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"The promise of the Father"

M
murrcolr Dec 1, 2013

"The promise of the Father"

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8

Pentecostals teach this is an empowering experience distinct from baptism into the body of Christ. In this baptism, Christ is the agent and the Holy Spirit is the medium.

Pentecostals expect certain results following baptism with the Holy Spirit. Some of these are immediate while others are enduring or permanent. Some Pentecostal denominations teach that speaking in tongues is immediate or initial physical evidence that one has received the experience.

Other immediate evidences include giving God praise, having joy, and desiring to testify about Jesus. Enduring or permanent results in the believer's life include Christ glorified and revealed in a greater way, a "deeper passion for souls", greater power to witness to nonbelievers, a more effective prayer life, greater love for and insight into the Bible, and the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit.

But is that all the Baptism with the Holy Spirit or is there more?

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Matthew 3 11-12

When the chaff had been separated from the grain so that the wheat was well trodden and the seeds were free from their encumbrances, then the winnowers would toss the grain up in the air, letting the wind separate the chaff and blow it away. The breeze would let the grain drop, but it would blow most of the chaff away from the threshing floor. Workers would gather any chaff which hadn’t been blown away, and they would burn it.

John the Baptist is saying what the Lord Jesus will do: "He will thoroughly purge His floor. There will be nothing lost, neither the wheat nor the chaff. The wheat He will gather into His garner, His silo, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire. This is God giving us his own indication of the Holy Spirit as cleansing fire.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. Acts 2:3

Don’t forget this part! But many do forget, and major on the speaking in tongues. Why doesn’t anyone talk about the tongues of fire that came down? It’s the promise of the Father. Why do we leave the fire out? I put it to that the carnal mind doesn’t mind speaking in tongues, but the carnal mind strongly objects to being destroyed by the baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire.

Not convinced?

Peter's speech before the council in Jerusalem. He is telling what happened to Cornelius and his fellow-Gentiles when the Holy Spirit fell on them; and this is what he says: "And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us: and He made no distinction between us and them, CLEANSING their hearts by faith." Now here is a declaration, as plain as language could well make it, that the baptism with the Holy Ghost, the Pentecostal blessing, cleansed the Jewish Apostles and disciples, and also cleansed the hearts of the Gentiles, and that God bore witness to the cleansing.

The Greek verb used for "cleansing their hearts" is verb katharizo. An older form of the verb is kathairo. Both are derived from the adjective katharos, which means "clean," "pure," "unsoiled," "upright," "void of evil."

We find the adjective used in the following passages:

Matt. 5:8," Blessed are the pure in heart;" I Tim. 1:5, "Out of a pure heart;" I Tim. 3:9, "In a pure conscience;" 2 Tim. 2:22," Out of a pure heart;" James 1:27, "Pure religion and undefiled;" Rev. 15:6, "Pure and white linen;" Rev. 21:18, "Pure gold;" Rev. 22:1, "Pure river of water."

Now we will take up our verb "katharizo," which we have seen used in Acts 15:9.

The meanings given to it in the lexicon, "to cleanse," "to render pure," "to cleanse from leprosy," "to free from the influence of error or sin." It is used three times in the following passage (Matt. 8:2, 3): "And, behold, there came a leper, and worshiped Him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus put forth His hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed."

Let's not focus on the gifts but the fruit unto holiness..

S
staff Dec 2, 2013

Hi Murrcolr,
I guess I am one of the only ones on SI that is against to a degree the "ten shekels and a shirt" theology regarding holiness.
I do think holiness or being set apart for God is a process and not in one since happens when we are born of the Spirit but it is also a life long process.The closer our relationship with God the better all is.
As regards the gifts I think they are underplayed.Basically we cant be perfected,edified or do ministry work.We cant come to the unity of the faith etc without them
Yours Staff

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

sermonindex Dec 2, 2013

Is this right:

There is receiving the Holy Spirit, like when the apostles first received Him when Jesus breathed on them:

And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit."
(John 20:22 NASB)

and there is a "Baptism of Spirit and Fire":

...He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
(Luke 3:16 NASB)

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
(Acts 2:4 NASB)

Are we disagreeing about the Baptism of the Spirit or whether the Baptism of the Spirit purifies away sin?

M
murrcolr Dec 2, 2013

Quote: Are we disagreeing about the Baptism of the Spirit or whether the Baptism of the Spirit purifies away sin?

I am not disagreeing; I am trying to find the truth in the scripture and would like others views and inputs, saying that my back ground would be Pentecostal/Charismatic and have been told that the empowering experience is distinct from baptism into the body of Christ.

So you understand where I am coming from, when I was converted I was in my room and a physical wind blew into my body after which I spoke in tongues since then I have operated in the different gifts of the Spirit. However I would say that I am far from being clean and that I am not pure in heart.

From my Pentecostal/Charismatic view then I got it all at conversion, however I now find that view challenged that I didn’t get it all conversion because my heart is not pure. I remember sitting in church as a young Christian thinking about the calling on my life and thinking God you’re going to have to an additional work on me as I am not fit for service.

Many years later I took up that challenge and asked God about an additional work; at the same time I started looking at men of god’s life of the past to shed some light on the matter. This was when I got hold on Duncan Campbell’s and found that he had experienced a deeper work of the spirit prior to service, which was a cleansing of the Spirit rather than the ‘empowering experience’, which I was taught the baptism of the Spirit was.

So what is the promise of the Father is it empowering experience or a cleansing of heart by faith or both? What does the scripture say?

Quote: I guess I am one of the only ones on SI that is against to a degree the "ten shekels and a shirt" theology regarding holiness.

I don’t follow you can you explain?

Quote: As regards the gifts I think they are underplayed.Basically we cant be perfected,edified or do ministry work.We cant come to the unity of the faith etc without them.

Yes and I don’t underplay them apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors or the Spiritual gifts prophecy, healing etc etc. What I am saying that as a gift ”“ to the body we should be interested in dealing with that carnal tendency, prior to stepping out into the ministry. We should be taking more interest in our heart condition, rather than operating in the gifts of the spirit, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t desire the gifts, it just means that we should be desire to clean and pure as well.

sermonindex Dec 2, 2013

I am not disagreeing; I am trying to find the truth in the scripture and would like others views and inputs,

we are on the same page. I am looking into (and seeking) baptism of the Spirit and/or a purifying work by the Spirit. I have been enjoying the conversations about second blessing, Spirit baptism, entire sanctification, sinless perfection. I think there are good reasons people believe these doctrines.

I do believe whatever the intended meaning of scripture is, it will yield the best fruit/results. whatever that interpretation may be.

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