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What is worldliness?

sermonindex Mar 25, 2014

So here is a question. What exactly is worldliness?

I often hear much about how it is evil to love the world, participate in worldly things but I often find that this is not defined very precisely.

The go to scripture here is 1 John 2:15 (among others), but even here is not exactly clear what it means by loving the world.

I once heard a definition of worldliness that was something like ‘behaviours , desires, beliefs and systems in the wrold that are contrary to the kingdom of God’ which seems to make a lot of sense.

However, others (I’m thinking older preachers and writers from two or three centuries back) almost seem to imply that to enjoy any aspect of life (other than those that are overtly ‘spiritual’) is worldly.

So, what do folks think?

H
Heydave Mar 25, 2014

It is quite simple really.
It is not a list of 'things' that I or someone else decides is wrong. It is simply this....


"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."
(1 John 2:15-16).

So the word of God defines worldliness as the LUST of the flesh, the LUST of the eyes and the PRIDE of life.
All these are issues of the heart and who is on the throne of our lives. Do we love God or something else? That is the test of what is worldliness.

Some consider participating on Facebook is 'worldly' and it could well be true for them if it involves the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes or pride of life. However for others it involves none of those things but is purely a tool for Godly communication. So it impossible to give a list of worldliness because some of the things you may approve would be worldliness to me and some of the things that to me are worldly would be OK for you.

Each of us will give account to our own Master. We need to be careful that we know and check our own hearts and who has the rule there. Be careful that just because a brother (even a very spiritual one) approves of something, that does not mean it is OK for you! Also be careful that because you know something is wrong for you that you don't put that onto everyone else.

T
TMK Mar 25, 2014

I like Dave's answer. To go any further results in legalism.

P
proudpapa Mar 25, 2014

RE: ///I like Dave's answer. To go any further results in legalism.///

yes, good answer

S
Sidewalk Mar 25, 2014

I concur with Heydave and the others. Loving God displaces the love of the world, legalism just masks the symptoms and focuses my eyes on people less spiritual than myself. Been there, a hopeless exercise in futility!

Paris Reidhead addresses John's description of the world's sin problem- lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life by connecting the three main old testament deities. Baal is the god of possessions and things, Astoreth the goddess of carnal sin, and Molech the god of pride.

Naturally I cannot direct you to the exact message where he talks about this, but it was a fascinating study and listening to Reidhead is a faithbuilder anyway with all his stories and fresh wisdom on well known passages of scripture.

sermonindex Mar 25, 2014

going a bit further...

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." (1Jn 2:15)

1. What does John mean by "the world”?

2. What are "the things of the world”?

3. What does it mean to "love” the world?

4. Why is it that "if anyone loves the world the love of the Father is not in him”?

5. Does John mean that anyone (a Christian?) who "loves the world”, the love of the Father is not in Him?

6. If the "love of the Father is not in someone" will they abide forever or pass away?

"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." (1Jn 2:17)

7. Is there a contrast between "passeth away” and "abides forever”?

T
TMK Mar 25, 2014

I think it is helpful to put the word "system" behind the word "world" in this context.

If a person is more attached to the world system than God's system (kingdom) they are in trouble. If a person is not abiding in the vine, from where are they drawing life?

H
Heydave Mar 25, 2014

Just-in, I would suggest that the answer to your 7 questions relating to verses 15 and 17 are found in verse 16.
John says these three things (lust of flesh, lust of eyes, pride of life) are what drives the world and are not of the Father.

sermonindex Mar 25, 2014

I will take a stab at the first one.

What does John mean by the "world".

I don't think John is talking about the created world of mountains and meadows and valleys or oceans, lakes and streams, physics, gravity, . Surely, he is not talking about animals or birds. Laws of motion, thermodynamics or gravity.

And, he is not talking about humanity, the world of men.

I believe he is talking about the world-system, the fallen
world order. The world and it's systems (religious, philosophical, social, economical, political, educational, cultural). All these and more comprise the world system of evil and they stand diametrically opposed to the Kingdom of God.

I know that won't go over really well with many people. Telling that all the sub-systems of this world are all part of an evil, fallen system.

S
savannah Mar 26, 2014

Col 3:1,2 "If ye then be raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth." [Worldliness is the antithesis]

Mattew 6:19-34 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thy eye be single, thy whole body will be full of light. But if thy eye be evil, thy whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee is darkness, how great is that darkness! No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Therefore I say to you, Be not anxious for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than food, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by anxious care can add one cubit to his stature? And why are ye anxious for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field how they grow? they toil not, neither do they spin? And yet I say to you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clotheth the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore be not anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or what shall we drink? or, with what shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
Therefore be not anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be solicitous for the things of itself. Sufficient to the day is its own evil.

James 4:1-5 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even from your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

John 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Ecclesiastes 1:13,14 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this grievous labor hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised with it. I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

Ecclesiastes 1:16-18 I communed with my own heart, saying, Lo, I have come to great estate, and have gained more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: and my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.
And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Luke 14:26-35 If any man cometh to me, and hateth not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he hath sufficient to finish it? Lest perhaps after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Or what king going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an embassy, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whoever he is of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. Salt is good: but if the salt hath lost its savor, with what shall it be seasoned? It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill, but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Worldliness says, "Too much of this Jesus!"
Devotion to Jesus says, "Too much of this world!"

sermonindex Mar 26, 2014


Could they be created things of the earth? Maybe material objects or products? What about people and relationships? Or are they attitudes and desires of the fallen world-order?

Are the "things of the world" some of these, all of these or none of these?

sermonindex Mar 26, 2014

In Appolus' thread on the God Gene

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=51900&forum=35

ZekeO wrote, "To think that some parents will abort a baby purely on the grounds of it being downs, tragic!!".

This superficial mindset of not valuing children because of Downs or whatever else is really an attitude of the fallen world system which is another manifestation of worldliness.

Worldliness is sin and exposes that one is alienated from the Father.

The love of the Father cannot be in you when the love of the world (system) is in you. This is also a manifestation that a person is dwelling in the kingdom of darkness and has not been "translated into the kingdom of His dear Son", or hardened their heart.

It is the same thing with World Vision or more aptly Worldliness Vision. They are operating from a fallen world mindset (worldliness) so allowing same-sex couples is just an extension of the fact that they are dwelling in the kingdom of darkness.

G
ginnyrose Mar 26, 2014

Since there is such a variance is describing worldliness I suggest you ask the LORD for discernment to teach you.

If you feel a sense of doubt, question in what you are about to do, and there appears to be no logical reason to do or not do so, it just may be the Holy Spirit is giving you a warning to leave it alone or abstain. Scripture also teaches us that one is to abstain from all appearances of evil. Too many folks have had their discernment in this area clouded by past indulgence in it.

I suggest you ask the Holy Spirit to teach you and be open to what he is telling you. One way you can discern whether you are closed to it is when you argue with Him.

I still wonder about a certain issue....how can one practice Matthew 18:15-18 successfully...Am I arguing - I wonder...

R
romanchog Mar 26, 2014

I like to use this quote as a good measure of this:

"He loves Thee too little, who loves anything together with Thee, which he loves not for Thy sake." St Augustin

I concur with the answers given here, that this can turn into legalism and is to be lived by a leading of the Holy Spirit.

sermonindex Mar 26, 2014

True, to a legalist, everyone is worldly who is not just like him/her.

3. What does it mean to love the world?

Now that we know what the world (system) is, many are attracted by it. Probably all of us at one time or another. This in and of itself is not a sin, but allowing the attraction to seduce you, is. The enemy attracts us with the world system hoping that we may find pleasure in it and then give ourselves to it. When we give ourselves to any facet of the world system we are allowing ourselves to be brought into union with the world. This is what it means to love the world and this is idolatry.

Only the Holy Spirit can make this application real to each of us. There is no set of rules or beliefs that we can go by. We are to walk by the Spirit, by His life and this is precisely why Christianity is not a belief system, but a LIFE we live by. Other religions have a belief system, but we do not, we have a PERSON who leads us and guides us and lives right inside us.

L
Lysa Mar 27, 2014

HeyDave wrote:
It is not a list of 'things' that I or someone else decides is wrong. It is simply this....

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."
(1 John 2:15-16).

So the word of God defines worldliness as the LUST of the flesh, the LUST of the eyes and the PRIDE of life.
All these are issues of the heart and who is on the throne of our lives. Do we love God or something else? That is the test of what is worldliness.

Some consider participating on Facebook is 'worldly' and it could well be true for them if it involves the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes or pride of life. However for others it involves none of those things but is purely a tool for Godly communication. So it impossible to give a list of worldliness because some of the things you may approve would be worldliness to me and some of the things that to me are worldly would be OK for you.

Each of us will give account to our own Master. We need to be careful that we know and check our own hearts and who has the rule there. Be careful that just because a brother (even a very spiritual one) approves of something, that does not mean it is OK for you! Also be careful that because you know something is wrong for you that you don't put that onto everyone else.


Simple and to the point, brother!

And TMK said that anything else is legalism and that is true as well!!

God bless,
Lisa

sermonindex Apr 1, 2014

4. Why is it that "if anyone loves the world the love of the Father is not in him”?

Let's see what the Word tells us:

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

G
ginnyrose Apr 1, 2014

I have been reading Hosea; have been profoundly impressed with the concepts written there - the sins Hosea warned the Jews about. If I would not know any better I could think he was writing to the western church..

The dominate issue Hosea was dealing with was immorality. Once you understand it is becomes revealing to us how the devil will use it to trap people.

Consider these verses: (NASB)

2:2b: And let her put away her harlotry from her face
And her adultery from between her breasts,

Opps! lots of females running around here is Missippi with breasts exposed...

4:12:12 "My people consult their wooden idol, and their diviner’s wand informs them;For a spirit of harlotry has led them astray, And they have played the harlot, departing from their God.

Is it just an happenstance that with the promotion of the occult that there is a proliferation of immorality?

5:4:4 "Their deeds will not allow them To return to their God. For a spirit of harlotry is within them, And they do not know the LORD."

I suspect this is why we are not seeing revival is because the spirit of harlotry has overtaken 'religious' peoples.

6:6: "For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings."

9:4b: "Their sacrifices will not please Him."

It appears they were still offering sacrifices - doing religious rituals but this is not acceptable to God. God wants our loyalty. Being loyal means staying true to His will.

Advertisers use sex to sell whatever they want to market. If this is not the spirit of harlotry, I do not know what it is.

Since I noticed this term "spirit of harlotry" the LORD is showing me that this is what is active in the world all around us - demonstrated by the gross immorality via dress whose designs are to entice, seduce not cover.

This is ONE aspect of worldliness - it involves the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life. All encompassing.

God help us...!

G
ginnyrose Apr 2, 2014

After posting this, sleeping over it, I remember another sin that has become all pervasive in society.

It is the sin of lying.

Ever confront it?

My observation is that it raises its head more likely when people get angry and the things they will say then! When confronted later, they will deny saying it...

It is as though anger shuts down the memory where there can be no recall...or, else, they are lying - again. Anger and lying - where you have one the other resides. It is demonic.

Or, how about news reports. Slanted, not objective. Is this how Christian people view life? How honest are we in our reporting of 'whatever'?

Are we honest when confronted? Or, are we in denial?

These are fundamental issues that reside in the heart of man that when expressed where the rubber meets the road becomes extremely difficult to deal with. Trust is destroyed because there likely would have been betrayal somewhere along the line. Reliability has been destroyed. But these people can be ever so religious and they do a fine job of covering up with their smooth talk.

Wonder what would happen if Christian folks were to confess the sins of anger, lying? Might see a revival.

Worldliness is more then watching porn, and such - it goes a whole lot deeper. Being fascinated by the entertainments promoted by sinful society is merely a symptom of a deeper sin issue.

M
MrBillPro Apr 2, 2014

In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:6

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