire a measure of that faith which, on particular occasions, wherein the glory of God or the happiness of men is nearly concerned, goes far beyond the power of natural causes. We may desire an easy elocution, a pleasing address, with resignation to the will of our Lord; yea, whatever would enable us, as we have opportunity, to be useful wherever we are. These gifts we may innocently desire: but there is "a more excellent way."

sermonindex Dec 1, 2013

He did not rule out God’s occasional gifts of healing, miracles, and previously unknown human languages (the evidence is very skimpy on glossalalia, or "heavenly” languages). But he believed that preoccupation with these "extraordinary” gifts drew believers’ attention away from the quest of holiness.[58]

http://www.lcoggt.org/Articles/john_wesley_and_the_second_bless.htm

Please supply links to show that Wesley was speaking of glossalilia rather than foreign languages.

sermonindex Dec 1, 2013

Wesleyan Theological Journal Volume 10 ”” Spring ”” 1975 GLOSSOLALIA AND PROPHETEIALALIA: A STUDY OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14

Charles D. Isbell Assistant Professor of Classics
University of Massachusetts

There are two methods of speaking with which Paul is concerned throughout 1 Corinthians 14. One method is "speaking in tongues” or glossolalia, the other is "speaking prophetically ” or Propheteialalia.

It is necessary to examine carefully these two types of speech before attempting an interpretation of the chapter.
It is a thesis of this paper that a proper understanding of the terms prophÄ“teuō and laleinglōssais will pave the way for an interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14 which fits harmoniously into the general structure of the entire Corinthian Epistle, which does no violence to the language of the Greek text, and which provides a possible reason for what appear to be contradictions in the argument of Paul concerning "gifts.”

1 Propheteialalia

It can be shown that the term prophēteuō and its cognate nominal forms are used to depict description and definition far more than prediction.

2 It is also clear that Paul”Ÿs use of this root in 1 Corinthians refers, not to prediction and those who can predict, but to describers and
apologists.
3
Thus when Paul enjoined the Corinthians to seek the
pneumatika, especially the ability to "prophesy”
(14:1), it was not because he believed it was possible for every member of the congregation to predict the future, but because he thought that everyone could proclaim the gospel and so produce learning and comfort or exhortation (14:3). Accordingly, it is more proper to translate Greek prophëteub by English proclaim or preach than by prophesy or
predict . The importance of such a translation will be seen below.

Glossolalia

No phrase has received more attention in recent New Testament scholarship than the expression laleinglōssais
or lalein glōssē . For purposes of translation,
the simple English phrase"to speak in (a) tongue(s)”
may be accepted as accurate, if uninspired. And let it be noted that although the 16 adjective" unknown” does not appear in the Greek text, it is not at all out of place
in the context of the chapter.

Paul”Ÿs use of the phrase Laleinglōssais here in 1 Corinthians 14 must be sharply distinguished from Luke”Ÿs use of the same phrase in Acts 2. For Luke tells his
readers that he is describing the speaking in various languages or dialects (Acts 2:6, 8), which the presence of a
multilingual audience made necessary ; but Paul explains that glossolalia in Corinth involved the utterance of mystē
ria which "no one understands” (14:2). [Scripture quotations throughout are the author”Ÿs personal translations.]

The reason why no one can understand such utterance is that"
the person who speaks in a tongue is does not speak to people” (ho gar lalōnglōsse oukanthrōpois lalei). Thus it
is clear that Paul wanted to make a distinction between understandable the propheteialalia and nonunderstandable
glossolalia . Other points distinguish the one type
of speech from the other, but the main difference between the two is understandability. Toward an Interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14 An examination of the seven paragraphs which comprise 1 Corinthians 14 reveals that six of them specifically mention both of the types of speech
defined above, propheteialalia and glossolalia.

4 In paragraph one (14:1-5), Paul gives the following de
finitions of the two types of speech which he was considering. Glossolalia is nonunderstandable, mysterious,
self edifying, and inferior to preaching.

Propheteialalia is especially desirable, understandable, upbuilding, encouraging, consoling, edifying, and
superior to glossolalia. But even while he is busy writing such definitions, Paul makes the unusual statement:"I
want all of you to speak in tongues” (14:5a). Given the
definition which Paul had just listed for glossolalia
, is it at all strange that he quickly adds a condition?"
But even more [I want you] to prophesy” (14:5b).

Indeed, in the light of the way in which the apostle himself defined the two types of speech, one might well wonder how far Paul ”Ÿs own"tongue” was from his cheek when
he told his Corinthian readers that he wanted them to do something which he calls non-understandable, mysterious,
self-edifying, and inferior.

Paragraph two (14:6-12) contains the Pauline assertion that
glossolalia is of no benefit unless it is either apocalyptic, gnostic, prophetic, or didactic (14:6). In other words, Paul apparently felt that benefit could come only from that type of speaking which produced visions,
knowledge, gospel proclamation, or teaching. It is noteworthy that in the preceding paragraph Paul had specifically labeled glossolalia as none of the above.
Paul begins paragraph three (14:13
-
19) by stating that the person who speaks in a tongue (ho lalōn glōssÄ“) should pray for the ability to "interpret”
(14:13). This is not, as commonly supposed, a Pauline assertion that glossolalia is acceptable if someone, anyone,
"interprets.”

Rather, Paul”Ÿs idea is that the glossolalist himself should become an interpreter of his glossolalia.
The Greek verb diermÄ“neuō may mean either to "translate,”
to "explain,” or to "interpret.”

5 It is also used often to convey the idea of making
17 something understandable or clear.

6 Now it is obvious, according to Pail”Ÿs previous
statements, that the moment glossolalia becomes understandable, it ceases to be glossolalia by definition, for glossolalia is something wlich "no one understands”
(14:2). In other words, Paul, by telling his
reader; to exchange their ability at glossolalia
for powers of interpretation, has very clearly told
them to choose that other way of speaking, the way wh
ich produces understandability.

7 Once again in this paragraph, as in paragraph one, Paul makes a statement which the context simply will not allow to
be taken in a straightforward manner. "I thank God. I speak in tongues more than all of you” (14: 18). Some have contended that Paul means by this assertion that he speaks more languages than any Corinthian Christian.

8 But such a contention requires one to define Pauline
glossolalia as something different from Corinthian
glossolalia , which is manifestly non-understandable, as shown above. It is not unlikely that Paul here makes a statement which is so absurd in the context which
he has just created that no reader could mistake
his meaning. Phrased as a question, one might
ask: Can it be believed by serious - minded interpreters that the pragmatic Paul would actuall3 be thankful to God for the ability to do something which he has so vigorously deprecated? Perhaps a Pauline answer should be given: MÄ“
genoito! Rather, Paul preferred 5 mentally stimulating,
instructive words to 10,000 glossolalia words (14:19).

Thus while it is true that Paul made two statements like
"I want all of you to speak in tongues” and " I speak in tongues more than all of you,” it is equally true that Jesus told certain would - be disciples that they should
"hate” their families as well as their own lives (Luke 14:26).

It is the contention of the author that one should no more argue that Paul spoke in tongues and encouraged others
to do so than he should argue that Jesus hated His own family and His own life and wanted His disciples to fellow that example. In both cases, the context drastically alters
the meaning of apparently straightforward statements.

9 Paragraph four (14:20-25) involves two seemingly unrelated ideas. first, there is Paul”Ÿs citation of Isa. 28:11 (14:21). Then there is the discussion of what
glossolalia and propheteialalia respectively do in the ministry of the Church (14:22-25). Paul”Ÿs quotation of Isaiah may be included in this place becawe he wanted to explain an Old Testament passage which the Corinthians misunderstood and misapplied to their own situation.

10 But whatever Paul”Ÿs reason for including the quotation in this passage, modern interpreters can understand the Isaianic passage with little difficulty. Isaiah was tdling his nation of God”Ÿs method in teaching them lessons about sin and pride. To use John Bright”Ÿs very appropriate words,
"If they will not hear the lesson spelled out in plain Hebrew, then God will be forced to teach it to than in Assyrian!”

11 Far from qualifying as glossolalia, this babbling which
sounds like a child ”Ÿs silly prattle is the Assyrian language falling on ears accustomed to understandable Hebrew. au lauauauqau laqau qau laqau(Isa. 28:10).
This is an example of what Paul had stated earlier in the
chapter: 18 "There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning;but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me”(14:10
-
11). Accordingly, this quotation of the prophet could not
properly be used by the glossolalist to support his babbling."The strange tongues were indicative of God”Ÿ
s displeasure and judgment, not of His pleasure and blessing.”

12 Verse 22 of the fourth paragraph contains a statement which many modern interpreters have failed to understand properly. "Glossolalia is a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while propheteialalia is not for unbelievers but for believers.” This statement must be
understood as a straw man which Paul sets up for the purpose of knocking it down. Evidently it had been the contention of the Corinthians that they practiced
glossolalia in order to bring unbelievers to conversion. But Paul”Ÿs own opinion on the matter was exactly the opposite. Outsiders or unbelievers who hear
glossolalia will certainly say,"You are crazy”
(14:23). By contrast, an outsider or unbeliever who hears
propheteialalia will be "convicted by everyone,
called to account [for his unbelief] by everyone, the secrets of his heart will be revealed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is certainly among you”(14:24-25).

Once again, the context of the chapter warns against citation of any one statement standing alone. It is entirely incorrect to assert on the basis of verse 22 that
glossolalia affects unbelievers 13 and propheteialalia
affects believers, for it was precisely this error that Paul
”Ÿs illustrations sought to correct in the thinking of the Corinthians. The modern interpreter can safely assume that Paul accurately described the fruits produced by both types of speech. While glossolalia produces accusations of insanity, propheteialalia produces conviction and
conversion. Paragraph five (14:26-33a) has often been explained in terms of restrictions which Paul
placed upon glossolalia.

14 It is interesting to note the following facts about the differences which Paul saw between glossolalia and propheteialalia . First, he warned that no more than two or
three people should speak in tongues. By contrast, he assured his readers that all of them should proclaim the gospel in understandable speech (14:27, 31). Second, he repeated his admonition to the would - be glossolalist that an interpreter, the glossolalist himself, is necessary for his gift, an interpreter whose presence means that
glossolalia loses its most essential characteristic of non
-understandability (14:27c). By contrast, he specified the
propheteialalist as one whose work would be properly balanced by the other people who were also preaching the gospel along with him. There would be no confusion in such a situation and no interpreter was necessary (14:32-33a).
Paragraph six (14:33b-36) is the only paragraph in the chapter which does not set glossolalia and propheteialalia in contrast to each other.

15 But paragraph seven (14:37-40) contains some extremely interesting information. After having asserted the authority of his opinions in no uncertain terms (14:37-38), Paul drew two conclusions from this chapter on "speaking.”
Verse 39 is his first conclusion. But, unfortunately, there has been widespread agreement (sic!) about the proper way to translate the Greek text of 19 the verse. Without fail, translators have assumed a version very similar to the Revised Standard Version: 16" So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in
tongues.”

17 There are several problems which such a translation does not solve. First, there is the seemingly unrecognized fact that the Greek text does not contain a simple, uninterrupted phrase such as lalein glōssais. Rather, there is a complete grammatical unit which appears between the
two words so naturally spoken and written close together. The entire phrase is to lalein mēkōluete glōssais. Thus a normally simple phrase, lalein glōssais, is broken by a negative particle and an imperative.

18 Second, there is the matter of the meaning of the Greek verb kōluō. Translators have steadfastly assumed that it means "to forbid” in this verse. But kōluō does not always mean "forbid” and it is not always so translated elsewhere in the New Testament.

19 Of the many passages which could be cited in this regard, perhaps Acts 11:17 furnishes the clearest
example of another meaning which the word may carry: "If then God gave the same gift to them [the Gentiles] as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could kōlusai God?” Now Peter, the speaker in
this verse, certainly was not capable of "forbidding”
God to offer salvation to the Gentiles, but he could have hindered or impeded God”Ÿs efforts by
refusing to cooperate. This verse thus shows that
kōluō does not always mean "forbid.”

And since it does not always carry that meaning, it is fair to question whether that is its meaning in 1 Cor. 14:39.

20 Third, translators have failed to acknowledge the nominal quality of the articular infinitive to lalein. It is noteworthy that of the 16 times where the phrase lalein
glōssais/glōssē occurs in the New Testament, only
here is the articular infinitive attested.

21 This would seem to argue strongly in favor of reading substantively. More important is the fact that the counterpart of to lalein in the first half of the verse is to propheteuein. Both infinitives are direct objects,
each of the main verb in the clause, and both should be read as substantives. However, the substantival character of the infinitive does not depend upon the absence or presence of the article in koinē Greek. As A
. T. Robertson notes, "One naturally feels that the articular inf. is more substantival than the anarthrous . . . but that is not correct. The subject-inf. occurs freely
both with and without the article in the N.T.”

22 Thus the substantival quality of lale in in this
passage is assured, regardless of one”Ÿs text -critical judgment concerning the article.

23 Given the substanvital quality of to lalein, and given the fact that lalein elsewhere in the chapter refers
explicitly to propheteialalia,

24 it is certainly not incongruous to argue that to lalein
in verse 39 refers, not to glossolalia , but to propheteialalia. Given these three objections to the traditional or standard translation of the verse, it does
not seem improper to suggest the following version for co
nsideration: "So, my brothers, earnestly desire
propheteialalia,and do not impede propheteialalia with glossolalia”

Add to the three objections stated above the obvious fact that no one at Corinth was trying to forbid glossolalia
and it should be clear that this translation of the text would make verse 39 20 a fitting first conclusion to everything else which Paul had argued through
out the chapter. There are two types of speech. They differ in understandability. They differ in purpose. They differ in what they produce in unbelievers. They differ in the benefits which they bring to their adherents. One is confusion and insanity; the other is peace and conversion to God. One is restricted and restrictive; the other is unlimited and expansive.

Accordingly, when Paul drew a second conclusion from the debate over the ways in which one should speak, he believed it was enough to say this: "Everything should be done
properly and in an orderly fashion”(14:40). Can his Corinthian readers have had any doubts about which type of speaking would contribute to such propriety and order? Certainly they should not have misunderstood the thrust of Paul”Ÿs plea to them. It would have been highly
improper to allow glossolalia to impede or hinder
propheteialalia
.
REFERENCE NOTES
1
. I wish to thank my four responders
””
Professors Finley (Nazarene Theological Seminary), Thompson
(Marion College), McNeil (Asbury College), and Burgess (Bethel College)
””
for their criticism of my paper at the
annual meeting of the Wesleyan Theological Socie
ty, November 1, 1974. Some of the help which I received from
them will be apparent from the citation of their comments in several notes below.
2. Cf. Titus 1:12 for a classic example in New Testament literature. Another indication of this idea is the
appel
lation
"
prophetic
”
which is given to such historical books as Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings in the Hebrew
Bible. The Semitic terms which lie behind the Greek ones (Akkadian
nab
û
, Hebrew
nabi
”Ÿ
) indicate the same idea.
See in this regard W. F. Albright,
Archaeology and the Religion of Israel
(New York: Doubleday and Company,
Inc., Anchor Books, 5th ed., 1959), p. 23, and the references there. Albright has argued that a
nabi
”Ÿ
was
"
one who is
called [by God]
”
in a
"
transforming experience, as a result of wh
ich he was under special commission from Yahweh
to preach to his people.
”
See also the important article by Herbert B. Huffmon,
"
Prophecy in the Mari Letters,
”
Biblical Archaeologist
31, no. 4 (Dec., 1968): 101
-
24.
3. See especially 1 Cor. 13:9, where Paul
has described
"
prophecy
”
as
ek merous
, i.e.,
"
imperfect
”
or
"
partial.
”
Other verses which are important in this connection include 1 Cor. 14:24
-
25, where Paul argues that
"
prophecy
”
or proclamation produces conviction, confession, and conversion of the un
believer.
4. Dividing with the Revised Standard Version. Note that paragraph six (14: 33b
-
36) mentions only
"
speaking
”
(
lalein
) without distinguishing either
glossolalia
or
propheteialalia
.
5. Arndt and Gingrich,
A Greek
-
English Lexicon of the New Testamen
t and Other Early Christian
Literature
(Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1957), p. 193.
6. See particularly Luke 24:27, where Jesus explains or interprets the Hebrew Scriptures to the disciples.
7. In this regard, Professor McNeil asked whether one co
uld distinguish between
"
interpreted
”
glossolalia
and
propheteialalia
. I would argue as follows: For Paul, any kind of speaking should be understandable to be of
value in the church.
Propheteialalia
aims at understandability as part of its raison
d
”Ÿ
ê
tre.
G
lossolalia
, however, has
to be
"
interpreted
”
to be understood, at which time it ceases by definition to be
glossolalia
. If the end product,
understandability, may finally be achieved by either process, one wonders why the Corinthians would not choose the
d
irect and straightforward method of
propheteialalia
from the beginning. Again, it should be remembered that
21
the glossolalist and the interpreter are to be the same person, so the understandability is achieved by one person
going a longer, two
-
step route.
Paul
”Ÿ
s point seems to be that during the
glossolalia
stage of this process much
misunderstanding of the message of the gospel will result. That is why Paul prefers the direct route of
propheteialalia
.
8. For example, Harvey J. S. Blaney,
"
St. Paul
”Ÿ
s Postu
re on Speaking in Unknown Tongues,
”
Wesleyan
Theological Journal
8 (spring, 1973):
57. W. T. Purkiser also takes a similar position.
"
I Corinthians 14 is clearly
designed to limit if sot to forbid speaking in languages not locally understood [italics mine]
unless the speaking be
accompanied by interpretation
”
(
Is There a Prayer Language?
Kansas City: Nazarene Publishing House, reprinted
from the
Nazarene Preacher
, September, 1971).
9. Dr. Finley brought to my attention an event in the career of Micaiah ben
Imlah which bears out the
practice in Semitic literature of saying precisely the opposite of what is meant. Micaiah, famed for his negative
oracles and hated by King Ahaz because
"
he never prophesies good
”
(1 Kings 22:8), said the opposite of what he
meant
to Ahaz in an attempt to highlight the ridiculous nature of the battle planned jointly by Ahaz and Jehoshaphat
(see 1 Kings 22:15). I would like to add two examples from the Book of Job. Job
”Ÿ
s wife told him to
"
bless
”
(
sic!
)
God and die,
barekh
”ž
e
l
ohim va
mut
(Job 2:9), although what she really meant was that he should curse God for his
misfortune. That Job did not lack the ability to utter curses about his fate may be seen in Job 3:2
-
26. Later in the
book, Job
"
compliments
”
his friends with these words:
"
I
ndeed you are the people and with you wisdom will die
”
(Job 12:2). But his rebuttal of virtually everything they said shows how little confidence he actually had in their
wisdom.
10. Professor McNeil made the following observation in reference to this part
of my paper:
"
Do you not
first need to establish what the apparent spiritual state of the Corinthian readers is (cf. 1:2, 5, 10; 3:1, 3; 6:11; 14:20;
e.g.) before you can identify them with the
”ž
unbelievers
”Ÿ
(or anyone else) of Isa. 28:10
-
11?
”
This questi
on does not
apply to my argument concerning the Corinthians. I am not identifying the Corinthians with anyone in Isaiah
”Ÿ
s day,
but am arguing that the reason for Paul
”Ÿ
s citation of the Isaianic passage must be to show his readers that the
prophet
”Ÿ
s words d
escribing the strange sounds of the Assyrian language cannot apply to their
glossolalia
utterances.
11. John Bright,
The Kingdom of God
(New York: Abingdon Press, 1953), p. 84.
12. Blaney,
Wesleyan Theological Journal
8:58.
13. Indeed,
glossolalia
might be
said to affect unbelievers, but adversely.
14. Blaney,
Wesleyan Theological Journal
8:57. See also Merrill F. Unger,
New Testament Teaching on
Tongues
(Grand Rapids: Kregel Publications, 1971), pp. 119
-
34.
15. Dr. Thompson stated his opinion that this pa
ragraph should have bee
n
discussed more fully. I did not
give it much space because, as I have stated, it does not offer any information about the contrasting nature of
glossolalia
and
propheteia
l
alia
.
16. Blaney,
Wesleyan Theological Journal
8:58, does of
fer a different suggestion, but his idea, obtained
from the writer of this paper in a private conversation, is more a paraphrase than a translation. Be it noted here that
the author has discussed this particular verse with and received assistance from Rev.
Sherrill Munn and Professor
Robert D. Branson.
17. Among the English versions which translate similarly are: Wiclif (1380), Tyndale (1525), Cranmer
(1539), The Great Bible (1539), Geneva Bible (1560), Bishops
”Ÿ
Bible (1568), Authorized Version (1611), Revi
sed
Version (1881), Revised Standard Version (1946) and
New American Standard Bible
(1960). In addition, Segond
”Ÿ
s
La Sainte Bible
(1963);
El Nuevo Testamento
, published by Gideons International (
n
.d.); and Luther
”Ÿ
s
Die Bibel
translate similarly in French,
Spanish, and German respectively.
22
18. Professor McNeil noted that
laleō
and
gl
ō
ssa
appear together 16 times in the New Testament
(excluding Mark 16:17). Twelve times the phrase is used by Paul, 10 in 1 Corinthians 14. Of some importance is his
comment tha
t the two words are separated
"
in four other instances (Acts 2:4, 11; 1 Cor. 13:1; 14:27) by adjectives,
pronouns, and/or nouns, but in no other instance by so weighty a unit as the verb.
”
McNeil concludes from this
information that
"
the separation [in 1 C
or. 14:39] may or may not be significant. Context will have to be the final
authority, and much hinges on the interpretation of earlier portions of the chapter.
”
Dr. Thompson also felt that I was
"
too bothered
”
by this interruption of the phrase. In respon
se to their criticism, I call attention to the problems which
some ancient s
cribes had with the phrase, par
ticularly the fact that several manuscripts (D* G it
d, e,
g
syr
p
, h, pal
K 88
104 181, etc.) moved
m
Ä“
k
ō
luete
from its position between
lalein
and
gl
ō
ssais
, apparently because their copyists,
too, were bothered by the interruption. The strength of the present reading is based upon two early uncials
(Sinaiticus and Alexandrinus) and, omitting
to
, the second
-
century Chester Beatty Papyrus. It was my frie
nd
Professor Hal Cauthron who advised me to investigate the manuscript evidence on this verse in support of my
contention that
m
Ä“
k
ō
luete
occupies an unusual position.
19. Dr. Thompson called to my attention the numerous places where the RSV has rendered
k
ō
lu
ō
other than
"
forbid,
”
notably Heb. 7:23.
20. For this translation of
kōluō
, though not of the entire phrase, see
Expositor
”Ÿ
s Greek Testament
, 2:917.
21. Professor McNeil called this fact to my attention.
22. A. T. Robertson,
A Grammar of the Greek New
Testament in the Light of Historical Research
(Nashville: Broadman Press, 4th ed., 1934), p. 1058.

sermonindex Dec 1, 2013

For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
(1 Corinthians 14:2-5, ESV)


Speaking in tongues today represents self glorification and self esteem. I don't believe this is within the context of the believer and the church. One should think of others more than themselves (phil 2:3). Prophesying is better than tongues, unless one interprets. Is this done in the churches? NOPE...most are all caught up in some for of "tongues" that seems more ecstatic and careless. No one interprets and if scripture is true, and we know it is...you shouldn't be speaking in tongues unless two more to interpret and if not you are to be silent. And if a non believer shows up and everyone speaks in tongues won't they think you are out of your minds? Why is this so ignored when people who claim to talk in tongues in the church and think its okay?

Lifeless instruments have distinct notes and sounds they have a meaning."And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?" 2 Cor 14:8

"So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air." Isn't this what goes on? Everyone speaking in the air with no meaning or understanding. And for the edifying of themselves. Your mind is unfruitful, I would rather speak intelligible words with understanding to instruct than to utter ten thousands words with no meaning.

"Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue." Shouldn't this be enough? Nope because to many covet and treat tongues as an idol and the "works and justification" in their relationship and position with God.

I used to speak in tongues in my early Christian walk and as time went on, God began to show me and convict me of this. I do believe that there was tongues and maybe there still is, but I do not believe that it is what is going on today was the same in NT. I have seen to many fellow believers get so worked up that they don't speak in "tongues", they see everyone else doing it and ask themselves if I am born again and why doesn't God give it to me? Don't you see that this sort of thinking is destructive to the believer? there is nothing edifying about it when others go away feeling cheated, unloved and confused.

P
PaulWest Dec 1, 2013

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I used to speak in tongues in my early Christian walk and as time went on, God began to show me and convict me of this. I do believe that there was tongues and maybe there still is, but I do not believe that it is what is going on today was the same in NT.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I used to speak in tounges in my early Christian walk as well, and as an AG youth pastor, consented to all 14 fundamentals - including tongues as the intial evidence of Holy Spirit baptism. I can admit to this now, having long ago disassociated myself from the pentecostal movement: every time I spoke in tongues I had the irksome sensation that I was doing something that was unreal.

Being a Russian linguist and somewhat of a polyglot with knowldge of German, Italian and Spanish (and not to mention an anglophile in my own native tongue), I was pretty sure the syllables I was stringing together was not a real grammatic language, but rather sporadic dollups of emotionally-induced babble.

I kept at it, nevertheless, because, as pentecostals this was what we were supposed to do when the atmosphere got hot in the meetings. Everyone else's babble basically sounded the same too; the only difference was the intonation of the syllable-jumbling and stuttering. When more than one spoke, the resulting cacophony could be downright spooky; the little kids would actually get scared!

This, of course, cannot be of God, but when you are young in the faith, it is not so obvious. I am not saying tongues have ceased, but I suspect that 98% of what we hear today is fake soulbabble. This soulspeak is, by and large, undiscerned by pastors (because of the implications if someone were "fingered" one Sunday morning as a fake tongue-talker - it would then be open season on every instance of glossalalia every Sunday morning) and the house of pentecost would be divided. In other words, it is much more expedient to let the Emperor go on believing he is clothed with the gift.

L
Lysa Dec 2, 2013


I still stand by what I wrote because, what I got out of the LONG article was the rules and regulations of how tongues were used in the Bible which obviously is how they should be used today! But I didn’t read it all b/c every time I did, I saw another rule (how ”“to) and it didn’t sit right.

My pastor from years ago also said, "If you say you don’t believe in something (like tongues), then you cast your lot with the unbelievers. Just say you don’t understand.” More people should take this high road.

S
Sree Dec 2, 2013

I agree with sister Lysa. This arcile is flawed. There are too many assumptions to prove a point that Tongue is a medium of language to men. This might sound a right to a person of untrained mind, but a person like me who is used to placing logical arguments this article is a joke.


It is obvious from the context of 1 Corinthians 14 that the purpose of speaking in tongues, or foreign languages, is to communicate the gospel and thereby edify the church. If the listeners do not understand the spoken language they cannot be edified.

There are verses in 1 Cor 14 like verse 13 that clearly says that Tongues are for self edification, which means it is addressed to God. A language spoken addressing to men is used to edify listeners but not self. Also asking to pray for interpretation means that the interpretation of tongues is also a gift, you do not need gifts to translate a human language. Only a divine language needs such gift.

1 Cor 14:2 clearly says that "For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God;" - Tongue is not always meant for men to understand. But this article totally avoids verses 1 to 5 of 1 Cor 14.

I agree with Paul Wests post as well, I have heard from people who have the real gift of Speaking in tongues that most of the tongues they heard are fake. Like Brother Zac Poonen who admits that he has the gift to speak in tongues. Also the tongues that I have heard never sounded like a language, the frequent repetition of syllables make it sound like a rhyming music rather than a meaningful communication.

Regarding this article and people who debate on tongues, do you have the real gift to make a point on the gift? If not then you are like a blind man who is trying to define color. Absolutely useless.

A
AbideinHim Dec 2, 2013

It is a shame when a moderator on this
site bases his conclusions concerning
speaking in tongues from his own personal
experience and not from scripture.

My experience in praying in tongues and
Being around others that move in the gift
and interpretation of tongues is one that
is based on reality and is in line with the
scriptures.

The abuse and misuse of tongues does in
No way negate it's reality, edification to the
believer, and a most valuable means of
prayer and intercession.

Mike

P
PaulWest Dec 2, 2013

It is a shame when a moderator on this
site bases his conclusions concerning
speaking in tongues from his own personal
experience and not from scripture.

Dear brother, what does being a moderator have to do with the shame of sharing my experience? As I said, I am not a cessationist. I believe there are real tongues out there, just like there are real Holy Spirit healings, but there are also (and I hope you would agree) fake tongues and psychosomatic healings. In line with scripture, I test the spirits and unfortunately find failing scores most of the time in this area.

By what criteria are you judging they are real?

Brother Paul

M
murrcolr Dec 2, 2013

I remember the first time I heard the sweet dulcet tones of singing in tongues, I knew I had enter the house of God as it they sounded angelic to me. But that’s in the church I went to, and I can’t speak for the church that Paul attended. When I speak in tongues I am built up in my spirit, I do feel stronger and is usually during this time of prayer I find I get answers to the situations I face.

I can say that when I first spoke in tongues, unlike most I can say it was after being blown on by a wind, not that I am anyone special, I am not, but that’s the way God decided to do it with me. However I personally take comfort in this, as I am steadfast and sure that what I got came from heaven and is not false.

However that experience did not cleanse my heart from sin, so although I was blown on by a wind and filled with the Spirit and spoke in tongues, I am convinced that it’s not the Baptism of the Spirit as in Acts 2. Was I changed, yes radically changed, do I operate in the gifts yes, am I fit for service, no most defiantly no.

Show me a man that’s been filled with the Spirit as in Acts 2 and you’ll find a man with a clean heart, a Holy man. He will not be like the showmen that we have in the church today, that are prone to hype up what’s going on and in doing so promote themselves (the flesh has not been crucified). No he would good, humble, gentle, full of joy, full of love and in control of self and he would promote Christ and his Kingdom.

sermonindex Dec 2, 2013

Quote:
Reformer said...

"I used to speak in tongues in my early Christian walk and as time went on, God began to show me and convict me of this. I do believe that there was tongues and maybe there still is, but I do not believe that it is what is going on today was the same in NT. I have seen to many fellow believers get so worked up that they don't speak in "tongues", they see everyone else doing it and ask themselves if I am born again and why doesn't God give it to me? Don't you see that this sort of thinking is destructive to the believer? there is nothing edifying about it when others go away feeling cheated, unloved and confused."

What is up with these anti-tongues threads? I don't see any threads (are there any lately) being started to tell people they MUST speak in tongues, but there are a few threads where tongues is not only discouraged but discounted as well. This is a disturbing pattern.

With all due respect reformer...what do you hope to achieve with these comments? What good can possibly come from them? I get it that you personally no feel uncomfortable speaking in tongues, but why go on and "drop a doody" on everyone else? Just because you feel uncomfortable, must we also?

Based on your observations you are also suggesting that most, if not all speaking in tongues today is false. And this is because you say so? How would you know this, do you and you alone have the mind of the Lord? This is a dangerous position to elevation yourself to.

Why not just leave this subject alone? Just walk away...if you don't believe in speaking in tongues or have changed your mind about it, then that's fine, but why attempt to throw others, especially young believers into confusion or put a label on others and make them out to also being fakes like you were? Can you see that your comments are not edifying at all?

"I do not believe that it is what is going on today was the same in NT."

This is your opinion and you are probably correct in many cases of modern charismania, but I would still caution you to be careful with rash generalizatioins. This is a murky subject that is difficult to understand via scriptural interpretation but that does not mean that real, genuine speaking in tongues has not happened and does not happen today and it may even sound like gibberish to others.

If a believer is rattled in their faith that Jesus is the one who baptizes them in the Holy Spirit, and grants them the gift of tongues, then it is also possible that we can unwittingly rattle them about their very salvation too! Did you really sense the "witness of the Spirit" when you were born again? Do you see how this brings uneccessary confusion to others.

This line of reasoning does far more damage to young believers than if we just work it out quietly between the Lord and ourselves and let others do the same. If they are born again then the Lord who is in them will show them that they are faking something or they have the real gift of tongues...they don't need you or I to be the judge of that.

"I have seen to many fellow believers get so worked up that they don't speak in "tongues", they see everyone else doing it and ask themselves if I am born again and why doesn't God give it to me?"

This sounds to me like there is a lack of teaching or wrong teaching on the gifts of the Spirit. I have never encountered a single person who doubted their salvation because they did not speak in tongues, and I was a part of the charasmatic/penticostal movement for decades.

I do not deny your conviction about your own experience (of course) and I also agree with you in regard to modern day charismatic "flakefests" that this kind of thing might happen but there are just as many genuine cases of people speaking in tongues all over the world and and just as many cases of people not getting bent out of shape because they "didn't get to speak in tongues like Tommy".

"Don't you see that this sort of thinking is destructive to the believer? there is nothing edifying about it when others go away feeling cheated, unloved and confused."

Don't you see that your rash generalizations might also be destructive to young believers? Again, I agree that the public exhibitionism of flaky, tongue talkers is as fake as a 3 dollar bill, but there are many, many broken, surrendered believers (even in the west) who have the real thing...so I don't think it is helpful to "tar and feather" those with the genuine gift because of the flakes who have the counterfeit.

If you want to use anecdotal rational to establish a point of view, you will find yourself in an endless debate. My friendly advice is to just be content with your own lot and let others be content with theirs:)

If however you have an agenda, which to be honest, it is sounding like you do have one, then I (and I am sure others) will exit this discussion very quickly and leave you to the arguing. If you want to learn, there are many gracious and Christlike members on this forum (and yes many of them also speak in tongues), who are willing to give up their time to "instruct you more accurately" concerning these matters. The ball is in your court!

A
AbideinHim Dec 2, 2013

Dear brother Paul,

I appreciate you, Greg, and the other moderators. I believe that you all have done a wonderful job in moderating this website.

You all have a tremendous responsibility, because in being leaders, you are looked up to, and your opinion is highly valued.

I probably agree with you on 95% of what is discussed on these forums. I don't intend on making an issue on the 5% that we disagree on.

In His Love,

Mike

P
PaulWest Dec 2, 2013

I probably agree with you on 95% of what is discussed on these forums. I don't intend on making an issue on the 5% that we disagree on.

Amen dear brother. 95% is pretty impressive! I can't think of any one person (preacher/teacher of God's Word, no matter how illustrious) with whom I agree with 100%. I don't even agree with myself 100% after a few years, as my understanding of spiritual matters is always being tweaked and rearranged as more light is progressively given.

I want you to know that I love you in the Lord, and always appreciate your contributions. I find them substantially scriptural, inspirational, full of grace and truth.

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