Hanging out with prostitutes, homosexuals and thieves!

hey pij, I get to do this on an almost daily basis. I get to shine the light in the darkest places, if there is any such thing...isn't it all dark? lol.But it's not about doing...it's about being. Not doing church in the park, being the church in the park. So many talk of stopping attending a traditional church, with a building, a pastor, church checkbooks, etc. But then they go start one in their homes and doing mostly the same thing after a while. Nothing wrong with traditional or home churches in the least! But so many are so upset and get so frustrated with their pastor(s), their elders, the lack of love for the homeless, or the affluence, or the choir robes, or the color of the carpet in the foyer...and so they leave and start or join something somewhere else.I tell people that move around alot because of problems with people or work or church...It doesn't matter if you move away and start all over because in 2 or 3 or 4 months you're going to wind up with the same problems because one thing remains constant, no matter where you go...there you are.It's an interesting thing being the church and then having the church wonder what to do with a ministry that hangs out with 'those' people. Many times we forget that such were some of us.But then there's the sheep that are coming that need to be cared for and watched over . But the flip side of the same coin is what about leaving the 99 and going after the 1.More later. Thanks for posting this. Been thinking about this alot in the last year.

I don't make it a habit of hanging around with or socializing with these people, but if God places one in my path "and I will know" I will plant some seeds and let God do the watering. We should Love everyone equally but it is different to Love someone and then hang around with them, If I hang around with someone that cusses like a sailor for a month, I will probably be doing the same, so I choose not to hang around with them and just pray for them. It's tough sometimes especially for me because I am a very friendly person that likes to talk to everyone and it's easy for me to get caught up into a friendship so I really have to be careful about everyone I come across in my travels. So bottom line what do we do? well I will tell you what I do is I listen to God to give me instructions on what to do and if I heard wrong or it was not supposed to be the Lord will bring me out of it, I just feel personally that God would rather for me to make some sort of effort sometimes than none at all and if I make a wrong decision well he knows my heart.

It seems the traditional, fundamental church in many ways is focusing on how to keep "out of the world" at the expense of going to where the people are and loving them into the kingdom!Perhaps, but I'll show you one traditional fundamental church that is doing just the opposite on a regular basis, where the pastor frequently preaches about reaching out to "the untouchables" and bringing them into our spiritual hospital (church).It's a church that sends out its busses regularly to the homeless shelters in downtown (45 miles away) to bring back all who will come. Those who come are fed, and witnessed to, stay for the evening services along with the rest of the church, then invited to our clothing ministry if they have a need, offered free Bibles if they want one, and then invited to return as they are preached to on the way home.One such man, after hearing the sermon and getting saved, confided in the pastor that he was on the run from the law. He was gently convinced to turn himself in, which he did, and he is now a part of our regular, weekly prayers in the church as he serves his time.I would be mortified and ashamed to be a part of any church that turns people away because they aren't dressed right, or look like they might a disruption to the services. That's not Christ's spirit at all, but is the spirit of the Pharisees who knew the Devil as their father.www.valleybaptistmesa.orgIt's not perfect (what church is?), but there's no doubt that our pastor, his staff, and the members are people who love sinners

I would be mortified and ashamed to be a part of any church that turns people away because they aren't dressed right, or look like they might a disruption to the services. That's not Christ's spirit at all, but is the spirit of the Pharisees who knew the Devil as their father.It's not perfect And A "BIG AMEN!" on that statement!And not it sure would not be perfect if I were to join. :-o

pij wrote: Saturday nights restaurants and bars are filled with people. Who is reaching them? I tried this once but apparently was not my calling because my eyes started to wonder away from my mission, so I had to give that up, you have to be a very strong and determined and called to try this, Trust Me! :-D

"Jesus never went anywhere he wasn't invited to go". And when he went He preached the gospel using alot of different object lessons, parables and teachings. He never lost sight of the ultimate mark which was the Kingdom of Heaven. Reaching into the lives of the lost and having fellowship with them is 2 totally different things.Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify Your Father in Heaven.

Hi Bro. Josh,It doesn't matter if you move away and start all over because in 2 or 3 or 4 months you're going to wind up with the same problems because one thing remains constant, no matter where you go...there you are.This is a good point. It's an interesting thing being the church and then having the church wonder what to do with a ministry that hangs out with 'those' people. Many times we forget that such were some of us.You are so right here and this has been laboring on my heart for about 3 months now DAY AND NIGHT. This is another one of many of my concerns with the message of repentance and holiness. Do we preach a Gospel that could reach those who were totally submurged in Sin? What about people who I have met in Jails that had children by 3 or 4 different women? Or Women that have been married in some cases 9 times? I know of a woman like this. When we tell these people to repent- what do we mean to say? What direction do we give them? How on earth could a person minister sort such a thing out? They are in impossible circumstances. what I am trying to say is, they cannot repent in such a way as to go back and make everything right. No matter what they do trying to repent they appear to have not done the right thing in repentance. The thing I see then is that the Holy Ghost works it out in their life and then someone comes along with another word of repentance and starts telling them to do more and more if they really 'love Jesus.' Repentance preachers are trying to be the Holy Ghost in cases and it is causing havoc in peoples lives. There are some holiness churches Bro. Josh that if one of these type of people were to get saved they would not be welcome in their church. I have read their core doctrines. Yet, someone can bomb out on drugs and nearly die of cirossis of the liver and if they get saved they get the right hand of fellowship. A person could kill 3 people brutally, get saved, and have a ministry when and if you get out of prison. Yet, when the sin is of a sexual nature there is no Gospel that seems to be able to reach those folks to the satisfaction of man. Homosexuality, harlotry, etc. are sins that devestate lives. We meet them on the streets all the time in homeless ministry. These people's lives are wrecked! Wasn't it Ravenhill that said that we had better have a Gospel that could reach these folks? Something to the effect they couldnt hear a 'flip Gospel'- they needed to hear the real deal. Where would some of these people even begin to get their life right? I know you meet folks like this all the time also and wondered if you would care to speak to how you deal with these type of folks. God Bless,-Robert

It's not perfect (what church is?), but there's no doubt that our pastor, his staff, and the members are people who love sinnersHi Angyl,That is the key right there; do we love sinners? Do we want them to be saved and come to Christ or do we set a bar so high that they could never attain to grace. There are places where we minister that from week to week we wonder if they are growing in Christ or not. Yet, we persevere and keep ministering to them. Praise God that there are folks out there like your church that are really trying to do the works of Christ! God Bless,-Robert

Charles Spurgeon Said:"If sinners be dammed, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. If they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees. Let no one GO there UNWARNED and UNPRAYED for."

pij wrote:I think the problem is we are still expecting to "bring sinners" to our church to get them saved, which I'm not against but I can't think of one example where Jesus invited someone to the synagogue. What I do read is that the religous were angry with him for drinking wine and eating with the outcasts of society. Saturday nights restaurants and bars are filled with people. Who is reaching them? "The Son of man cam eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." Matthew 11:19 KJVPij,I think that anyone who is serious about reaching the lost, must go where they are. Myself, I am a sales man in the tool industry, which puts me amongst the 'dregs of the earth' on a daily basis. I also go out to a local university, feeding resident students, where I mix with more 'cultured sinners'. All this with a view to muster up the courage to start open air ministry.It's good that you're raising this issue, as it needs to be raised, in the body of Christ, however, you may find that you're preaching to the converted here.

One thing to consider;If God tells someone to go and hand out here or there they should by all means go and follow orders – regardless of appearance. BUT, this can also be a trick of the enemy used to get believers separated from the flock and surrounded by bad influence. If someone feels called to do this they must remain honest about where they are and as soon as temptation grows out of hand they must leave the place for a while to “recharge”. Also, and I am not saying this to any one here, but sometimes we hold a little piece of the world in our hearts with out fully turning everything over to Jesus Christ, and it can sometimes be a longing created in our minds from this little “reserve” in our hearts justified by the appearance of concern for others. I have recently experienced temptation and noticed that in my heart of hearts I will rebuke the tempting spirit and woo it back at the same time.If anyone feels lead to do a ministry like this you should let other believers know what you are doing so that they can pray for you and or hopefully go with you – i.e. “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”Remember, even Jesus took his disciples with him to these places.God Bless you in your endeavors.

Hello all,So much in my heart. So many excellent points, encouragements, truths, healthy warnings to pray about and put into practice, to allow to be incepted and nurtured and birthed through us, His Body. After all didn't our Lord say, "Wisdom (the practical outworking of knowledge) is known by her children"?I don't want to write a book here, that gets tedious. But the Lord has taught me alot over the last few years (I know there are far more wiser than me in these areas, and I am by no means a pioneer in street ministry, only one who is desiring to stand in the ways, and see, and asking for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and I shall find rest for my soul...I want to be willingly obedient, as we all should, whatever 'way' He might have for each of us. We're not called to follow each other, we're called to follow Jesus and the leading of His Spirit in accordance with the truth of His word.I would like to keep this thread going because I think there is alot of wisdom to be shared with the size of the body that feeds and grows and gets pruned here.And I would like to answer some of the excellent points that have been brought up, and like to hear what you all have to share, as the Lord leads.Prayerfully,

Hey All, I was reading through the posts again and was wondering where you were picking up on the idea of people going where they weren't invited and where that was said? (i.e. Bars, etc).Sorry, maybe I missed something? Thanks for the help.

Here's where I came up with that saying and why. pj wrote about going to resturant - bars to lead people to the Lord. I do believe its ok to stand out side of these establishments and ingage the people though the preaching and tract distribution, but to enter into an establishment with out being asked is wrong. I was just using an observation about Jesus' life and ministry that shows He never went to the publicans and sinnners homes without an invite. When He was invited it was used as an occassion to reach the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew- Zach- ect... Other than that He allowed for the Holy Spirit to draw the people to Him and then He taught the people and healed them and delivered them.

While I don't subscribe to going street witnessing alone, I do believe that God'll give you another person to go with. However has anyone considered the possibility of different types of ministries--2 brothers in the Lord called them selves "mall missionaries" and used to frequent the mall and pass out tracts. I know of sisters who when they go for thier groceries to feed thier families, they pray and ask God to lead them to those who need Jesus. The testomonies are wonderful to hear.The bottom line is this, even though street evangelism is a good work, we are called to BE Jesus where we are daily in our lives, at the malls, work, school, in our neighborhoods, in life. When we walk out the front door we should be a ready vessel for the Holy Spirit's use. Then hell will tremble. I know sooo many wonderful christians who simply live Jesus in thier world that are much closer to him than I ever was when I was witnessing on the streets in my early years, it really humbles me. A life lived is a better gospel preached than a message just preached, but combine the 2 and you have power! God Bless Bro. Daryl