Building bridges to darkness???????

sermonindex Jan 19, 2014

2 Cor.6:14-16
Do not be bound together with unbelievers, for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols?

These verses came to mind as I reflected upon Dr.Ravi Zacharias speaking to Mormons at Brigham Young University and in the Mormon Tabernachle in the last few days. I believe this was his second visit. The first visit he spoke in 2004 having recieved a standing ovation from the Mormons. But is something wrong with this picture???????

If this brother was preaching the cross of Christ to those steeped in the demonic darkness of Mormonism then one of two things would have happened. A riot or a revival of Christ centered repentence. But I hardly doubt a standing ovation would be in order. One does not see Paul recieving standing ovations. With Paul preaching the cross of Christ it was a riot or a revival. Sometimes followed by jail.

There is no doubt that Dr. Ravi Zacharias is s brilliant apologist holding I believe 3Â doctorates. He has written numerous books and spoken in many venues defending the gospel of Christ. Yet Dr. Zacharias folows Richard Lamb and Albert Moehler from the SBC and George Wood from the Assemblies of God in reaching out to Mormons. Or accepting Mormon invites to go Utah and meet with them. (Hmm wonder if they would invite Paul Washer to preach?)

Tbese meetings of evangelicals and Mormons seem to suggest that there is common ground for agreement and that doctrinal differences are minimized. Then one cries out where is this sword Jesus promised to bring. The uniqueness of salvation in Jesus alone is lost. The cross has no offense.

For two thousand tears of church history followers of Jesus Christ have maintained that He is the Son of God and He is the only way to the Father.

Yet this distinctiveness is being lost as we see evangelicals ans Mormons dialoging and singing cumbyah. Then one wonders why believers suffer for Christ in N. Korea and Eritrea. One wonders why over 100,000 believers a year are martyred for faith in the belief that Christ is the only way of salvation.

One does not read of Paul opening up dialogs with the Jewish extremist of his day. Or one does not read of Paul preaching in the temple if Artemis. But one does read of Paul preaching Christ crucified and faith Him alone to save. And for that he suffered and was martyred.

I do believe we should reach out with the gospel to those in demonic cults. And that should be done with the love of Christ. But to preach in their venues??? Well. That may be acceptable...provided.....that one is preaching the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and He alone is the way to be saved. If course such a person nay not be alive the next day. But you know the gospel has been preached. But to build bridges if unity with a cult.......I think the above verses speak for them selves.

Posted by Blaine Scogin

K

KingJimmy Jan 19, 2014

"Riot or revival" is a false dichotomy. It might have been preached by Leonard Ravenhill, but it's not exactly Scriptural.

A real look at the book of Acts will show that while such often happened, there were plenty of instances of Paul and the apostles being given the opportunity to speak to non-believers who wanted them to come back and speak again.

Though I have almost zero interaction with Mormons these days, I'm personally encouraged by Dr. Ravi Zacharias in his witness to them. His attitude shows that you can gently witness to people in a loving manner and that God will open some wonderful opportunities up for you to do so. My guess would be he is seeing some fruit from this.

Standing on their platform in one of their churches is not a compromise. It is an opportunity. I think Blaine, you would prefer if Dr. Ravi Zacharias were standing out in the parking lot and preaching to them from the back of a pick-up truck with a loud horn. You would applaud him then. But being a platformed speaker... well, that's compromise, right?

Hmmm..

*edited*

M

MrBillPro Jan 19, 2014

2 Cor.6:14-16
Do not be bound together with unbelievers, for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Lets not confuse the word "bound". Speaking with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or even a non believer is not being bound to that person. If the world spent more time searching themselves and not others, they might see they are not good enough to judge a rock, as we are all nothing but filth rags.

S

Sidewalk Jan 19, 2014

As you look back on the circumstances that brought you to Christ, you will probably notice that while you read and believed The Word, you were also greatly influenced by people you either met or learned from.

For me, there were people who "had something" that I came to desire also. Sometimes it was intangible, but the one thing I probably wanted most was that easy love for God and other people. Seeing and hearing people with that was mesmerizing to me, and I knew I wanted it.

Perhaps these meetings will result in some clapping, some grinding their teeth, but some in there responding to the Holy Spirit. If it is just one it is worth it. One more rescued from darkness into the light and life of Christ.

Talking is usually better than shooting...

A

ArthurRosh Jan 19, 2014

Brother Blaine thank you for bringing up this issue as it is something very close to my heart (my family is Eastern Orthdoox, a form of religion that when understood is more frightening than the darkest cults out there) I live and interact with this 24/7, 365, it is a very sensitive issue with much to be debated on proper ways to reach people within false religions something I am learning from the Lord everyday, this is a very good topic for discussion and I hope to add some more fuller comments later but for now I want to say that God's ways and the way He works are not something we am figure out and we must never put Him in any boxes. He works in many ways and it is all for His glory. Notice these two verses that give us some more information on how the apostles approached things:

For you have brought these men here who are neither sacrilegious nor blasphemers of our goddess.
Acts 19:37

Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks
1 Corinthians 10:32

sermonindex Jan 19, 2014

Brethren let me say up front I am not advocating a Westboro Baptist approach to evangelizing the Mormons, Moslems or any other cult. But the message of Jesus Christ couched in His death on the cross for sinners is not designed to make one feel good. But to provoke one to a response. A response of repentence toward God and faith in Christ or a response of rejection of Christ. There is no middle ground. And granted this is done in love.

The gospel demands a response from the heart of a sinner. Not a standing ovation to the messenger. There is no middle ground with the cross.

My concern is leading big name evangelicals are making themselves known to the Mormons and leaving with this feel good all is well. Meanwhile leaving Mormon souls on the road to hell. The intent of these meetings seems more to bring about the apostate church of the end times then Mormon souls to Christ.

The idea of dialog with a cult is foolish. Building bridges with demonic cults by sitting around and looking for common ground leads nowhere but to hell. The best love one can give a cult member is to bring them to Jesus Christ and that done in a spirit of love and gentleness.

Jesus did not travel a middle ground when he said in John 14:6 I am the wayÂ and the truth and the life. He made it pretty direct when He said no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Peter was not seeker sensitive when be declared in Acts 4:12 when he said there is salvation in no one else. For he declared there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved. That is the name of Jesus Christ.

Some, perhaps even in this forum, will say this is narrow minded bigotry. But Jesus did say that the narrow way, I believe that is the cross will lead to life. And only a few are going to enter through that narrow door. But it is the door of life. But the easy broad road of dialog and compromise will lead to an eternal destruction of hell.

If we truly love those in the cults and I pray we do. The most loving message we can give them is the message of the cross of Christ. The only way to salvation.

Posted by Blaine Scogin

A

ArthurRosh Jan 19, 2014

I am glad we are discussing this issue and I share your concerns. I want to add to your comments that the response the gospel demands from sinners may not be an instant response in every case and can sometimes take time to develop. Secondly it is not always the the offensive aspect of the cross that draws sinners, it can be the glories of Christ that draws sinners to repentance.

I saw a portion of Ravi's message at the Mormon Tabernacle and had many of the same questions that you are dealing with going through my mind as well. It would be good to get Ravi's own perspective on the issue as I believe he is a man of prayer who is close to the heart of the Lord Jesus and is careful to obey the Master's voice in his life and ministry.

K

KingJimmy Jan 20, 2014

The word "cult" is a mostly useless prejorative that is devoid of any real meaning. Even if the Mormons are one, they are still a people who need to be reached. Brother Ravi had thousands of them as a captive and attentive audience. Getting to present to them the Gospel in such a forum is nothing short of amazing. It is an opportunity no preacher in his right mind should turn down.

B

brothagary Jan 20, 2014

wow i just watched ravis sermon ,,,what a powerfull message strong exortations to get born again and the thrust of the message was to read the bible and be converted

i think it is wise to watch the full sermon before casting judgment

this man is a great evanglist and knows how to use the sword acording to the traditions and cultures he attacks

this message was nothing about ecumecial bonds but a christ centerd gosple message to convert the lost

verry verry dispointing to here some brothers here judge this man ,when he probably has done a hundred fold to bring the message of christ and the new birth and the athority of the bible to hundreds and hundereds of thousands , then what you or i have done

we sit around have a prayer meeting once a week and fellowship twice a week and sit on our behinds and babale here on sermon index about our pet doctrine and point the finger and eveyone that doest line up with our perceved spiritual life

wile ravi spends 200 pluss days every year preaching the gosple and exorting all differnt faiths

how dicusting are we to even utter a word against another of gods servents ,,utterly shamefull

ill just cover my mouth when it comes to men like ravi and ask god to forgive me for not being as zelious for the gospel as him ..

sermonindex Jan 20, 2014

I am trying to access Ravi's messages spoken at BYU and Mormon Tabernachle. Evidently those messages have not been posted on his web site. If someone bas the link to the messages spoken on Jan. 17 at BYU and Jan. 18 at Mormon Tabernachle please post on this thread.

But my questions is was the gospel clearly proclaimed? Was man shown to be a sinner and his need for a Savior clearly demonstrated? Was the good news of God's redeeming grace and love set forth in the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Was there a clarion call to respond to God's gracious offer of salvation as set forth in His Son Jesus Christ? Was there a call to respond to the offer of salvation by faith in the stoning work of Christ?

If any of the questions cannot be answered in the affirmative then Mormons did not hear the gospel. As such there souls are in peril.

Jesus did not come to speak in intellectual or theological platitudes and play patyicaje with souls bound for eternal dextruction. He came to call sinners to repentence and into a saving relationship with Him.

The issue here is souls. Souls bound for a Christless eternity. Mormon souls are locked in demonic darkness and need to hear the liberating good news of the gospel of Jezus Christ.

Blaine Scogin

K

KingJimmy Jan 20, 2014

I think Ravi has distinguished himself over the years and has a lot of credibility as being pretty rock solid when it comes to things of the faith, and preaching the gospel. Far be it from any of us to cynically question his motivies and whether or not he preached the gospel on the internet. He's something of an elder-statesman of the faith in the evangelical community. I would say he beyond reproach in this. We would do well to just watch and learn from his example.

R

rainydaygirl Jan 20, 2014

I would say he beyond reproach in this. We would do well to just watch and learn from his example.

----

i think this is a dangerous attitude to have about any man. we are all prone to sin. not saying that he is or that he has done anything at all wrong but i also don't think it is wrong for bear to ask to hear the teaching or ask about the way things went. we are told to test the spirit, and even Paul had to correct Peter. again not saying that Ravi teaching to the Mormons was wrong but asking about it isn't wrong either.

rdg

U

used4him Jan 20, 2014

Bearmaster,

I have not seen the sermon either, but I am with you as far as questioning the response. It's hard to believe that Mormons would applaud something preached that completely condradicts their beliefs. We just don't see that in the bible. Whenever I have witnessed to someone in a false religion, I usually get a strong response. Either they want to argue, or walk away. I would like to hear of some fruit from his meeting with them, in other words, saved souls.

K

KingJimmy Jan 20, 2014

i think this is a dangerous attitude to have about any man. we are all prone to sin. not saying that he is or that he has done anything at all wrong but i also don't think it is wrong for bear to ask to hear the teaching or ask about the way things went. we are told to test the spirit, and even Paul had to correct Peter. again not saying that Ravi teaching to the Mormons was wrong but asking about it isn't wrong either.

I don't mind the questioning of what he preached either.

However, there is an arrogant, condescending, cynical attitude being taken on here in regard to a man who has done nothing but demonstrate that he is our brother in the Lord, and a faithful servant of Jesus Christ. We should give him the benefit of the doubt instead of playing this "I have a sneaky suspicion" game that some are fond of playing.

If it ever becomes evident that he is something other than such, then fine, have a field day with him. But until then, I think somebody who has a pretty long track record of faithfully preaching and defending the gospel under numerous settings should not be reproached, and treated as guilty until proven innocent.

K

KingJimmy Jan 20, 2014

I have not seen the sermon either, but I am with you as far as questioning the response. It's hard to believe that Mormons would applaud something preached that completely condradicts their beliefs.

I once preached in a church, where a friend of a friend came to listen to me preach. The guy was was a Mormon missionary, who had just completed his 2 year mission, fresh out of the field. After the service I had the opportunity to meet him. He thanked me for the "deep and thought provoking message" I preached, and said he had enjoyed it. Yet my message was nothing of the sort that he should've found much in the way of anything to agree with.

In social settings, Mormons tend to be extremely friendly people. It does not surprise me that they stood up and applauded. That's what these well mannered people tend to do (they pride themselves on being very polite and neighborly). For all the times I've confronted Mormon missionaries on my door step, or while I was out on the streets, or preaching on the square of a university, I've always found that no matter how much you ruffle their feathers, they keep playing nice. They typically mindlessly agree to just about anything you say, and just try to play nice.

sermonindex Jan 20, 2014

Brethren this past summer I travelled to Salt Lake City to meet s friend for a prayer assignnent. During my 9 days in SLC, my friend and I went to the Mormon Temple, the training school for Mormon missionaries, and other Mormon high places where we prayed for God to break the powers of darkness and the gospel to come in to the Salt Lake Valley.

While in Salt Lake, Provo, and Logan I saw young Mormon adults trapped in demonic darkness not knowing their sins had been paid for at the cross by Jesus Christ. All they needed to do was repent of their sins and turn to God. All they needed to do was to believe in Jesus. Yet the Mormons are trapped in a works righteousness system. They need to be set free from this yoke of slavery by the cross of Jesus Christ.

God opened up an opportunity for my friend and I to visit with Sandra Tanner. Sandra and her husband who is now with the Lord , came out of Mormonism in the 1960's. They were the first to expose the evils of Mormonism.

In visiting with Sndra she shared something that the LDS church does not want the public to know. A fair amount of their young people, particularly those who go on missions, have nervous breakdowns often leading to suicidal thoughts or suicide itself. This is brought on by the pressure to perform the legalistic duties Mormonism requires. These young adults are often under mental health treatment. Some do commit suicide.

Thus the great need for the gospel in all if its power to set one free from Mormonism to be preached.

Tragically this is not being done by those evangelicals who are visting Utah st Mormon invites. Richard Land, Albert Miehler, George Wood, and apparently Ravi Zacharias are more interested in common ground with the Mormons then in seeing them set free with the truth of Jesus Christ.

This is the context of why I opened up this thread. Some of you think I commitÂ the unpardonable sin by calling into question whether Ravi Zacharias peached the cross of Jesus Christ to set Mormons free.

My friend, who was converted out if Mormonism, has been crying out to God to send laborers out to Utah to pray and preach the gospel to the Mormons. Mormons need to hear the truth of Jesus Christ who can set them free. Mormons do not need to hear apologetics and tbeology. They need to hear the truth of Jesus Christ to free them from their legalistic bondage.

Lord willing, I intend to return to Utah to pray and share Jezus this summer. Would anyone lone to join me. There us s great mission field out there.

Blaine Scogin

G

ginnyrose Jan 20, 2014

Here is a link to those talks Ravi gave to the Mormans:

http://www.rzim.org/rzim-news/ravi-zacharias-at-byu-and-the-mormon-tabernacle/

I listened to the first one and it was good! If those people still believe that when one dies a man will have ???virgins...they sure did not get it from him! He preached a message we would all benefit from. The Q&A was good as well.

sermonindex Jan 20, 2014

Ginny thanks for listing kinks.

sermonindex Jan 20, 2014

I listened to Ravi's message to the BYU students. Excellent apologetic message entitled on What it Means to Be Human. It was non offensive. Good for academic discussion. The approach may be good in discussions with with non theists such as athiests or evolutionists.

What I felt lacking was the uniqueness of Jesus Christ. That uniqueness of His person and work that sets Him apart from the Jesus the Mormons believe in. Consequently there was no mention of sin or the power of the cross to cleans and deliver from sin.

Thus if I were a Mirmon sitting in that meeting I would come away feeling like Mormons and Evangelicals have very little separating them. There was no radical gospel proclamation to call Mormons to repentence.

My thoughts.

Blaine Scogin

sermonindex Jan 20, 2014

I remember when Josh MacDowell came to LSU in the 1970's. Josh took an apologetic approach that wax centered more in the uniqueness of Jesus Christ. From history, theology, philosophy, and other disciplines Josh would lecture and debate the radicals of his day. The debates grew heated at times. But the intent of Josh was to set forth the truth of Jezus Christ. That Jesus Christ was who He claimed to be. Many were challenged to consider the claims of Jezus Christ. Many came to faith in Jesus Christ. The books that Josh wrote, Evidence that Demands a Verdict and More than a Carpenter stand as classics in setting forth the apologetic claims that Jesus Christ us indeed the Son of God.

It seems tbis is what BYU needs to be challenged with.

Blaine