"A recent meeting of ministers associated with the prosperity-preaching Word of Faith branch of charismatic Christianity received a surprise announcement: Pope Francis had sent a message to the conference. It was something of a historic moment."
More here:
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2014/02/we-know-pope-francis
Really strange seeing this.
AD, what is your take on this?
It is amazing that this was done and that such a group as Kenneth Copeland and word-faith ministers are being one of the targets of the catholics for unity.
No matter how congenial a pope can be, catholicism is still catholicism.
This is one of the best books I have read detailing some of the "true" remnant believers throughout Christianity's history. There has always been a true testimony of the Church in every age though at times scattered: http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html
The boast of one church till AD 1000 is false and preys on the ignorance of modern evangelicals.
Dave asked, "AD, what is your take on this?"
From the article: "Francis described the current state of Christianity as one of separated families, by which he meant both biological families and the family of God. It was not lost on the Holy Father that the fractures in Christianity are also fractures between individuals. He asks, "Who is to blame for this separation?” and answers, "We all share the blame. We have all sinned.” Such a statement expresses the fraternity Francis wishes to restore, nothing more, nothing less. He went on to say that his desire is for this separation to end and a communion to begin again."
I am certainly not tarring all Charismatics with the same brush, but we are seeing more and more interest in this false unity.
Its reminds me of Jesus' parable about the tares being bound together in bundles.
Francis did not rush to offer a theological critique of the prosperity gospel although he certainly could have. Instead, he presented the option of moving closer theologically by mutual recognition and embrace.
Mutual recognition and embrace will not move us together. You cannot "embrace" for "embracing's" sake. I will call someone a brother if they show love for my Lord. Upstaging the Lord and taking His place on earth is not demonstrating love for Him. The Pope is an enemy of the Cross of Christ and we would be turning away from Christ by giving the Pope the recognition and embrace he yearns for. We cannot give him something that 1) does not belong to him and 2) is not ours to give. Stepping down from being "Vicar of Christ on Earth" (taking the place of Christ on earth), is a first step.
When people wonder why Evangelicals embrace Francis, they fail to see that Jorge Bergoglio had been connecting with evangelicals through the charismatic movement for quite some time.
True, they have been wooing Evangelicals for decades, now.
There is a way forward together. It’s not easy. But it may just be that we need a man who embodies the spirit of Francis of Assisi.
The RCC likens him to Francis of Assisi because the common people identify with Francis of Assisi as one who turned his back on pomp and circumstance and religious men who oppressed common folk.
This is nothing new. Same old soup, warmed over. Sad to say, flatter and woo some of these Charismatics and they will follow you anywhere. Emotional, feel good people can be easily wooed.
Let us not forget:
The Roman Catholic Agenda Embedded in the Manhattan Declaration
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=270
Take note of the Christian "Leaders" that signed this.
EVANGELICALS & CATHOLICS TOGETHER: THE CHRISTIAN MISSION IN THE THIRD MILLENNIUM
The Catholic-Lutheran Accord
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/article/sorted/01_On_Catholicism/Catholic-Lutheran%20Accord.doc
Pope Benedict’s Denunciation of True Churches
Exposes His Own System
http://bit.ly/1h7VLut
Brothers and sisters, this is just another cog in the machinery that is being put together to form the great whore church. No one can be surprised at the lack of discernment coming from these groups. IHOP would another group who would embrace this kind of unity with the Catholic church. Be assured that their is a counterfeit unity taking place in the world right now amongst those who call themselves " Christian."
The winds of the culture have changed and those of the world will and have changed right along with it. Satan is in the business of isolating and identifying the genuine saints of the world. Those who truly know Jesus will not go along with any attempts at unity outside of truth and they will quickly be labeled the " enemies of peace and reconciliation." Get ready saints, these times are not far off.............bro Frank
Amen, brother Frank. Nothing new. As I mentioned, "same (unsavory) soup as yesterday, warmed over".
All the worldly and false churches will come together.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
They will persecute the true church of God. Religion has always been married to politics (Religious Babylon and Political Babylon) and religion has used the political machine and armies to vanquish their enemies. We have reams and reams of history regarding the murderous relationship between religion and politics.
The book of Revelation reveals the Lamb of God, becoming Victor over religion, over "Babylon the Great."
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
I issue this "disclaimer" :) I am a Pentecostal Christian in the Wesleyan-Holiness tradition and a member of the Church of God denomination. I reject the label "Charismatic" as a meaningless tripe that is used only by charlatans (Word-Faith types), critics of the faith (atheists) who want to sound like they know what they're talking about when they write, or people who just don't know any better. Pentecostal-Holiness belief is not Charismatic belief nor do they share a heritage, in spite of the Strang Communications and Lee Gradys and John C. Wagners of the world's best efforts to cobble one together from a hodge podge stream of deceitful teaching and practice that co-opted the language of Pentecostal-Holiness belief and practice.
The Charismatics can have the RCC. Do what you've always done and you get what you've always gotten. All Charismatics get with RCC is more lofty language to steal from yet another heritage and history, and maybe --- just maybe --- a better taste in clothes and hairstyles. The RCC gains or tries to hold as much of Africa and Asia as possible while letting the multizillionaires of the "leadership" of American Charismania foot the bill. And, for what the Charismatics are getting --- validation, recognition, powerful sales rhetoric and imaging with the "mother Church" --- they'll pay it with a huge smile.
Let us not forget that God inspired a revolt from the RCC. Whatever your thoughts are about the particulars of the conflicting belief sets bearing their names, men like Luther, Calvin, Wycliffe, Menno Simons, Bullinger, and so many more were raised by God in a very narrow window of time and place and for the purpose of wresting away from RCC its self-appointed authority to be the world's arbiter of the Word of God. It is no surprise then that a movement that began in a recognition of the authority of Scripture (Protestant Reformation) would be, in the long course of history, perverted and surrendered to great extent by a "Charismatic" false church that is equally guilty of rejecting the authority of Scripture for its own sets of practices and beliefs.
No one likes to clean their own house, this is just another diversion to help them from doing so. As Brother Greg put it so gracefully "It is amazing that this was done and that such a group as Kenneth Copeland and word-faith ministers are being one of the targets of the Catholics for unity". Seems the world always looks for the worse to produce their case, gives us a lot of prospective on how much the Pope is really paying attention to the God Fearing Churches, just this should speak loud enough to reduce his opinion to a hill of beans. If we all could only know the agendas of these loud voices, some could be muted in a heartbeat.
years ago, as I studied the first three chapters of 1 Corinthians, the Lord caused me to see that the false church would not be just the Catholic church. It will be comprised of representatives from most all major denominational divisions. Leaders have a grave responsibility to fulfill the mandate of Ephesians 4 to be diligent to fulfill the callings that God has placed upon us to bring the body into maturity that it be not swayed by winds of doctrine, but instead grounded in the bedrock of truth, unshakeable, immovable. There is no substitute for a firm foundation in the word of God.We should be so grounded in truth that error is obvious.
Amen, twayneb the false church is also comprised of many in the "Protestant" camp. Religious Babylon, is not just the RCC, but religions all over the world, including protestant religions.
I see many rejoicing over this unity in both sides. But one thing they do not understand that divisions are required, they are God intended. The apostle Paul writes to Corinthians about this.
1 cor 11:19-For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become [r]evident among you.
Similarly Apostle John did not try to unite those who went out from his Church. The apostles have always encouraged divisions.
The idea of having one unified Church that includes all denominations and doctrines is not the Apostle's vision. The unity that Pope speaks here is unscriptural, it is just a worldly unity that people who have some common grounds can unite.
This discussion is locked.
