And where is the Outrage???????

sermonindex Jan 2, 2014

When a major company started by a Christian comes under attack by the LBGT their is outrage and furor from the church. The saints rush out to buy a chicken sandwich to show their support for this company.

When a TV celebrity who professes to be a Bible tbumper comes under attack by the LBGT for comments he made regarding the gay lifestyle. Declaring it to be sin. There is outrage from the church. And a cable channel gets flooded with righteous indignant calls declaring support for said personality.

When there is an attack on a Kenyan shopping mall or a Pakistani church there is a deafening silence from the church. When there is a wholesale slaughter of Christian saints across the globe there is s deafening silence from the church. We hear the likes of Prince Charles or Vladimer Putin speak out against Christian persecution. Even if it is for grandstanding. They are saying something. The American church is saying nothing.

During WWII a story came out of Germany. There was a Lutheran church located near some railroad tracks. The death trains that carried the Jews to extermination passed by the church on those tracks. Whenever the trains passed by the Jews in the cattle cars cried out to tbose inside the church for help. Those inside the church would sing louder to drown out the Jewish pleas for help.

Does our silence drown out the cries of the persecuted for our prayers? To be remembered? I ask again. Where is the outrage for our persecuted brethren.

Blaine Scogin
Persecution Watch.

D

DEADn Jan 2, 2014

Post has me lost. Examples are given of people and the outrage they demonstrate when there is Christian persecution of some kind and then it end by asking ' Does our silence drown out the cries of the persecuted to our prayers?' and ' where is the outrage for our persecuted brethren?' Now, what did I miss in translation here?

sermonindex Jan 2, 2014

Only that we are selective in the persecution we speak out for. When the well known Christian celebs are under attack there is outrage from the American church. But when unknown defenseless saints are killed in a church bombing in Pakistan or Iraq. It is yawn.

Now for my favorite Christian chicken sandwhich as I watch my favorite Christian reality show on a certain cable channel.

Blaine

sermonindex Jan 2, 2014

Are we supposed to walk in "outrage" all the time? You could do that everyday in this world. Outrage can harden your heart against your very own brethren who are not as "outraged" as you. Are we now vying for who can be outraged the most?

Should we not walk in righteousness, peace and joy, instead?

We know the world is anti-Christ? Why the outrage about it?

I think constantly being in outrage will affect your spirit and your walk of peace.

Jesus was moved with indignation and I think we can be moved with indignation, too. But, Jesus did not walk in indignation. It was a momentary attitude not a daily walk.

Today, too many Christians are walking in some form of outrage.

I have read most all of Richard Wurmbrand's books and "outrage" does not characterize him and neither does it characterize the Lord Jesus. Why should it characterize us?

sermonindex Jan 2, 2014

Brother I am simply saying the American church is more concerned over her celebreties who cone under attack than over those who spill their blood for Christ in foreign nations.

The silence of Thw American church over the slaughter of brethren in foreign nations is similarr to the silence of the German church over the slaughter of the Jews.

My thoughts.

Blaine

D

DEADn Jan 2, 2014

What practical things do you think the American church should be doing for awareness that isn't being done now?
Many on this board believe the American church is asleep so if I follow that reasoning then we should be grateful that any awareness and action is done from raised voices in the American church.

In other countries I am going to guess that the Christians there probably are simply praying for the persecuted because their government has more pressing issues. Yet in the middle of it all, how much tunnel vision should be have in being an activist for it while maintaining our own hearts in God especially if circumstances get worse and worse. Does this make sense?

i.e. I had a post a while back about North Korea. What government can do anything about the persecuted Christians there? And yet I read stories in which the Christians there are praying for everyone else. How that is possible it beyond me especially seeing that NK kills Christians.

sermonindex Jan 3, 2014

Hi Bear,

I think there are better ways to raise awareness of the Church than to constantly chastise and denigrate them.

Just some humble food for thought, bro.

J

jujashan4 Jan 3, 2014

Hey Blaine,
Paul said,"remember those in prison as if you were in prison yourself".
I think what your getting at is that we should be praying for our persecuted brothers and sisters.
Brother I (and the Lord as well I reckon) say a hearty "amen!" to that.
I (by the Lord's encouragement) meet regularly with some other brothers to pray and occasionally we pray for our brother's in Nth Korea, China etc.

sermonindex Jan 3, 2014

Voice of the Martyrs has a very good program in place for raising awareness of the Church. They have been using this program for years and you can volunteer in your area to be a representative which goes into churches to speak and raise awareness. This is an ambassador position for VOM and I have spoken to VOM before and don't think the position includes chastising the Church for their other activities or comparing their other activities as less important than praying for or giving to persecuted brethren.

P

PaulWest Jan 3, 2014

The problem is that we are classifying the contemporary conservative right-wing moral climate of America as the "church" simply because they hold in profession to ecumenical Christo-Judean tenets. When these voices take a stand against things like homosexual opposition to organizations like Chick-fil-A and Duck Dynasty, a caricature is drawn in which the whole movement is seen as Christian, and then we expect these "voices" to play the same uncompromising Christian role in other areas. When they do not meet our expectations (like group-praying for Korean prisoners or giving x-amount of dollars to "xyz" ministries) we express our consternation at the whole system and end up castigating the real church, which has been praying and giving all along - in secret - just as Jesus taught. The argument in this thread therefore is flawed on two fronts, but I do understand the point and can commiserate with Blaine's heartache.

But I am not fooled. There is real and there is whitewash. We must not confuse the two and impose anger upon a blindman for failing to distinguish the rainbow. The flow is going in a natural direction with the current of the conservative moral standard (that is, as long as it doesn't too inconvenience their wallets or time or touch their families personally). We must never confuse the American moral right-wing as born-again children of God. Some may be; but the vast majority are not, and this I can assure you from their unrepentant fruit. And for those who are born-again children of God, we must take equal care as well in not putting them on guilt trips to perform externally, whether it be time-calculation in terms of prayer, or money-calculation in terms of giving for we have no knowledge of another Christian's secret dealings of prayer and giving to God.

O

Oracio Jan 3, 2014

Amen brother Paul. I too would humbly submit that there may very well be quite a few believers who are crying out to God for the persecuted church, but who do not show it that publically. I'll use myself as a case in point. Because I have to babysit my two small children during the time of the conference calls I have not been able to participate though I have had a desire to.

sermonindex Jan 3, 2014

Yes, Paul and that is why we should define more clearly who we are talking about rather than painting a broad brush, for instance "the Western Church".

Yes, we could lambast the lukewarm or worldly church, everyday and be in "outrage" over them, everyday.

It is very difficult, no impossible to separate the goats from the sheep without harming the sheep or separating the tares from the wheat without harming the wheat and maybe that is why Jesus told us not to engage in such activities. Look at the damage that John MacArthur did not only to the church but to himself when he has set himself up in ministry as a "reaper". No man can be a "reaper". We need the Holy Spirit to give us wisdom and discernment not a man who tells us who is a real Christian and who is not.

As Jesus indicated, just let them all grow up until the end and let the "reapers" separate them according to God's direction. Preach the gospel, teach the truth and let those who have ears to hear respond, but don't attack large segments of people because they ostensibly don't pray for the persecuted (how would we know what someone does, anyway) or are Charismatic (as in John MacArthur's case). I find preaching the pure gospel and walking in love to be more effective than to attack large segments of people. But that's just me.

Even Jesus did not alienate the Pharisees. He continually spoke with them and tried to lead them to Him, but they "would not come to Him that they might have life". If they were alienated from Him, it was only because of their own sin and attitude, not because He rejected them. He rejected their doctrine but not them as they could always come to Him.

I don't know if anyone understands what I am saying, so let me just say that the fall alienated men from God and Jesus brought men back into fellowship through grace and truth. To be sure, His truth can be hard and difficult, and preaching the gospel offends the flesh, but His heart is not hard towards the sinner. I'll just let it lay right there and may the Lord help us to see how we should relate to one another, the lukewarm and to the world.

I also know that Bearmaster's heart is most likely in the right place and he is using the example of Chic-fil-a and Duck Dynasty to illustrate something that is bothering him. Just like you used this topic to express important points that are on your heart and I used this topic to express important points, too. No man has all the truth but together the Lord uses His Body to bring us into agreement with wisdom from above.

Let me also say, that writing as a medium is difficult for many of us and if we were in a room together, we would have hashed all this out in 30 minutes.

Blessings to everyone in the New Year.

T

turn Jan 7, 2014

Where is the prayer? Hopefully, there is much prayer in the prayer closets where God alone can see and hear (Matthew 6:6).

When injustices are being done, "shall not God avenge his own elect, who cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them" (Luke 18:7)?

God has called us be slow to anger and slow to wrath and to be patient and forbearing.

Outrage is a form of rage and anger.

Proverbs 14:29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath.

God is delaying the revelation of his wrath and anger against sin and injustice (Romans 2:5). But, the time of God's vengeance (Romans 12:19) will come. Now is the time that God continues to extend his mercy to those who will walk by faith.

Pray for God to display His righteous wrath when the time comes: Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name. (Psalm 79:6)

sermonindex Jan 7, 2014

We have been praying for the oersecuted church on Persecution Watch every njght through the month of Dec. Now we are in our second. 31 night watch through Jan. Those calls are sometime posted by Greg.

Our calls meet 8pm central time. Number is 559.726.1300. Access code is 340296#. You are surely invited to come and oray with us.

Blaine

T

turn Jan 8, 2014

Thank you, bearmaster, for the personalized invitation but I prefer to keep my praying in the closet and local church prayer meeting and off the street corners and phone lines for now.

I do have my prayer lists though and God who hears. I will be praying.

A

andres Jan 8, 2014

What about having a march and Public Prayer for Our Christian Brothers in some Big City ..

Mabey some 2 day rally in Some Large City.. that would bring some attention to our Christian Brothers in peril around the World..

Mabey it could even bring Unity among God's elect in the the United States..
May Christ receive Glory
some Thoughts
andy

R

roadsign Jan 8, 2014

I see different issues being raised ”“ 1) the problem of apathy toward the persecuted - and 2) the problem of sheep being mixed with goats. I see another problem raised too - one of a more personal nature. It’s about managing 1) our inward grief and anger over injustices and 2) managing our passion to correct/fix the problems.

In the face of unchecked injustice, silence itself seems unjust. Yet silence can also reflect genuine trust in God. Consider Amos 5:13:

"Therefore the prudent man keeps quiet during such times, for the times are evil.”

There are times when speaking out merely increases our woes and hinders God’s work. It destroys the peace and rest which God has placed within us ”“ to which we are called.

It’s true that persecution, the most horrendous holocaust ever, gets little attention from the affluent world. But maybe God can get by without their help. He can do more with a few pray-ers whom He has called, then hordes of pray-ers whom man has called.

Like Abraham we can take matters into our own hands and produce a bunch of Ishmael’s ”“ or we can learn to wait on God ”“ and become a father of faith and a partner in the advancement of God’s kingdom.
Speaking personally, it seems that we learn this best through experiencing our own Ishmael’s. And maybe that is to be an outcome of this conversation itself. We are stirred towards an inward silence.

Diane