Prosperity Preachers

WOLVES IN SHEEP CLOTHINGFor such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ . . . (2 Corinthians 11:13).For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect (Matthew 24:24).David Ravenhill said "I’m convinced that the carnal, cunning, conniving, crooked crooks that Jesus drove out of the Temple are still among us today. These modern day moneychangers are forever devising new and deceptive doctrines to defraud God’s people out of His/their money. These masters of deceit have now set up their changing tables throughout the Christian television industry." "Modern Day Money Changers" found at: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=13686 Today there are many prosperity preachers. While I normally do not comment on other peoples "ministries" I thought these articles were rather note worthy. I know very well that posting this could cause a bit of an uproar. Joyce Meyers: http://www.myfortress.org/JoyceMeyer.html Kenneth Copeland: http://www.myfortress.org/KennethCopeland.html Jesse Duplantis: http://www.myfortress.org/JesseDuplantis.html Creflo Dollar: http://www.myfortress.org/CrefloDollar.html Here is just one section of the Joyce Meyers article about her money habits. I wonder what she would have thought of the Apostle Peter who said in the book of Acts "Silver and Gold have I none." Or Jesus who said "The Son of Man has no where to lay his head." : "Joyce Meyer says God has made her rich. Everything she has came from Him: the $10 million corporate jet, her husband's $107,000 silver-gray Mercedes sedan, her $2 million home and houses worth another $2 million for her four children — all blessings, she says, straight from the hand of God..."If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid," Meyer told an audience in Detroit in September. "I'm living now in my reward." Meyer is fond of nice things and is willing to spend for them. From an $11,000 French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters to a $105,000 Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks, it's clear her tastes run more to Perrier than to tap water. The building is decorated with religious paintings and sculptures, and quality furniture. Much of it, Meyer says, she selected herself. A Jefferson County assessor's list offers a glimpse into the value of many of the items: a $19,000 pair of Dresden vases, six French crystal vases bought for $18,500, an $8,000 Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity, two $5,800 curio cabinets, a $5,700 porcelain of the Crucifixion, a pair of German porcelain vases bought for $5,200. The decor includes a $30,000 malachite round table, a $23,000 marble-topped antique commode, a $14,000 custom office bookcase, a $7,000 Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain, a $6,300 eagle sculpture on a pedestal, another eagle made of silver bought for $5,000, and numerous paintings purchased for $1,000 to $4,000 each. Inside Meyer's private office suite sit a conference table and 18 chairs bought for $49,000. The woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband cost the ministry $44,000. Meyer drives the ministry's 2002 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top, valued at $53,000. Her son Dan, 25, drives the ministry's 2001 Lexus sedan, with a value of $46,000. Meyer's husband drives his Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG sedan. "My husband just likes cars," Meyer said. The Meyers keep the ministry's Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet, which Joyce Meyer says is worth $10 million, at Spirit of St. Louis Airport in Chesterfield. The ministry employs two full-time pilots to fly the Meyers to conferences around the world. Security is important to Meyer, who says she has received death threats. She has a division of the ministry dedicated to her safety. Her officers wear pistols; they guard the headquarters' front gate, keeping out anyone but employees and invited guests. The ministry bought a $145,000 house where the security chief lives rent-free to keep him close to the ministry's headquarters. Since 1999, the ministry has spent at least $4 million on five homes for Meyer and her four children near Interstate 270 and Gravois Road, St. Louis County records show. Meyer's house, the largest of the five, is a 10,000-square-foot Cape Cod style estate home with a guest house and a garage that can be independently heated and cooled and can hold up to eight cars. The three-acre property has a large fountain, a gazebo, a private putting green, a pool and a poolhouse where the ministry recently added a $10,000 bathroom." (Article on Joyce Meyers, 11/15/2003, St. Louis Post Dispatch) "It's amazing to me how many people are jealous of the car I drive or the house I live in or the size of my ministry...Don't be jealous of the fact that I fly my own airplane...But you know what I've noticed? I've never had anybody who drives a car like mine be jealous of my car. I've never had any other minister who has an airplane be jealous of my airplane. So you know we're really not mad at what other people have, we're mad because we don't have it!" (Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth") "Oh, shut up! I mean there is not a one of you sitting out there today if you were in full time ministry and you had an opportunity to have your own airplane rather than flying around commercial all of the time that you wouldn't have one too. We are only jealous because we don't have what other people have! And it's a rotten thing on the inside of us that God wants to get out." (Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth") Here is another quote from David Ravenhills article "Modern Day Money Changers: "Stop pandering to these moneychangers. These men and women live like kings while spending your money to buy mansions and jets for themselves. They dine in the finest restaurants, wear the latest designer fashions and then have the audacity to tell you that you can live the same way as long as you give to their ministry. I opened my Bible the other day to Zechariah’s wonderful prophecy concerning the first coming of Jesus, our great and glorious King. Listen to his words; ‘Behold your King is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, humble, and mounted on a donkey, even on a colt the foal of a donkey.’( Zechariah 9:9 ) What a far cry from the televangelist who comes high and mighty and traveling on his own jet! If you are as sick and tired as I am about this waste of God’s money, then for heaven’s sake STOP SUPPORTING THESE PEOPLE. Give your money to your local church. There are tens of thousands of needy missionaries who barely have enough support to keep themselves alive. They are laboring long and hard under some of the most difficult and trying conditions. They would rejoice at the thought of an extra $10-30 dollars a month support. These are the real heroes of whom the world is not worthy. Help put these MONEY LOVING TELEVANGELISTS OUT OF BUSINESS and SAVE ANOTHER MISSIONARY FROM EXTINCTION."Dead while livingR. W. C.

Though I agree with much that is written here- I would hope that on this forum we might discuss how we can become more Christ-like, not how others are becoming LESS Christ-like.I know I have posted on something similar in the past- and I may tend to look at other's faults and everything that is wrong in christendom today (and there is MUCH!) But i am not responsible for them, I am responsible for ME and making sure I am walking the walk. That i am shining the light. That i am not shaming the name of Jesus in any way.Though it is good to have discernment (and we will the more Christ-like we become)Maybe we should concentrate more on where we are lacking and start with ourselves first.(not to mention that we have already discussed this topic many times :)Just a thought :)Surrendered to Him, chanin

Though it is good to have discernment (and we will the more Christ-like we become)Maybe we should concentrate more on where we are lacking and start with ourselves first.Reminds me of something I read somewhere about a mote and a beam....hmmmmmm ;-) In Christ,Ron

Hey deadpreacher,Thanks for the post. Is all that true about Joyce Meyer? Is there any way to verify it?Do you think these verses apply?1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Hi R.W.C. a.k.a. deadpreacher,I certainly am in agreement with you on the condition of prosperity preachers. However, I tend to be more concerned with the content of their message than the content of their homes. Now about how they attained their goods certainly is mentioned in the bible--robbing widows and orphans..etc.I did like your last paragraph though. I would hope and I do believe that you are praying for the salvation of these ministers of a false gospel.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

sermonindex wrote:

When we start to look at others we get depressed and sad because there is much distortion and confusion, but when we look to Jesus what joy and perfection in His presence.Greg, this is so true! maybe not in all of us because I have overcome that, but my wife has not as of yet, but I keep Praying for her to release this to the Lord.

Having no intimate knowledge of these folk, all I can say is WOW! If that is true, it is amazing, half way through the article my mouth droped open. No wonder some of members are a bit cynical about them. America is to big, and has to much money.

Though it is good to have discernment (and we will the more Christ-like we become)Maybe we should concentrate more on where we are lacking and start with ourselves first.I agree with you Chanin. The thought has accured to me many times in my line of work that it doesn't take a degree in medicine to diagnos a cold or fever sometimes even cancer--nearly anyone can point out the problem--it does however take some effort to fix it. I'm reminded of Neh. when the men of Judah and his brothers came and told him the walls where all destroyed. They all wept over it, but we read that only 1 got up and did something about it--he talked to the king of kings. May we all strive to do something about it by talking about these people. . .to out Great King.

I think looking at some of the "Word of Faith"- "Prosperity Preachers" today can give people the idea that all traveling evangelists are rich. That's not true. Most barely make ends meet and alot of us have to work secular jobs in order to provide for our families. Preaching is a way of life and some of us have chosen to speak God's word anywhere any time the door opens without putting a cost or price on it.I've seen real blind people see again and deaf ears opened, personally I'd trade all the millions that I could have had or have to see those things in the lives of people I'm priviliaged to speak to. But like any buisness these people develope a product, i.e.>>books tapes vidoes. Thats where thier money comes from. Meyers takes no money from the conferences, only from the book sales,and other stuff she sells.She gives her resources to anyone who asks free of charge. I don't agree with her teachings but lets get real for a min. If any of you came up with the next Pet Rock and became wealthy beyond your wildest dreams , no one would question you about how you spent your monies as long as you tithed and gave some to the poor. What I see in the church in the prosperity teachings is a gospel that cannot be duplicated in 3rd world countries and that makes it false. How these people spend thier monies and how much they make doesn't concern me, "THIER MESSAGE DOES".

Hi folks, I'm not a theologian by any stretch of the imagination, but I do believe that God does bless His children although not always w/money. He does bless us with family, friends, time, etc. Now regarding prosperity preachers, I heard a very heart breaking message here on SI recently, The Reproach of the Solemn Assembly by David Wilkerson. Well worth the listen.In Christ AloneDave

In reply to the first post:Well, evrything has been pretty much said, I want to add my way of looking at. What I think: We need to focus on God, and not the prosperity of people. Although, a preacher such as Jesse, preaches, that we must first develop in our mind that we are rich and are prosperous. I dont think he ever said that we must look at others prosperity and judge them. What I think the first post said was a judgment. Dont fall into religion. Religion is pure judgment of others. Altho, this may sound like I'm judging of judging, I'm saying what needs to be said, at least what God says. Read the Bible, and you will be fine w/ you properity.As for false preachers, yeah, they are all around us, and more and more of them are around us, but not all of them work through wealth, so watch out, like it says "Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."I remember I was watchin TV along time ago, and I saw this one guy preform all these miracles, yet he said non about God. Such false prophets will be.Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever, heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rockBe wise, build on the rock-Drey ;-)

R.W.C., I agree with your accessment of prosperity theology, in your opening post in starting this discussion.You are right on target!Moreover, nothing undermines the Body of Christ, nor the creditability of the Christian Church in its mission to evangelize the world than prosperity theology.Jake

I will say this, if your witnessing to anyone at all you yourself are preaching prosperity, just by letting someone know what Christ has done for you, unless your life hasn't prospered at all, remember practice what you preach. :-P

What I had said in my last post above was in no way to deny biblical truths concerning prosperity when understood and applied biblically and not experientially.The basis of biblical understanding of prosperity is found most clearly in Deuteronomy 8:3-5 and 16-20 (that I may be as brief as possible. I am not going to post those all verses, you can read them for yourself in your own Bible. What I am about to share will make for more sense to you if you do).If we were to carefully examine those passages we should see that in God's model there are "three features" that are commonly omitted by those who preach a prosperity message.The "first of these" that God allowed His people to be hungry in the wilderness (See Deuteronomy 8:3-5 and 16-20) that He might humble them and test them. The emphasis today, however, is on not suffering, because they claim Jesus suffered for us.The Bible's teaching is not simply that Jesus died for us, but the He calls us to pick up our cross and die with Him.A gospel that does not preach the Cross in its full sense is not the gospel of Jesus.Times of blessing and prosperity in God's economy, both for individuals and for corporate groups, are preceded by times of breaking, testing and moulding. Because of our old nature, unless we are first broken and remoulded, these blessing become grounds for pride.Yet there is practically no talk of this crucial biblical truth in the manipulative preaching of faith - prosperity ministers.They emphasize, not the blessings of the Cross, but rather a quest for blessings without it.They do this to extract money from people in a manner no different to the way the moneychangers of Jesus' day profiteered from the blood of the lamb and hawked their wares in the Temple."Secondly", the message of Moses (in Deuteronomy 8:3-5 and 16-20) must be seen in context of Deuteronomic legislation and the covenant with the Jews.To appropriate these things from the Jews and apply them to the Church is a manifestation of the errors of Replacementism.Even those prosperity preachers who see a prophetic place for Israel still adhere to replacement Theology.These blessings for Israel were wholly dependant on Israel's faithfulness. So, churches and ministries which do not encourage people to carry their crosses, and live a crucified life, are certianly not being faithful, and therefore the covenant promises could nor apply to them in a biblical sense.What replacementism does is to say that the promised blessings of the covenant are for the Church, but the curses are for the Jews, and that would neither be plausible nor scriptural.What we can say is the principles of blessing and cursing found in the Mosiac law can apply to the Church, but the covenant itself cannot.We are told in Hebrews (see Hebrews 7:22; 8:6; 12:24) that we have a new and better covenant. It is on this basis that some prosperity preachers argue: "Since our covenant is better, should it not also include prosperity?" They go on to agrue: "How can it be better of the Jews were promised prosperity in this world, but we are not?"First of all, I would note that the Law could not give salvation, only the New Covenant of grace could do that.Secondly, Israel had a Theocratic society the Church does not (despite the ramblings of reconstructionists and dominionists).Furthermore note that even the promises of prosperity in the Old Testament were not set out along the lines that the prosperity preachers would have us to believe.This brings us to the "third difference": the blessings and prosperity set out in the Mosaic Law were NEVER for an individual, but for a nation.The blessings would come if the nation was faithful, but they are not guaranteed for individuals (as so much of Ecclesiates, Proverbs, Job and Psalms makes clear).What we can agrue for is an application of the principles; but there is no formula to be found anywhere in the Word of God along the lines that the prosperity preachers deceive people into believing.We can have some sympathy for reconstructionists and restorationists as individuals (although not as leaders) on the basis that their motives may not be wrong, although their doctrines certianly are wrong. But this cannot be generally said for faith - prosperity preachers. While many of them may have began as honest servants of the Lord, it is now difficult to see them as anything less than a ring of swindlers, heretics and confidence trickters out to pervert the Word of God in order to put money into their own pockets. That is how the world sees them, and this is how Christians ought to see them also.Not only do they preach another gospel, but most of them are doing it for their own aggrandizement as is evident from their self indulgent, opulent lifestyles.Jake

OK, can someone please give me one Pastors name that does not teach prosperity to some extent, just one.If your Pastor is not teaching some sort of prosperity, I would be finding another home.prosperity:The condition of being successful or thriving.I am thriving in the Lord myself, and I am a whole lot more successful I see it in my fruits.Deu 29:9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do. Books & CD's and etc. make the so called prosperity preachers rich it's sure not your tithe, unless you personally are giving the Pastor a million or two each year and I doubt that.I just think that some are just jealous of anyone that make more money than they do period and they really need to work on that. :-P