The King and the Kingdom: Are they a threat to the present rulers and authorities?

When Daniel was told it was against the law to pray to God, he prayed anyhow (Daniel 6:10). When Meshach, Shadrach, and Abed-nego were commanded to bow to Nebuchadnezzar's 90-foot golden statue, they broke the king's law by refusing to bow (Daniel 3:18). When Herod ordered the 3 wise men to return with information regarding the whereabouts of the Christ child, they didn't return. It takes a good man to break laws made by bad men. Romans 13:1-3 commands believers to obey the "higher powers" as long as the rulers are a terror to evil works, and not to good. God is the highest power. Acts 5:29 plainly states... "We ought to obey God rather than men."

I said this on another thread, and I am still sticking to it. As Christians, our true citizenship is not on this earth. (Philippians 3:20) Jesus' Kingdom is not of this earth. (John 18:36) Jesus was put to death by people who had "no king but Caesar." (John 19:15) And when you place the demands of the kingdoms of this world ahead of the Kingdom of God, you violate the First Commandment.

Ezekiel 33:6 teaches that God will hold the watchman accountable if he fails to warn of the impending doom. If a Christian swims with the current of his state-worshipping culture, and is in willful denial of coming dangers, God will hold him accountable.

In short, if a Christian believes he should do everything his earthly rulers say, he is brain dead.

One time - in modern times - people were commanded to bow down to an image. Christians debated what to do but then they remembered Shadrach, Meshach and Abendego and took lessons. They did not bow, they stayed away contrary to gov decree. And the officials left them alone. God was with them and still is. But they were also prepared to pay the price - whatever that was.

One cannot predict how God will act when one obeys the LORD with faced with these dilemmas. All God wants is obedience.

This question would be for all the folks that totally agree that we should submit to all authorities over us. If our President called you up today, and told you to go throw your new born into the river would you? In my opinion if you would not, you are a hypocrite. See this is one of the issues we have here on SI, we have folks coming into these threads that have strong convictions on their opinions on scripture, but are their convictions to impress, puff-up their knowledge of the word? The "real" test is how would they hold up under a test of their own opinions/preaching of the word.

1. In which way was the Early Church living that they manifested to the Romans they were a threat? How exactly were they living out "another kingdom" and "another King"? In America we talk about another kingdom and another King, but we don't seem to be a threat to the present "king" and "kingdoms", because we get along just fine right beside them. An undoubtedly, there are many laws on the books that are not God honoring at all and Christians arguably should not be obeying. The Bible says,

"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

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I believe those early Christians were sharing the gospel of JESUS and living a life that shown such a bight light that the darkness around them hated it. If you or I are sharing with others that the sin they are living in will lead them to destruction they will do all they can to get rid of you. You mentioned "many laws on the books that are not GOD honoring at all and Christians should not be obey?" what laws are you thinking of specifically?

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2. Does anyone think that Paul went awry of God when he appealed for justice as a Roman citizen? Was he making provision for the flesh?

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I find it so interesting that so many pull this one out as a means to support being involved in this worlds government. I don't have any other thoughts on that verse just find it interesting. Are there any other verses that go on from there to show us that Paul was involved in the government of his time? Just wondering

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3. What are your thoughts on how the Early Church would be living in America, today manifesting the King and the Kingdom? Would they get along just fine with the present rulers and authorities? Which decrees, rules, laws would they find it difficult to comply with?

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I believe the early CHURCH, those who were truly following JESUS would be doing the same thing now as they did then. Sharing JESUS, living daily one to another and submitting their lives unto the LORD. I believe they would be praying for those who are lost in this world including those in authority over them.

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by just-in on 2014/4/18 9:07:37

Another question to add to the list:

In America, 18 year old young men, by law have to sign up for Selective Service.

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This is a very good questions. I have three adult sons who have registered for the draft as is required of them by law to do so. They have no issue with registering as it does not interfere with their walk with JESUS. Now if the draft should come into activation they would resist that law to go and kill as it would interfere with their walk with JESUS. While submitting to the first does not conflict with their walk, submitting to the second would.

The draft is a good question but in truth anyone born in the United States has already been registered, a social security number is given to each child when they are born.
In fact in order to claim your child as a dependent you must supply a valid social security number.

Interesting thoughts
God bless
maryjane

Edit: Oh having been a long time Nevada resident I will say that there is a lot more then the press is telling to this story. I will also say that I pray for calm heads, and that the truth will come out in the court systems and not with killing.

by MrBillPro on 2014/4/18 9:25:32

This question would be for all the folks that totally agree that we should submit to all authorities over us. If our President called you up today, and told you to go throw your new born into the river would you? In my opinion if you would not, you are a hypocrite. See this is one of the issues we have here on SI, we have folks coming into these threads that have strong convictions on their opinions on scripture, but are their convictions to impress, puff-up their knowledge of the word? The "real" test is how would they hold up under a test of their own opinions/preaching of the word.

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Greetings MrBill

We are to obey and submit to the government so long as it does not conflict with our walk with JESUS. Throwing a child of any age into a river I am pretty sure would conflict so I do not consider myself a hypocrite for not complying should such a degree be given. If the laws that are required of me do not interfere then I believe the WORD tells us we are to submit.

I said in another thread I do not like "what if" situations but I do pray often that I would be faithful to HIM and stand firm on the ROCK OF CHRIST JESUS in all times. I do pray often that I would cling to HIM. I think about how many saints over the years were given the choice to renounce JESUS or die....I pray by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT that in that time my words would prove to action!! As I am sitting here today I do not trust my own heart but I do trust KING JESUS and not HE would not fail me. I think that is why is its so important to be found in HIM daily and to cling to Him always.

God bless
maryjane

MaryJane...I said in another thread I do not like "what if" situations but I do pray often that I would be faithful to HIM and stand firm on the ROCK OF CHRIST JESUS in all times.

Mary the "what if" was just that, but can also be used to test someones faithfulness of their own preaching. Sometimes we have to use "what if's" even if we don't like them to bring out our true faithfulness, to our opinions of the word. There is no well maybe, or maybe not if your going to preach it, you should practice it.

by MrBillPro on 2014/4/18 10:01:09

MaryJane...I said in another thread I do not like "what if" situations but I do pray often that I would be faithful to HIM and stand firm on the ROCK OF CHRIST JESUS in all times.

Mary the "what if" was just that, but can also be used to test someones faithfulness of their own preaching. Sometimes we have to use "what if's" even if we don't like them to bring out our true faithfulness, to our opinions of the word. There is no well maybe, or maybe not if your going to preach it, you should practice it.

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Greetings MrBill

I have been thinking much on your reply since reading it last night. You mentioned that "what if's" can be used to test someones faithfulness of their own preaching? Who exactly would be testing whom in this case?
I only ask because the BIBLE tells us we don't have tomorrow so not to worry about it. Matthew 6:34
34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

I can tell you that at this moment I believe and have faith that JESUS will give me all that I need to stand firm in HIM if I was asked to denounce HIM as LORD, but I don't dwell on that because it has never happened in my life. I have not had someone hold a gun to my head and demand I renounce JESUS. I can tell you I trust HIM but since I do not have tomorrow I am told not to worry about such a thing that might happen at some future date. I am instructed to live and walk with HIM daily and that is what I seek to do.

For me "what if's" are pointless because I can sit here all day and tell you what I would do and wouldn't do but then that would just be me. When Peter faced the Pharisees he was given the words to speak by the HOLY SPIRIT. I believe its safe to assume he didn't plan what he would say if that situation came about.
Luke 12:11-12
11 "Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say. 2 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

I do believe persecution is coming but my faith to stand is not found in myself or my own words but rather in HIM alone.

Thanks for sharing your heart with me on this topic.

God bless
maryjane

I am responding to MJ post but not specifically to MJ but to all.
RE: ///I can tell you that at this moment I believe and have faith that JESUS will give me all that I need to stand firm in HIM if I was asked to denounce HIM as LORD///

With the exception of a North Korea or China etc. take over of the entire West, I doubt that persecution is going to any time soon come by way of being asked "to denounce HIM as LORD"
I feel rather assured that the near coming persecution is more likely to come by way of : refusal to take the mark.
Obama Care and new vaccination mandates are paving the road. Wake up ! Wake up !

Thanks MJ for your response, I appreciate it and respect it.
God Bless
Mr. Bill

HI bear,

bear wrote : ///PP you have read mpre of the Anabaptists than I. Did they not live out that Sermon on the Mount kingdom reality? Was this not what got them in hot water with the state and church?///

The early Anabaptist where persecuted by the catholics and protasant for several reasons but namely One : refusal to Baptize there infants and because they rebaptized themselves upon true conversion.

It seems that they could openly confess the name of Jesus without persecution, the persecution seems to have came because they where led by there Christ imputed convictions instead of the established religious rules of the day. Like wise I believe that this will be why the true remanent is fixing to be persecuted. ((hense the point of my previous post.))
The others will be chanting rom:13 etc.

RE: ///Police brutality on innocent Americans is already taking place and the militarising of the police has been in full-swing for awhile.///

That is it, we are going to see more and more cases such as Nevada pop up, some may be staged but most are probably going to be stratigic buttons being pushed by those they feel will give the over reactive response they want, so as to reprogram the military and general publics opinion of such sterotypes.

Another point of concern It seems that the Tommy Nelson/ Majior General Robert Dees type of military men are already being offended out, so as to kill the once well established conscience that the military had as not to turn on its own people.