Are we blinded also? | SermonIndex

sermonindex Feb 10, 2014

John 5:39-40
For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I myself am working".

Jesus had done an incredible miracle by healing a man who had been ill for 38 years. The Jews, particularly the religious leadership probably saw him there at the pool of Bethsdsy day after day. But paid no attention to him. Then in a stunning miracle Jesus heals this man. The response of the Jews was that the man was reproved for carrying his pallet on the Sabbath.

Jesus responds by telling the Jews that My Father is working until now and I Myself am working. Yet the Jews blinded by religion failed to see the redemptive history of God working in Israel at that time. Because Jesus did not fit the Jews paradyne of a messiah. They missed the working of God in their midst.

And so it is now. We are witnessing the greatest harvest of souls in redemptive history which is really His Story. God is moving in incredible ways, particularly among the Moslems, bringing countless thousands to Himself via dreams and visions. These movements of God have been documented by Jerry Trousdake in Miraculous Moments. And also Tom Doyle in Dreams and Visions. Yet our own religion of blindness says this is false.

Because this movement of God foes not fit our theological bias. This movement of God does not conform to our religious presuppositions. Certainly Jesus does not appear to Moslems in dreams and visions and bid them to follow Him. After all that stuff stopped after 100 AD. And Imoms certainly cannot have an experience with Christ and still remain in the context of Islam. Never mind they are secretly reading and studying the NewTestament. Never mind they are praying their mosque will cone to know Christ as they have. God simply does not work this way among the Moslems. Evidently someone forgot to tell the Holy Spirit that.

And the idea that God is working among Coptic and Catholics in the Middle East . Those who will give their lives for Christ. Uh uh. No way. My paradyne does not allow for that. There is no remnant among the Coptic or Catholics. Would someone like to tell the Holy Spirit that?

Saints if we are not careful we will be as those in Jesus day. Blinded by our religious prejudices and fail to see the ongoing redemptive work of God in our day. Paul writes in 2 Cor. that now is the day of salvation. Rev.7 describes a multitude that no one could count from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues. They stand around the throne crying "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb.".

Indeed God is calling forth s remnant. There is an ongoing movement of God's redemptive activity. But how God is calling forth that redemptive activity is not going to fit our western mindset. For God does tell us that His ways and thoughts are not our ways and thoughts. But if we in humility will ask Him to teach us and show us His ways and thoughts. God will allow us the great honour of partnering with Him to see the greatest harvest of souls in redemptive history. For indeed the harvest us plentiful. Nay God grant we be His coworkers in this great hour of His Story.

Posted by Blaine Scogin

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dolfan Feb 10, 2014

It is a terrifying thing to presume upon God. I think of the warnings against it in Ecclesiastes 5. Yet, we have to carefully weigh stories about forms of conversion that do not conform with the Scriptural witness of proclamation as the means of bringing men to repentance and faith in Christ. We don't have sinners being shown the gospel by vision without a human proclamation accompanying it in some fashion in Scripture. Even Paul was an eyewitness to gospel proclamation before his conversion at Jesus's appearance. And, we must not approve Chrislam, either, in spite of its appeal to our emotions and strong desire to see men saved. At the same time, we can see in the New Testament that men believed and remained within the Jewish religious system. Judaism rejected Christ long before Islam existed, and they both continue as anti-Christ belief systems. So, I am with you bearmaster, and also with caution as we wait for the fruit that abounds to the glory of God in Christ in all such claims and while we remain devoted to the proclamation of the gospel.

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rainydaygirl Feb 10, 2014

bear you said, "And Imoms certainly cannot have an experience with Christ and still remain in the context of Islam. Never mind they are secretly reading and studying the NewTestament. Never mind they are praying their mosque will cone to know Christ as they have. God simply does not work this way among the Moslems."
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just read your post and i wonder if you could show me in scripture where Paul after seeing visions of Jesus went back to being a pharisee? i am not trying to be flippant but you mentioned those who are haveing visions then going back to their previous life and keeping their faith a secret? how dose this fit with the Biblical account of conversion. if i belonged to the mormon church and had a vision of Jesus would it be fine for me to continue on practicing and believing in the traditions of the mormon religion? would it be fine for me to keep my new found faith a secret from those around? It says you will know them by their fruit?

rdg

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MrBillPro Feb 10, 2014

Whatever the reasons why people reject Jesus Christ or keep their new founded faith in Christ a secret, their rejection has disastrous eternal consequences. "There is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” than the name of Jesus (Acts 4:12), and those who reject Him, for whatever reason, face an eternity in the "outer darkness” of hell where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 25:30). If someone comes to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and hides it, my guess is they must not have really accepted Jesus in the first place. Deception abounds fully today and since the beginning of time, and religion has been the biggest leader of deception. The word makes it perfectly clear, for those who choose to truly believe and trust in Jesus. "There is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” than the name of Jesus (Acts 4:12). "Any Questions?

Salvation can only be found be found in the name of Jesus Christ. You CANNOT find salvation in the name of Allah. You CANNOT find salvation in the name of the Pope. You CANNOT find salvation in the name of Buddha. You CANNOT find salvation in the name of a religion or a denomination. You CANNOT find salvation in the name of an evangelist. You can only find salvation in the person of Jesus Christ. This is God’s plan.

sermonindex Feb 10, 2014

Tom Doyle writes of Muslim women who have an experience of encountering Jesus tthrough a dream or a vision. Because of this experience the woman will decide to follow Jesus. The woman is in Saudi Arabia. She is married and one of four wives to a Muslim nan. There are no evangelical churches in Saudie Arabia. For this woman to openly declare her faith in Christ is certain death. She may have a New Testament but must read it in secret. This dear sister will stay in the context if her religion but prays for her husband, his other wives, and her children to come to knuw Christ.

Is anybody going to say that this dear woman is not obeying God? Yet our western paradyne would say she is to come out of Islam. And to what I might ask? To an early death? Maybe if that isÂ what God would call her to. But I would suggest that God in His wisdom would be reaching more Muslem souls through the prayers of that sister who stays in her Muslem marriage then going to an early martyrs death.

Again saints we cannot impose our western standards on what God is doing in he Middle East. For His ways we certainly not our ways.

Blaine

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rainydaygirl Feb 10, 2014

She is married and one of four wives to a Muslim nan. There are no evangelical churches in Saudie Arabia. For this woman to openly declare her faith in Christ is certain death. She may have a New Testament but must read it in secret. This dear sister will stay in the context if her religion but prays for her husband, his other wives, and her children to come to knuw Christ.
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if she is still practicing the muslim faith with her husband then she does not know Jesus.
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Is anybody going to say that this dear woman is not obeying God? Yet our western paradyne would say she is to come out of Islam. And to what I might ask? To an early death? Maybe if that is what God would call her to. But I would suggest that God in His wisdom would be reaching more Muslem souls through the prayers of that sister who stays in her Muslem marriage then going to an early martyrs death.

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does the New testement support this? if so please show me where as i am open to recieve correction.

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Again saints we cannot impose our western standards on what God is doing in he Middle East. For His ways we certainly not our ways.

Blaine

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again blaine where is this in the Bible? this is not anyone here imposing a western standard on anyone its Gods standard in His Word.Be careful you do not side step the Word and what it clearly says to us.

now i have a question for you to consider: there is a woman who lives here in this country, she is mormon and married with seven children. she has come to know Jesus as her true Savior but if she refuses to obey her husband and continue on teaching her children the false teaching of the mormon religion her husband will divorce her. they live in Utah and he is a lawyer with many connections, she knows if she tells anyone that she has found Jesus and is born again that her husband will divorce her and take her children from her(he has the power to do so) so she is faced with a choice? she can count the cost of following Christ, place her life in Jesus hands and confess Him as Lord to all, refusing to continue on in the practice of the false religion of Mormonism? or she can lie to those around her, pretend that she is still mormon, and pray in secret that her husband will be saved and hope her children will be as well all the while teaching them the mormon faith? what should she do?

following your reasoning she should lie and pretend and yet the Word tells us to share the good news with all not hide it???

rdg

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rainydaygirl Feb 10, 2014

Blaine something else to think about.

you wrote:Is anybody going to say that this dear woman is not obeying God? Yet our western paradyne would say she is to come out of Islam. And to what I might ask? To an early death?

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did the disciples face persecution and death by confessing Jesus? didn't they face the same question that this woman you speak faces? if she is truly following Jesus there can only be one clear answer "repent of your sins and follow ME."

Now i ask you to consider is practicing the false teaching of Islam sin or not? if she continues to follow and practice a false religion for the world to see then how can she be a light to the lost? is she not in sin for doing so?

rdg

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MrBillPro Feb 10, 2014

Lets discuss whats the meaning of this scripture.

Matthew 10:33....But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

I don't seem to get reading that scripture that it's ok to hide my new found faith in Jesus Christ at any cost, but I am open for rebuttals.

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rainydaygirl Feb 10, 2014

Thank you MrBillPro for the Scripture Verse Matthew 10:33 and i just wanted to add that I agree with the Word of God and what it says here. i have no rebuttals(smile)

rdg

sermonindex Feb 10, 2014

I ask gently is this not what you are doing? Are you not applying your western mindset to what believers should or should not be doing in the Middle East?

Jesus also taught that we are to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Sometimes descretion is the better part of valor if it means for the gospel to have a greater impact.

Blaine

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MrBillPro Feb 10, 2014

bearmaster...I ask gently is this not what you are doing? Are you not applying your western mindset to what believers should or should not be doing in the Middle East?

Mr. Bear, I thought I was applying the word of God, but please correct me if I am wrong.

sermonindex Feb 10, 2014

You have to be led by the Spirit. There are high ranking Chinese officials that are Christians that do not deny the Lord, but have to hide their faith. We can't be legalistic in equating the two. Let the Lord be the judge and lead His people.

We only know how to apply the Word of God as the Spirit leads us.

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MrBillPro Feb 10, 2014

just-in...We only know how to apply the Word of God as the Spirit leads us.

I am a little confused here, please help! Would it be possible that the spirit might lead us in opposition to the word of God?

sermonindex Feb 10, 2014

No, the Holy Spirit will not lead us into opposition to Himself. A kingdom divided cannot stand. If someone is not revealing their faith to every one they know and meet, I do not judge that they are denying Christ. Do you?

M

MrBillPro Feb 10, 2014

Well we started off on this thread, in reference to Jews and Muslims in other countries, so now as usual we have moved to comparing apples to oranges.

M

MrBillPro Feb 10, 2014

The Bible provides a reliable yardstick by which to measure our claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit through circumstances or feelings. If, for example, you think that the Spirit is leading you to do something the Bible prohibits, you can be sure that your spiritual lenses have become foggy. Throughout history, people have committed blatant sins under the claim God’s guidance. But since the Spirit inspired the writers of Scripture, that same Spirit can be guaranteed not to lead us to contradict the plain direction of Scripture.

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MrBillPro Feb 10, 2014

just-in... If someone is not revealing their faith to every one they know and meet, I do not judge that they are denying Christ. Do you?
How would you even be prepared to judge them if they are not reveling their faith? How would you even know what their faith is? Would they not have to speak out loud to reveal their faith? maybe I am just confused.

sermonindex Feb 10, 2014

Because men have the Bible, they think they're interpretations are always Holy Spirit led and that they are adequate to judge, everything.

Just for the record:
I do not think my miniscule understanding of the whole counsel of God gives me omniscient insight into the actions or non-actions of men.

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rainydaygirl Feb 10, 2014

by bearmaster on 2014/2/10 12:19:20

I ask gently is this not what you are doing? Are you not applying your western mindset to what believers should or should not be doing in the Middle East?

Jesus also taught that we are to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Sometimes descretion is the better part of valor if it means for the gospel to have a greater impact.

Blaine
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blaine could you go back to my second post to you and respond to my question? what would your advice to my friend be who is mormon? what should she do?

rdg

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rainydaygirl Feb 10, 2014

Just in

just asking not trying to be difficult but how can anyone interpret any different then what it says??

Matthew 10:33....But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

So if someone keeps their faith a secret what does this verse say about that? help me understand this based off what Blaine wrote in his opening posts?

thanks rdg