deltadom
Apr 6, 2005
What is the difference between christian and non christian music and why cant christian cd prices come down
What is the difference between christian and non christian music and why cant christian cd prices come down
What is the difference between christian and non christian music Depends on the artist... sometimes there really isnt any difference.why cant christian cd prices come down Greed.Krispy
I get this one all the time. What makes music christian is it the music or the musicain? I have to lean more toward the music--POD--no one stone me for mentioning them--- gave the now famous line "we;re not a Christian band, we're christians who play in a band"...Now we have all kinds of junk lyrics by those who are on "christian labels"--it is a big fat mess. You really need discrnemt when buying a cd anymore. When people like Dolly parton (no offense to any fans) can spit out a "gospel album' and then do a song for the Gay and Lesbian record project. . there are some that love Jesus and make music that pleases him. I think it all boils down to the heart and the words. Do theyn please God? Are the words of 'worship' so vauge that they could be singing about a piece of steak, frisbee or Jesus? Just a thought. Don't really want to rant. AS for the price of Cds? All i can say is that they charge me what they charge me and i have to make somethig to stay in buisness. If it is greed it's not on the grass roots level it be the big wigs with thier pockets lined with "christian" dollars.
POD--no one stone me for mentioning them--- gave the now famous line "we;re not a Christian band, we're christians who play in a bandActually... Stryper said that a long time before POD ever stepped on the stage. (I kinda like Stryper, I grew up listening to hair bands. They're back ya know...)AS for the price of Cds? All i can say is that they charge me what they charge me and i have to make somethig to stay in buisness. If it is greed it's not on the grass roots level it be the big wigs with thier pockets lined with "christian" dollars. I wanna say that my comment on greed should have been clarified. I dont blame the mom & pop Christian bookstore... they're trying to make a living. And I understand the concept of Walmart being able to sell items for less because of the amount they buy at one time. The greed come from the executives at the very top of the food chain in CCM. And those companies are secular companies, and they have their hands in CCM for one thing... and one thing only... MONEY. If there was no money, they would drop it like a hot potato.I have always had a problem with the merger of CCM with the secular record companies... it's a yoking together that is grossly unscriptural. And since that is a fact, is it any wonder CCM is in the mess it's in?On a more positive note, some of the people in CCM that I am impressed with (because of their stand for God) is as follows (and this is not an exhaustive list):Steve Camp (get ready to feel convicted!)Darryl MansfieldThird DayRandy TravisGRITSKutlessStryper (God has really worked in their lives since they broke up 10 years ago... and are now back together)KJ-52Randy StonehillMercyMeGlenn KaiserGreg X. Volz (former lead singer of Petra... I've met him on several occasions, and my band opened for him once about 2 years ago. He's as real as it gets for God. He put Petra on the map with More Power To Ya back in 1982)Krispy
No offense taken Krispy. I know it was not a shot at the locals. I guess im a little cyncial because i see thje other side now. There are MANY that are out there that sprinkle a little religion or throw out the name Jesus just to get signed because Christians are so despreate for something "cool". Look at the whole Creed thing--they where in CCM Mag all the time--people really didn;t care if thier heart was right, they where on the radio and people thought they where cool.. . so if they listened to it and "sactified" them--they where cool by association. I too have a major problem with the mergers--EMI, Columbia and RCA have all bought up Christian labels--soooo, now they have a hand in the content of the record and where does that leave us. . . . . :-o
Look at the whole Creed thing--U2 is a shining example of what you're talking about. They mentioned Jesus in their song "Sunday Bloody Sunday", and boom... they got labeled a Christian band. A label, I might add, that they said they did not want.True, at one point they expressed a belief in God, but at best they were Easter/Christmas Catholics... but they have never shown any fruit of being believers in the God of the Bible.I respect their stand on social issues (even tho I dont agree with them a lot of the time... too liberal), and I think Bono wants to do good in this world, but lets not fool ourselves here... they have shown no evidence of being born again, Spirit filled believers.We have to be very careful and very discerning about who we listen to... even someone who is in CCM. Why? Well, I can listen to a song and say "wow... that really touched me", and the artist may not even be saved.Example: Without Him, by Mylon LeFevre. Mylon wrote that as a teenager, and it's a powerful song, and has found it's way into some hymn books. However, Mylon confesses now that he wasnt saved when he wrote that. He spent years in secular music, and just as many years addicted to cocaine and herion. The Lord finally saved him in 1980.Now, the Lord has used that song. No doubt. But for me, as a parent, I know that my kids will immitate people they look up to. I did... when I was going up I loved Lynyrd Skynyrd. I was a big ol' redneck, hard drinkin', foul mouthed guy. Life immitates art. So as a parent... I dont just accept that an artist is a Christian because they have a hit on Christian radio. I take the time to visit their website, listen to the music, read the interviews... and without judging their salvation, I do make a judgement based on discernment whether my kid is going to listen to thier music.It's something we all need to be better at.Krispy
Although I agree with the concern and need for discernment with CCM, I wanted to plead a case for those CCM artists and even the retailers.As a commercial artist and occasional musician I find the churchs' fuss over the sactification of the arts somewhat flustering. Like most believers, artistic believers want to walk in the talents given to them. Yet because artists are dealing in symbols and communication they are viewed differently then engineers, contractors, and bankers. I'll be honest...I also feel for the Christian bookstore owner. In order to make Christian products available,they have to run a business for profit (the redundancy needs to be stated...)while many people show outright disdain for their American commerce. Meanwhile the big retailers are cherry picking the juiciest "inspirational" products...often selling them as loss leaders. To add injury to insult, many churches have opened retail "ministries" in their lobbys' carrying only the high volume merchandise. If you attend a CBA convention hoping to find something like the "John the Baptist" conference you'll end up tearing your camel skin tunic and overturning the moneychangers kiosks and showcases. It's a glossy trade show with many sincere individuals making a living in the shadows of large souless companies. The facts of modern life...affordable products flow to into our eager hands through the commerical river of manufacturing and distribution. Even King James bibles cost money to manufacture and be merchandised under the attractive POP displays the choosy faithful have come to expect. If we didn't demand it...these companies wouldn't invest their money making it.Commercialism is an easy target for Christians. Well it may not be the third world but its' still a jungle that requires the help of local translators and guides for missionaries to navigate through. For instance, Richard Wurmbrand's organization "Voice of the Martyrs" chose to brand the dear stories of suffering saints as "DC Talk Jesus freaks". Why? To increase the odds that the stories will find their way into more people's hearts. These aren't deep thoughts...just some more kindling for the discussion.MC
Anyone interested in reading the last time we dealt with this, check out...Christian rock music....?Personally, this thread impacted my life, in a profound way, and like the apostle Paul, heard the words of Jesus asking why I was "kicking against the goads". I challenge anyone to follow it in it's entirity, listening to the recomended sermons within, and come out the same as you went in.:-)
Compton... I appreciate your thoughts on this. You make some good points in it.Let me share with you something about Christian retailers... clarify that to mean Christian chain stores.I went to a local Christian chain store (with a Family emphasis... if you know who i mean) recently to price Bibles. My two oldest (ages 10 and 9) are old enough now for a study Bible, and my wife and I are in need of new Bibles since ours are falling apart.I was sticker shocked to say the least. The Bibles I wanted to get the boys were $35. The Bibles I wanted to get my wife and I were almost $50. So I went to Christian Book Distributors website... and bought the exact same Bibles I was looking at... but instead of $35, they were $16. Instead of $50, they were $29.99. I saved $78, and paid $9 for shipping.Why the huge mark up?Krispy
I just read this article concerning this subject. The article mentions many top artist on the Christian chart and has some very troubling facts about them and actual quotes they have made. I would challange everyone to read it, it may change your mind on who you and/or your children listen to.Here is the link.http://www.discernment-ministries.org/NLMarchApril_2005.htmGod bless,Mike
. Instead of $50, they were $29.99. I saved $78, and paid $9 for shipping.Why the huge mark up?KrispyI'm not sure about Family, but i do know that most fo your dist. centers like App. and Spring Arbor price them to us at a price that lets them turn a profit, most of the time the d.c.s get books at 55%-60% off and then they ship them to us and we only get a 40% discount. I guess that CBD cuts out the middle man. I do applud you for at least going to CBD an not Wal-Mart--Compton mention CBA shows and i agree it is flashy and there are plenty of people pandering "the next "life changing message"--but there are also those that have a heart for ministry and they are usually back in some corner overlooked. That's all i meant by discerning what we listen too, thier heart will eventually come out thier mouth (Jesus said it.)I guess it is all a matter of marketing. Food for thought.
I'm not sure about Family, but i do know that most fo your dist. centers like App. and Spring Arbor price them to us at a price that lets them turn a profit, most of the time the d.c.s get books at 55%-60% off and then they ship them to us and we only get a 40% discount. I guess that CBD cuts out the middle man. Well, lets be honest, if they didn't make some profit they wouldn't be able to do what they do. I don't think anyone is asking them to do it for nothing. I just don't understand the HUGE mark up. I do applud you for at least going to CBD an not Wal-Mart--Actually, I checked Walmarts website, but I couldnt get what I wanted there... but if they did, and the price was better, I would have done it. We're a one income homeschool family w/ four boys... I do what I gotta do.Compton mention CBA shows and i agree it is flashy and there are plenty of people pandering "the next "life changing message"--but there are also those that have a heart for ministry and they are usually back in some corner overlooked. That's all i meant by discerning what we listen too, thier heart will eventually come out thier mouth (Jesus said it.)I guess it is all a matter of marketing. Food for thought. And that echoes what I was saying... you cant throw the baby out with the bath water. We need to pray for wisdom in this age, probably more so than in any other.Krispy
Inotof, I am afraid I wasn't clear enough in my last post...Compton mentioned CBA shows and i agree it is flashy and there are plenty of people pandering "the next "life changing message"--but there are also those that have a heart for ministry and they are usually back in some corner overlooked.I guess I was being too subtle...I wasn't condemning the CBA. Far from it! I was trying to defend it and give it the same liberty to conduct business that other industries enjoy. I was observing that commercialism is a vital language in our world. When I said...If you attend a CBA convention hoping to find something like the "John the Baptist" conference you'll end up tearing your camel skin tunic and overturning the moneychangers kiosks and showcases. I was making room for the realities of commerce. With tongue in cheek I was gently asking the prophets to not look down on profits.When I said,It's a glossy trade show with many sincere individuals making a living in the shadows of large souless companies. I was pointing out that the CBA is full of ministry minded individuals who work within the business realities of Christian retail. (Just like in every industry...)And finally when I said,Commercialism is an easy target for Christians. Well it may not be the third world but its' still a jungle that requires the help of local translators and guides for missionaries to navigate through. For instance, Richard Wurmbrand's organization "Voice of the Martyrs" chose to brand the dear stories of suffering saints as "DC Talk Jesus freaks". Why? To increase the odds that the stories will find their way into more people's hearts.I was giving an instance of where commercial packagaging and branding doesn't make the Christian message less authentic...in fact it makes for succesful communication...and outreach.I apologize if my expressions were a little confusing. To be clear...I'm glad there is a CBA!Regarding greed, markup and Wal-Mart...Inotof explained the margin realities within her business. The real greed is not in the "mark-ups" of the small guys but the mark-downs of the giants. In my opinion, Wal-Mart is more villain then hero. (See...I don't want to be subtle anymore!)Yes they save you money...today. Often they do it by forcing the manufacture to sell their goods below the manufacturer cost of goods. The seller that agrees to this bath is doing so to maintain shelf presence against competing brands. The buyers for Wal-Mart know that they can be anywhere from 10-50% of a manufacturers sales volume, and as such, are the most feared forces in retail, often dictating unilaterially the price they are willing to pay. Wal-Mart can bulk dump items at a surprising loss in order to drive rivers of humanity into their voracious warehouse and logistics machinery. Furthermore...if these goods don't clear the floor in 30 days they get further marked down for clearance (which lowers the percieved value of the product in all markets, which is why it seems the little guys have "huge" mark-ups...) and/or get shipped back to the manufacturer with expectations of refunds or credit on the next purchase. Like I said...it's a jungle!
my bad compton, didn't mean to sound snotty, i appreciate CBA as well--just had a conversatoion about the posts leaving out facial expressions and vocal inflection. BTW--I be a him not a her :-) Apologies for hijacking this thread to steer it back on course. . . .If I'm a drummer (i am) and i make JUST music without words (aka noise :-P ) does that make it Christian ??
I believe that all music feeds something in mankind, the soul( mind) or spirit. Question about christian music: "does it exalt Jesus Christ , edify the listner, and draw the attention of the listener toward God ?" Many christian artists labels do buisness the same way many christian buisnessmen do thier buisness, in a very non-scriptural (non-christian ethic) way. That places them out of the light.John said (by the Holy Spirit) walk in the light. So the question as to whether christian music (or for that fact almost anything or anyone-ministers included) is christian, is still a condition of the very life and heart of the people who administer it on all levels, from the recording companies on down. I believe in the right to make a profit but once an artist declares that he's a minister(levite as it were), he or she places themselves out side of the charging for thier services way of doing things and into the "living off the free will offerings" of God's people. Unfortunitly even many big name preachers now charge for thier conferences in much the same way these musical groups do, they'll both be judged with what I believe is the severiest of judgements on the day of reckoning.
The real greed is not in the "mark-ups" of the small guys but the mark-downs of the giants. In my opinion, Wal-Mart is more villain then hero. (See...I don't want to be subtle anymore!)Yes they save you money...today. Often they do it by forcing the manufacture to sell their goods below the manufacturer cost of goods. The seller that agrees to this bath is doing so to maintain shelf presence against competing brands. The buyers for Wal-Mart know that they can be anywhere from 10-50% of a manufacturers sales volume, and as such, are the most feared forces in retail, often dictating unilaterially the price they are willing to pay. Wal-Mart can bulk dump items at a surprising loss in order to drive rivers of humanity into their voracious warehouse and logistics machinery. Furthermore...if these goods don't clear the floor in 30 days they get further marked down for clearance (which lowers the percieved value of the product in all markets, which is why it seems the little guys have "huge" mark-ups...) and/or get shipped back to the manufacturer with expectations of refunds or credit on the next purchase. Economics... I'm getting a headache.We were talking about music... right?Krispy
Walmart employs a lot of folks tho... thats kinda good.Krispy
I don't know why I referred to Inotof as "her". I think I sometimes forget whose who around here. :-P Economics... I'm getting a headache.We were talking about music... right?The one is inseparable from the other :-) ...I do admit to shopping from time to time at Sprawl-Mart. :-P But back to music.Can music that has no words still be Christian?The best affirmative example I can think of is Bach. Many of His compositions had no words yet I feel there is a clear divine touch them. It helps to know the life story of the man.So I guess the answer is yes. Words are helpful but not vital. In the end, if we put to much expectation for ministry upon artistic expressions, we break them. Pop songs, even Christian ones, are just consumables like candy bars. There a few healthier all grain candy bars like Steve Camp, Michael Card or the late Rich Mullins, but if we are looking for spiritual health food, I think it's fair to say there are sermons and books that offer a deeper menu. I hope I don't sound unkind towards Christian music...I am only questioning our spiritual demands upon it. Am I making sense?Here is a little testimony to make clear how I feel about Christian music. My little 7 year old girl is starting to show an interest in singing so I wanted to get her some music to encourage her. At one point I showed her a Disney recording to which she politely said. "That sounds great daddy but I really just want music from people who love God." Well said sweetheart. Thanks for setting your dad straight!Blessings,MC
BJ Thomas said once that he was a "Christian Entertainer". There are many such people in the so called Christian music world. I believe there is very few so called Christian singers in the Christian Pop culture today that is actually singing the praises of Jesus.The gospel sells, if you want to get ahead in this world, ride along the gosple train and until you reach your destination of fame and fortune. Many have taken this route have found just that. While others have been found by the LORD while riding it. Music should always cause us to reflect on Christ, that is the central object.I remember being down one day and I was sitting in a restaurant and Simon and Garfunkel was singing that song, Mrs Robinson. I wasn't really listening to it until those words stood out, "Jesus loves you more then you will know". I was encouraged. But does that mean that the song is holy and good, no not at all. It means that God can take anything that is in this world and use it for good. If I told this to another crowd they would all be at the CD shop buying Simon and Garfunkel. But thier heart is not in the right place, they were looking for someone to come along and tell them it's ok to do this or to do that.When Amy Grant went out into the world and to sing for the world the Baptist book store in town here was bringing in her secular material, "Baby Baby". Well I was offended by this, and confronted the store manager only to hear from her, "The kids want it".Where do we draw the line, someday in this world of filthy minds they just might start a Christian Porn magazine. Do we bring this into the christian store because the kids want it?Where do we draw the line?I am going to eat my pancakes.Karl
I love christian music and wish that people would buy more and then they would know that is rubbish and this is good and the good thing about christian music is that you are supporting the scene that they come from. If you buy something like Oasis who smoke drugs and stuff. You are supporting them and if you buy something like matt redman you are helping him to come up with more good stuff. I once was looking on a website for a non christian website and it had I hate jesus all over the website it shocked me and made me realize that it was important what I listened to. As it says what ever is lovely what ever it true think on these things. I used to be quite a music fan the radio being on 24/7 I used to know what was number one before everyone else and realized as Soloman did Vanity Vanity all is Vanity. I had to ask the question was it bringing em closer to god or closer to the evil on and if it was. What would be the best thing for me to do. I had an argument with a christian why christians should listen to the charts and be uptodate with nonchistian music. I realized that it was me who was in the wrong because I relaized that it was not glorifying god. I had a personal struggle and relaized that it was not glorifying to me nor god.The thing that interested me was when I picked up a christian album with a variation of artists and realised that if this was played on the radio there would be no way of varifying this was christian because there was nothing referign to jesus or anything to do with him and that the listener if he was a non christian would not be able to tell the difference. The thing that really was amazing was after semptember the 11th. Michael W smith did a worship album as a veried michael w smith fan I picked it up and found it was a good album. I have bought alot of christian albums since then. MY parents did not play non christian music when I was young and we grew up on the Fathers heart series which comprimised of songs as Purify my heart and Holy and Anointed one and Psalty which i used to know all the words to. I found that when on Sunday Mornings when you priase god all the way thru the week and then on sunday it is easy to. That is why I want people to listen to more of it so that people would have a far bigger vocabulary concerning praise and worship song. I love to worship God.
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